HorseshoeHermit
20% accurate as usual, Morty
Well there's only 3 or so transhuman civics in each category, and not all of them have this conceptual problem.
Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)
- Thread starter strategyonly
- Start date
@Dancing Hoskuld while I was making modmod with rescaled latitude limits for space map, I filtered out used values for all latitudes.
Count of used latitudes:
I wonder why some latitudes were used only once.
You can find all those if you open notepad++ and use find in files option for *.xml files.
Latitude>
How does latitude limits work for buildings?
If building has max/min latitude of 50, then it is equivalent of min/max latitude of -50 too.
This means I have to redo building latitude limits - that is add lower bounds, as symmetry is broken on Kation's spacemap when it comes to latitudes.
If scaling is changed from -90/90 to -90/-39 (space map), then it would be asymmetric...
For "warm" buildings rescaling is no problem.
---------- -39
Can't exist
------- -50
Can exist
-------- -70
Can't exist
-------- -90
Just need to use no absolute latitudes tag (bLatitudeAbs).
IMaxLatitude of -50 and iMinLatitude of -70
But how to make something like this ("cold" buildings):
---------- -39
Can exist
------- -50
Can't exist
-------- -70
Can exist
-------- -90
Just simply use iMaxLatitude of -70 and iMinLatitude of -50 in this case?
It appears bLatitudeAbs can't be used with buildings.
This means I can't turn off symmetry of latitudes.
I guess I'll just leave removed latitude restrictions for buildings and map resources.
That is only spawn infos are going to be rescaled, that is for separate modmod.
Now this is even worse....
What is difference between spawning zones of those two creatures?
Is first one spawning between 60 to 25 (N) and in -25 to -60 (S) latitudes?
Is second one spawning exactly between 0 and -40 (S) latitudes?
<SpawnInfo>
<Type>SPAWN_EAGLE_BALD_NATIVE</Type>
<UnitType>UNIT_EAGLE_BALD</UnitType>
<iMinLatitude>25</iMinLatitude>
<iMaxLatitude>60</iMaxLatitude>
</SpawnInfo>
<SpawnInfo>
<Type>SPAWN_EMU_NATIVE</Type>
<UnitType>UNIT_EMU</UnitType>
<bLatitudeAbs>0</bLatitudeAbs>
<iMinLatitude>-40</iMinLatitude>
<iMaxLatitude>0</iMaxLatitude>
</SpawnInfo>
Edit: It appears it is that case.
Then spawns like this
<SpawnInfo>
<Type>SPAWN_EAGLE_BALD_NATIVE</Type>
<UnitType>UNIT_EAGLE_BALD</UnitType>
<iMinLatitude>25</iMinLatitude>
<iMaxLatitude>60</iMaxLatitude>
</SpawnInfo>
are broken beyond repair on space maps.
I would need something like that:
Example numbers after rescaling are in brackets.
Same for buildings and resources, that exists in cold zones.
Work around would be to allow it exist in between +-60 latitudes (-40 to -80 after rescaling)
Count of used latitudes:
Spoiler :
I wonder why some latitudes were used only once.
You can find all those if you open notepad++ and use find in files option for *.xml files.
Latitude>
How does latitude limits work for buildings?
If building has max/min latitude of 50, then it is equivalent of min/max latitude of -50 too.
This means I have to redo building latitude limits - that is add lower bounds, as symmetry is broken on Kation's spacemap when it comes to latitudes.
If scaling is changed from -90/90 to -90/-39 (space map), then it would be asymmetric...
For "warm" buildings rescaling is no problem.
---------- -39
Can't exist
------- -50
Can exist
-------- -70
Can't exist
-------- -90
Just need to use no absolute latitudes tag (bLatitudeAbs).
IMaxLatitude of -50 and iMinLatitude of -70
But how to make something like this ("cold" buildings):
---------- -39
Can exist
------- -50
Can't exist
-------- -70
Can exist
-------- -90
Just simply use iMaxLatitude of -70 and iMinLatitude of -50 in this case?
It appears bLatitudeAbs can't be used with buildings.
This means I can't turn off symmetry of latitudes.
I guess I'll just leave removed latitude restrictions for buildings and map resources.
That is only spawn infos are going to be rescaled, that is for separate modmod.
Now this is even worse....
What is difference between spawning zones of those two creatures?
Is first one spawning between 60 to 25 (N) and in -25 to -60 (S) latitudes?
Is second one spawning exactly between 0 and -40 (S) latitudes?
<SpawnInfo>
<Type>SPAWN_EAGLE_BALD_NATIVE</Type>
<UnitType>UNIT_EAGLE_BALD</UnitType>
<iMinLatitude>25</iMinLatitude>
<iMaxLatitude>60</iMaxLatitude>
</SpawnInfo>
<SpawnInfo>
<Type>SPAWN_EMU_NATIVE</Type>
<UnitType>UNIT_EMU</UnitType>
<bLatitudeAbs>0</bLatitudeAbs>
<iMinLatitude>-40</iMinLatitude>
<iMaxLatitude>0</iMaxLatitude>
</SpawnInfo>
Edit: It appears it is that case.
Then spawns like this
<SpawnInfo>
<Type>SPAWN_EAGLE_BALD_NATIVE</Type>
<UnitType>UNIT_EAGLE_BALD</UnitType>
<iMinLatitude>25</iMinLatitude>
<iMaxLatitude>60</iMaxLatitude>
</SpawnInfo>
are broken beyond repair on space maps.
I would need something like that:
Example numbers after rescaling are in brackets.
Code:
<SpawnInfo>
<Type>SPAWN_EAGLE_BALD_NATIVE</Type>
<UnitType>UNIT_EAGLE_BALD</UnitType>
<bLatitudeAbs>0</bLatitudeAbs>
<zones>
<zone>
<iMinLatitude>25</iMinLatitude> (-50)
<iMaxLatitude>60</iMaxLatitude> (-40)
</zone>
<zone>
<iMaxLatitude>-25</iMaxLatitude> (-70)
<iMinLatitude>-60</iMinLatitude> (-80)
</zone>
</zones>
</SpawnInfo>Same for buildings and resources, that exists in cold zones.
Work around would be to allow it exist in between +-60 latitudes (-40 to -80 after rescaling)
Last edited:
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
For building and map bonus placing latitude is symmetrical. 50 means 50 degrees North and 50 degrees South.
Animal spawns on the other hand can be both absolute and not. That way animals can spawn in the tropics both sides of the equator such as some of the sea critters or others like the Tern can spawn at both poles but need to move outside that range.
Fermongu
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2017
- Messages
- 199
Raxo, I did custom animal spawn file for GEM and I found out by trial and error that most negative number must come first for it to work in intended coordinates.
Example:
<SpawnInfo>
<Type>SPAWN_GORILLA_NATIVE</Type>
<UnitType>UNIT_GORILLA</UnitType>
<PlayerType>47</PlayerType>
<iTurns>270</iTurns>
<iMaxLocalDensity>10</iMaxLocalDensity>
<iStartDate>-200000</iStartDate>
<bLatitudeAbs>0</bLatitudeAbs>
<iMinLatitude>-50</iMinLatitude>
<iMaxLatitude>15</iMaxLatitude>
<iMinLongitude>-173</iMinLongitude>
<iMaxLongitude>-104</iMaxLongitude>
Example:
<SpawnInfo>
<Type>SPAWN_GORILLA_NATIVE</Type>
<UnitType>UNIT_GORILLA</UnitType>
<PlayerType>47</PlayerType>
<iTurns>270</iTurns>
<iMaxLocalDensity>10</iMaxLocalDensity>
<iStartDate>-200000</iStartDate>
<bLatitudeAbs>0</bLatitudeAbs>
<iMinLatitude>-50</iMinLatitude>
<iMaxLatitude>15</iMaxLatitude>
<iMinLongitude>-173</iMinLongitude>
<iMaxLongitude>-104</iMaxLongitude>
Fermongu
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2017
- Messages
- 199
Max and Min not coincidents!
Well problem is that equator is at -65, and poles are at -90 and -39 respectively.
This means bLatitudeAbs is a must - symmetry doesn't work on Kation's space map - equator is somewhere at Pluto and north pole is in hyperspace.
This means two temperate/polar bands will become one band covering tropics - can't have two asymmetric bands.
This means latitude limits can be converted only partially for animals and can't exist for buildings and resources on vertical space maps.
I guess partial solution with original longitude restrictions and converted if possible latitude animal spawn infos should be good enough.
Unless I shift bottom latitude, so equator would be at actual equator of Earth.
Bottom latitude of 0 would move equator to earth's south pole.
BeginMap
grid width=110
grid height=200
top latitude=90
bottom latitude=-90
wrap X=1
wrap Y=0
world size=WORLDSIZE_GIGANTIC
climate=CLIMATE_TEMPERATE
sealevel=SEALEVEL_MEDIUM
num plots written=22000
num signs written=0
Randomize Resources=false
EndMap
Then bottom latitude would be south pole and negative of bottom latitude would be north pole, this means I would use numbers like -30 to 30 for latitudes.
Eh it was typo.
Last edited:
I found way to resolve symmetry issue - I calculated bottom latitude, it must be -14 for Kation's space map for Earth to have actual equator.
This means latitude limits are going to be scaled down from +-90 to +-14 - resolution falls ~6x.
Earth is 57 tiles high.
28 unique entries for latitude should be good enough despite lowered resolution.
1 new degree represents 6.43 old degrees.
1 tile on Kation's earth is 3.15 degrees high.
This means converted limits allows things few tiles further into North/South.
Good thing, that I posted latitude values, that actually are used few posts above (and their count too).
Some values were used only once.
In excel I have original and converted values.
Excel (or its substitute) and Notepad++ are so useful for modding.
This means latitude limits are going to be scaled down from +-90 to +-14 - resolution falls ~6x.
Earth is 57 tiles high.
28 unique entries for latitude should be good enough despite lowered resolution.
1 new degree represents 6.43 old degrees.
1 tile on Kation's earth is 3.15 degrees high.
This means converted limits allows things few tiles further into North/South.
Spoiler :
Good thing, that I posted latitude values, that actually are used few posts above (and their count too).
Some values were used only once.
Spoiler :
In excel I have original and converted values.
Excel (or its substitute) and Notepad++ are so useful for modding.
Last edited:
You forgot to add comment to this SVN revision, so I added it.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
I believe the animal spawning was turned down just a few 2 much?? I a, hardly getting anything besides cow/cattle/pigeons and very few of them in the Medieval era?? Course it could be the map i am playing on also?? My Narnia map . .
<Define>
<DefineName>ANIMAL_SPAWN_MODIFIER</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>100</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
<DefineName>SEA_ANIMAL_SPAWN_MODIFIER</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>75</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
Animal spawning is unchanged.
But Narnia map has latitude of 0 everywhere.
BeginMap
grid width=69
grid height=59
top latitude=0
bottom latitude=0
wrap X=0
wrap Y=0
world size=WORLDSIZE_GIGANTIC
climate=CLIMATE_TEMPERATE
sealevel=SEALEVEL_MEDIUM
num plots written=4071
num signs written=11
Randomize Resources=false
EndMap
This means only equatoral animals are spawning.
All "cold" buildings (Min latitude > 0) can't be build in this scenario.
If it uses 1 or two terrains and features then animals are restricted even more on your map.
"Cold" animals won't spawn, that is ones with Min latitude of >0
Yep, only grass is used on it with small specks of other terrains.
Your map is as bad for animal diversity as it almost can be.
Your other map had no other latitudes than 0 too.
And both of them had starting date of -50 000 instead of -200 000
For both of them I fixed starting date. Also I changed bottom latitude to -90 and top latitude to +90
I'll check other maps.
In total 5 maps had wrong starting date (-50 000 not -200 000), two maps had zeroed latitude and two maps had cluttered team definitions, and one map had invalid units
Last edited:
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
how can i change that then on MY 2 maps i have?? any help with other stuff wrong on these maps are appreciated also . .
Well I'm checking and fixing maps, I'll commit when I finish fixing them.
And fixes are committed now.
You need to start new game to actually have these fixes.
Last edited:
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Can anyone figure out how to get that OLD Mongol camp working correctly??
What is its ingame name?
And what is that? Building? Unit? Improvement?
What old version of it did?
Last edited:
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
I believe this is it, its really really old, i have always wanted this in C2C . .
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/bts-mongol-camp.268624/
the one everyone wanted was "Mercenaries" like the one in
Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/bts-mongol-camp.268624/
the one everyone wanted was "Mercenaries" like the one in
Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
It is very much like the Civ I-III barbarian camps. They are an improvement that spawn units without the need for buildings or resources.
Sort of what I want to do with bandits.
My view for C2C with such, would be that a barbarian unit which has the gear can set up a camp to build more like them. Not have such camps spawn the latest and greatest units based on average tech level without regard to the whole C2C resource system.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
yeah, the mongol camp was originally in Warlords edition of Civ IV . .
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
This does sort of fit in with the discussion of a "brute" unit for each age on another thread but I have never seen the problem they describe.
Esfera
Warlord
- Joined
- May 28, 2018
- Messages
- 110
Does this mean that the Upscaled Research Time doesn't affect the AI?
Does this mean that the Upscaled Production Cost option also only applies to the human players?
What does that mean?
