Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[raxo2222]

Does this mean that the Upscaled Research Time doesn't affect the AI?
Does this mean that the Upscaled Production Cost option also only applies to the human players?

Everyone are affected by these options, since essentially there are four subsets of GameSpeed defines - one without options, other with upscaled construction, other with upscaled research and last one with both upscaled options being on.

Unless something in DLL was done so AI ignores those increases from upscaled production costs...

 

[KaTiON_PT]

Unless something in DLL was done so AI ignores those increases from upscaled production costs...

No, I just tested it, AI also gets the upscaled production cost.

Well, I changed the SVN summary to one that says that this option is better for players who get ahead of the calendar way too often or are interested in building more stuff before they get obsolete from techs.

 

[Toffer90]

@raxo2222 and @Toffer90 these values also apply to the AI right?

Of course, one would need dll modifications for it to only apply to the human player through gamespeed option.

The handicap xml however does offer a way to increase tech cost only for the player using the difficulty, but more relevant also a way to decrease tech cost only for the AI players based on only what difficulty the human player is on.

 

[KaTiON_PT]

Thought so, I had a brain fart when I included that. Thought the upscaled stuff only applied to the player.

 

[strategyonly]

Why would anyone pay a 2% cost if all the dogs in this category are the SAME??

 

[raxo2222]

Why would anyone pay a 2% cost if all the dogs in this category are the SAME??

All culture units have this feature.

 

[tmv]

All culture units have this feature.

Usually they have advantages over the regular units.

 

[raxo2222]

Usually they have advantages over the regular units.

Hmm maybe they (Jomon Hunting Dogs) should come with some free promotion, that makes easier to detect animals @Dancing Hoskuld

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Hmm maybe they (Jomon Hunting Dogs) should come with some free promotion, that makes easier to detect animals @Dancing Hoskuld

In which case it would be better if the Culture gave the free promotion to all dogs instead and the unit (Jomon Hunting Dogs) should be removed.

 

[raxo2222]

In which case it would be better if the Culture gave the free promotion to all dogs instead and the unit (Jomon Hunting Dogs) should be removed.

How else this culture dog unit could be made better?
Increase movement range by 1? Or what else, so it wouldn't be same as normal dog units?

 

[strategyonly]

How else this culture dog unit could be made better?
Increase movement range by 1? Or what else, so it wouldn't be same as normal dog units?

how about a multiple attack??

 

[raxo2222]

how about a multiple attack??

I don't know which tag is for multiple attack, probably @Thunderbrd knows.

 

[Yudishtira]

In which case it would be better if the Culture gave the free promotion to all dogs instead and the unit (Jomon Hunting Dogs) should be removed.

Please please do not do this.
1. There are quite enough cultures sitting empty, without emptying out ones that have something in them.
2. A unique unit is one of the standard ways of differentiating a culture. Unique abilities have their place too, but that leads me to
3. This could be one of many cultures in your civ. For both realism and general coolness, I suggest it should not upgrade dogs everywhere, which in realism terms lack the benefit of Jomon culture, having been built before it in time as well as elsewhere geographically.

Please just give the one or two free promos to the UU.

 

[Toffer90]

10169
Added Upscaled Research Option to option list.

@makotech222 or @Thunderbrd can you compile DLL?
I added Upscaled Research Costs to option list here.
I'm not sure if it will fix Pit's issue with savegame - suddenly unit strengths aren't displayed correctly, he plays without size matters

It appears this newly added option alone causes incorrect displaying of unit strength without Size Matters.
Basically black magic voodoo.

Recompiling the dll won't help. the problems arise from how the game saves which options are played with in the save file.
It is simply saved as a list of ones and zeroes, like so: 10011010101110 with no info that tells what value belongs to which option except for the order they are in.
So adding a new option smack in the middle of the option xml will cause strangeness as all the options after it are suddenly shifted.
example:
Old save use these options
A = 0
B = 1
C = 0
D = 1
0101
Then you add a new option E after A in the xml.
The old save will think that options in use is now:
A = 0
E = 1
B = 0
C = 1
D = 0
0101 (0 - New option will probably default to zero)
And you can see that all options except for A are wrongly set after adding the new option at the wrong place in the xml.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

For people like me adding promotions to Cultures for all units would be Hugely Unbalanced and game breaking,
I usually end up having like most of them if possible, if you'd add promotions or other things outside of a UU to Cultures I'd be having a Massive advantage for I'll have a Lot of Promotions right out of the gate which the AI would need experienced units to counter or have a unit that's flatout designed to slaughter it and I'd be able to field units that would counter that, or just throw enough at them that would eventually drain the AI of Units that are capable of holding their ground

 

[raxo2222]

Recompiling the dll won't help. the problems arise from how the game saves which options are played with in the save file.
It is simply saved as a list of ones and zeroes, like so: 10011010101110 with no info that tells what value belongs to which option except for the order they are in.
So adding a new option smack in the middle of the option xml will cause strangeness as all the options after it are suddenly shifted.
example:
Old save use these options
A = 0
B = 1
C = 0
D = 1
0101
Then you add a new option E after A in the xml.
The old save will think that options in use is now:
A = 0
E = 1
B = 0
C = 1
D = 0
0101 (0 - New option will probably default to zero)
And you can see that all options except for A are wrongly set after adding the new option at the wrong place in the xml.

I didn't knew that and @KaTiON_PT most likely too.
I moved Rescaled research cost to bottom on last commit after someone else reported bug.

Also this explain why option list is so messy.
I guess option list could be resorted on savebreaking change.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I really don't think we should restrict ourselves so much. To me UUs are mostly a waste of space. Outside of Bison Riders and some of the Clockpunk ones I ignore them. I would much prefer unique promotions or trade goods to having unique units.

Please please do not do this.
1. There are quite enough cultures sitting empty, without emptying out ones that have something in them.
2. A unique unit is one of the standard ways of differentiating a culture. Unique abilities have their place too, but that leads me to
3. This could be one of many cultures in your civ. For both realism and general coolness, I suggest it should not upgrade dogs everywhere, which in realism terms lack the benefit of Jomon culture, having been built before it in time as well as elsewhere geographically.

Please just give the one or two free promos to the UU.

1. It does not empty out anything it changes it from one option to another.
2. Not so. It was one of the many ways to differentiate a Culture. The initial Cultures did have 2 heroes and a UU but that was because they were easiest to do.
3. And yet there have been no complaints about the ones that do exactly that for the workers.

For people like me adding promotions to Cultures for all units would be Hugely Unbalanced and game breaking,
I usually end up having like most of them if possible, if you'd add promotions or other things outside of a UU to Cultures I'd be having a Massive advantage for I'll have a Lot of Promotions right out of the gate which the AI would need experienced units to counter or have a unit that's flatout designed to slaughter it and I'd be able to field units that would counter that, or just throw enough at them that would eventually drain the AI of Units that are capable of holding their ground

Two or three already exist in game and have for quite awhile but those were for workers.

Then there are the Cultures that provide trade goods rather than units.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

Two or Three giving Promotions for non-culture units ain't a problem, but when you're getting to the point that you'd have units with like 5-10 promotions solely from Cultures things can get a bit skewed, depending on the worth and strength of those promotions, I'm not Opposed to the idea, but it needs to be handled with care, as you don't want to give too much power to those that collect Cultures

 

[Yudishtira]

I am opposed to getting rid of existing units. It contravenes the 'more is more' credo, and it disses and discards another modder's work (and no I don't think I was the original unitmaker in this case).

I'm also still opposed to the "all units everywhere" element. Why not have the benefit given by the culture wonder 'building', so that it is only applied to future units in that city?

 

[Esfera]

So I was glad because recently I got my first Great Detective/Sleuth after thousands of hours of gametime across all my c2c games, even if we consider the truth they are pretty useless and underpowered compared to other great specialists, they are quite rare, so I was feeling good.
Feeling proud, I decided to check all the specialists of my city and found that the cityscreen doesn't adjust properly and doesn't show them correctly due to the list of all my specialist being too large and exhaustive after the recent versions have added some specialists like the Great Sleuth.

If my memory is still functional and works properly, I think that @Toffer90 was talking about he was working in a new aesthetic format for the cityscreen, so I want to notice him about this so he can take it into account now that the recent versions of the modpack have some extra specialists like the Great Sleuth, a fact that can make the list of all available settled specialists in a city considerably larger.
Using SVN 10106 (v.38.5 of c2c) as we speak.

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