Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[Yudishtira]

I would take that gold for the unhealth and crime most of the time. I haven't checked but Tahitian Riders sounds like a land unit. And not all smuggling is done by sea.

It's up to you whether you build it. And it won't give you the option of building the ships there, so no danger of making that mistake.

 

[strategyonly]

I would take that gold for the unhealth and crime most of the time. I haven't checked but Tahitian Riders sounds like a land unit. And not all smuggling is done by sea.

It's up to you whether you build it. And it won't give you the option of building the ships there, so no danger of making that mistake.

i knew someone would say something about not all smug. . places were not sea area's, but if this isnt then put something in there for NON-sea also , and gold crap, i have enough gold in the game and dont need this anyways again useless the way it is now in a non-anything city?? IMPO . .

 

[JosEPh_II]

i knew someone would say something about not all smug. . places were not sea area's, but if this isnt then put something in there for NON-sea also , and gold crap, i have enough gold in the game and dont need this anyways again useless the way it is now in a non-anything city?? IMPO . .

As I work thru the Civics Strategy that "gold crap" should start to be reduced. Some of the later Civics give Huge amounts of Gold. But it will also take some reduction of the amount of Gold generated by Buildings too.

Right now I'm trying to find what gives the big Boost to Gold during late Classical.

When you start your next New Game you will see that Gold is a little bit tighter in the early game.

 

[raxo2222]

Right now I'm trying to find what gives the big Boost to Gold during late Classical.

When you start your next New Game you will see that Gold is a little bit tighter in the early game.

All those buildings, that give +% gold from resources.

With Toffer's pedia you can find those quickly.

Can I see your save?

 

[JosEPh_II]

All those buildings, that give +% gold from resources.

With Toffer's pedia you can find those quickly.

Can I see your save?

It's a bit more than the buildings that give % . Although they are a majority of the Boom in during this timeframe. I have already toned down the Religions and Several Civics related to the religion buildings. But WWs and NWs are part of it too imo.

Save game? Here it is. Enjoy. I just climbed out of last place a couple hundred years earlier. But if Smoke Jaguar was not fighting he would be back ahead of me too. And Korea just declared War a few turns back too. Good thing he is on another continent. But I'm expecting invasion fleets in the near future.

 

[raxo2222]

It's a bit more than the buildings that give % . Although they are a majority of the Boom in during this timeframe. I have already toned down the Religions and Several Civics related to the religion buildings. But WWs and NWs are part of it too imo.

Save game? Here it is. Enjoy. I just climbed out of last place a couple hundred years earlier. But if Smoke Jaguar was not fighting he would be back ahead of me too. And Korea just declared War a few turns back too. Good thing he is on another continent. But I'm expecting invasion fleets in the near future.

One of AIs is researching Optics - its in Medieval era.
I think some AI may be even in Renaissance era!

 

[JosEPh_II]

Yup!

One of AIs is researching Optics - its in Medieval era.
I think some AI may be even in Renaissance era!

Yup! They shot out of the gate like wildfire. By the time I met the Deganiwida and Cyrus they had 10 cities to my 5.

 

[raxo2222]

Yup!

Yup! They shot out of the gate like wildfire. By the time I met the Deganiwida and Cyrus they had 10 cities to my 5.

Was that a thing in V38.5 or V37.5?
That is would Immortal player in Classical era see AIs in Medieval/Renaissance era without TD and WFL?

Here you can see that civics is small trickle here (PPIO), I'm not sure how C2C financial advisor shows gold sources.

Spoiler :

 

[JosEPh_II]

Was that a thing in V38.5 or V37.5?

Nope not on Immortal. But it was on NM Deity back then. Of course on Deity and NM D the AI gets the extra Band of Homo Sapiens to found 2 cites, effectively doubling their output in most all categories of play. Which in turn allows them to get to the Religions and Wonders faster.

I think my game will become "really interesting" when the other Continent Civs finally Invade; Mongols, Bystantines, Koreans, and Egyptians. I mean seeing Theodora's Sloops of War and Caravels Parked on my North shore line for the last 10-15 turns is a warning of impending Doom. Is it not? Heck even the Iroquois and Cyrus are any where from 5 to 15 techs ahead of me, as is Smoke Jaguar. And if I did not have 3 sources of Copper early in the game I would be even further behind. Copper wares bought me at least 10 - 12 Techs. Because they did not have copper yet. But they all got Iron before me and that shut off that avenue of Tech acquisition.

 

[raxo2222]

Nope not on Immortal. But it was on NM Deity back then. Of course on Deity and NM D the AI gets the extra Band of Homo Sapiens to found 2 cites, effectively doubling their output in most all categories of play. Which in turn allows them to get to the Religions and Wonders faster.

I think my game will become "really interesting" when the other Continent Civs finally Invade; Mongols, Bystantines, Koreans, and Egyptians. I mean seeing Theodora's Sloops of War and Caravels Parked on my North shore line for the last 10-15 turns is a warning of impending Doom. Is it not? Heck even the Iroquois and Cyrus are any where from 5 to 15 techs ahead of me, as is Smoke Jaguar. And if I did not have 3 sources of Copper early in the game I would be even further behind. Copper wares bought me at least 10 - 12 Techs. Because they did not have copper yet. But they all got Iron before me and that shut off that avenue of Tech acquisition.

Nice to see AI being better at least on Immortal handicap.

What do you think about construction costs in Ancient/Classical eras?
How easy is for new cities to catch up here?
I noticed that in your capital most expensive buildings can be built within 2 - 3 turns while average research rate is tech per 4 turns on Long.
Also that cities doesn't have really large populations here.

I wonder how Deity/Nightmare players now feel.....
Suddenly tanks while they are in Renaissance era - Muskets VS Tanks

With PPIO you can see what resources you are missing - it only counts resources, that were already revealed or enabled by tech.

Spoiler :

 

[JosEPh_II]

What do you think about construction costs in Ancient/Classical eras?
How easy is for new cities to catch up here?

Expensive. Not easy. But hey it's Immortal difficulty. Not supposed to be a walk in the park Difficulty level.

Upgrade costs really slow down the upgrading of older units to the next level. Especially the Property Units. I'm now getting Trade offers from the Iroquois for 12 of my early Property units (the ones still not upgraded to current levels) for a Tech near the level of the one I'm researching. I think they want them for their new cities cause they can't build them any more (and neither can I). I refuse the trade offers

So I'm trying to farm them old early units out slowly to the New Cities I'm building to keep crime and disease from running rampant and the Story tellers to keep the Education level from getting too Negative too quickly. It's a royal pain to get the Education levels back above 0 when they've dipped to -400+! Yuck! But again it's Immortal game. Adapt or die!

 

[raxo2222]

Expensive. Not easy. But hey it's Immortal difficulty. Not supposed to be a walk in the park Difficulty level.

Upgrade costs really slow down the upgrading of older units to the next level. Especially the Property Units. I'm now getting Trade offers from the Iroquois for 12 of my early Property units (the ones still not upgraded to current levels) for a Tech near the level of the one I'm researching. I think they want them for their new cities cause they can't build them any more (and neither can I). I refuse the trade offers

So I'm trying to farm them old early units out slowly to the New Cities I'm building to keep crime and disease from running rampant and the Story tellers to keep the Education level from getting too Negative too quickly. It's a royal pain to get the Education levels back above 0 when they've dipped to -400+! Yuck! But again it's Immortal game. Adapt or die!

Research and construction costs doesn't depend on handicap for players.
Monarch players can allocate more time for buildings as crime and education are easier to maintain and AI is slower with techs, buildings and units.
But then its easier to dominate AI economically.

Emperor is step below Immortal - @Thunderbrd plays on Emperor.
I think he's in Classical era too in his game. I wonder if AI outrun him and are in Medieval and some even in Renaissance era.

@Noriad2 how's Deity or Nightmare?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Research and construction costs doesn't depend on handicap for players.

Don't you mean AI here instead of player? Research and Construction cost do not depend upon the Handicap that the player is using since the AI are always at Noble no matter the difficulty the player picks to play at.

Question: Are my save games "fun" for you to look over and poke at?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think he's in Classical era too in his game. I wonder if AI outrun him and are in Medieval and some even in Renaissance era.

I don't think it's quite that bad but there are some AIs that are doing rather well here. I'd play Immortal most likely if I was not playing with my wife who gets irritated when they pull THAT far out ahead - that said yes, overall the AI is MUCH more challenging after fixing the workers and getting them to build more of the buildings. I play with unlimited national units and until we wiped our continent of AI players, we were starting to get so besieged by Ambushers it was getting very hard to keep property control units in the city alive since they'd come in and direct target them and then run off. That was causing severe early property issues. I'm finding I CAN ignore properties until newer cities are better entrenched but I know it's risky and I'd prefer to have a little better control there. The really successful AIs do get to about 15-16 cities and take a long pause there - not sure what for.

 

[raxo2222]

Don't you mean AI here instead of player? Research and Construction cost do not depend upon the Handicap that the player is using since the AI are always at Noble no matter the difficulty the player picks to play at.

Question: Are my save games "fun" for you to look over and poke at?

I mean same thing will have same cost for player no matter what handicap they have.

On higher handicaps AIs have cheaper techs, buildings and units.
It was set up in such way, so construction to research cost modifier ratio gets better with higher handicaps.
That is AI can get more buildings and units in era on higher handicaps.

Previously it used to be more expensive techs/buildings/units for players on higher handicaps.
AI being at Noble doesn't change anything here, just that tech/building/unit cost multipliers are applied on AI instead of players - this was changed somewhere before release of V38.5.
That is before revolution in V38.5: Deity players are slower than Noble players and AI was at constant pace.
After revolution: Deity players have same tech/construction costs as Noble players, but Deity players will see AI being much faster than Noble players.

I like poking at everyone's saves, as its fun to do so.

Thunderbrd, what do you think about little flattening of cost modifier globals?
That is changing building/unit costs from 105 to 100
Increasing project global from 75 to 100 and setting project cost multiplier at 8?
Before project cost multiplier was 10, but then global was 75 making that multiplier effectively 7.5.
SM units have global of 75 but it will stay like this.
Era construction costs are 100 everywhere.
This would make units/buildings little bit cheaper and projects little bit more expensive.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That is changing building/unit costs from 105 to 100

From what I'm seeing, this MIGHT be appropriate, but that 5% change in the Ancient era made a big difference now and the Prehistoric played out dead perfect spot on so I'm thinking leave this alone for the moment and let future playtests determine need. 5% may not seem like much in a given look at a turn and how long it will take things but over time in the course of the game it can make a big difference in how it plays out. If you get on top of production buildings sooner and faster, even by small margins, the effect compiles into a much larger impact down the road and before you know it you're on top of all the buildings and set to research or gold. Trying to avoid this happening much as a default but more something one can do because they need to for playing out a particular strategy. I'm thinking we might be just right at the moment and it would take more playthrough to see how it plays from the beginning.

Increasing project global from 75 to 100 and setting project cost multiplier at 8?

That would work if you want to go through and recost them all sure. Makes sense.

 

[raxo2222]

That would work if you want to go through and recost them all sure. Makes sense.

There were 25 projects, all in one file so it was fast to do so.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There were 25 projects, all in one file so it was fast to do so.

I don't suppose you updated the online spreadsheets on that did you?

 

[raxo2222]

I don't suppose you updated the online spreadsheets on that did you?

I didn't update those yet.

And done.
It was quick to recost as I just multiplied costs by 8/10 and then moved result costs.

 

[JosEPh_II]

So did Razzo just make building and unit costs cheaper by 5%? Or was it actually more? Just woke up from my afternoon nap and still clearing out the cobwebs!