Caveman 2 Cosmos

[Thunderbrd]

From modder to modder: May I have your sources for the graphic paging option?

Anyone can get our source code from the SVN I believe. But I warn that it's not easy to isolate what is a part of that from every other major modding step we've taken for thousands of other projects. I don't think I could figure out what was directly related to that specifically.

 

[raxo2222]

I wonder, where it is easier for properties to accumulate to higher values
Fastest speed or slowest speed?
Property accumulation depends on population, buildings and map diffusion for pollutions/disease/crime.
There is more time for population to increase and more time for buildings to get built.
But tech progression scales faster than game speed, meaning units and buildings, that change properties (and all others) gets unlocked in slower pace.

Here is list of property pseudobuildngs, that have highest unlocking requirement.
Crime - Timeline Tampering at 1950
Crime - Unsanctioned Black Hat Hideout at 2500
Water Pollution - Toxic Hydrosphere at 1800
Air Pollution - Blackened Skies at 1950
Disease - Plague at 900
Education - Min at -10000 and max at 10000
Tourism - Max at 3000

I thought someone wanted to scale pollution and crime to 3000? What happened?
I see there are plans for education and different sciency buildings and two new properties: entertainment and luxury in that property file

 

[Raven Destroyer]

if you could run the same seed/map with the various speeds you probably can get a good idea of that, beside you'd also get a lot more data besides properties

 

[JosEPh_II]

I thought someone wanted to scale pollution and crime to 3000? What happened?

It happened what's the problem? Black Hat Hideout not high enough for you? Does it really need to be a 3000? What?

 

[raxo2222]

It happened what's the problem? Black Hat Hideout not high enough for you? Does it really need to be a 3000? What?

I just asked out of curiosity, as I was surprised, that effectively crime/pollution properties are capped at 2000.
Its that you get all crimes on 2000, so few more unsanctioned buildings won't harm much more at 2500.
Also all pollution buildings are unlocked at 2000 - that is no more property pseudobuildings above that number
Also my endgame savegame space colonies are suffering from crime, as pepper didn't add way to fight properties yet

 

[Toffer90]

Also all pollution buildings are unlocked at 2000 - that is no more property pseudobuildings above that number

Are you saying that there should be no upper limit and that each pollution/other point no matter how high the number is should contribute a penalty?
That we should kinda abandon pseudo buildings at specific values as the main source of property effects on the game?

 

[raxo2222]

Are you saying that there should be no upper limit and that each pollution/other point no matter how high the number is should contribute a penalty?
That we should kinda abandon pseudo buildings at specific values as the main source of property effects on the game?

Nope, I meant I thought scale was higher - that is you would get last crime/pollution autobuilding at 3000.

 

[Toffer90]

Nope, I meant I thought scale was higher - that is you would get last crime/pollution autobuilding at 3000.

Does it really matter what the upper limit is? Is it a problem that different properties have different value ranges?

Why does this seem important to you is all I'm asking?

 

[raxo2222]

Does it really matter what the upper limit is? Is it a problem that different properties have different value ranges?

Why does this seem important to you is all I'm asking?

Well bigger scale for crime/pollution would mean more time for AI to react.
And global unhealth/unhappiness would have more time to build up.
Also bigger numbers are harder to get.

 

[Toffer90]

Well bigger scale for crime/pollution would mean more time for AI to react.
And global unhealth/unhappiness would have more time to build up.
Also bigger numbers are harder to get.

That wholly depends on the magnitude of positive and negative sources available for the property.
Do you feel flammability (range 500) is harder to control than disease (range 1000) which both are harder to control than pollution and crime (range 2000)?
Perhaps you have a point, though increasing the upper limit (and all the auto-build levels) would have to mean that we perhaps should increase the magnitude of some sources for the properties so that the properties doesn't become too weak.

I don't have a clear view and feel on the in-game balance the properties have, so you may be right that there is imbalance in some of the properties. That they increase decrease too fast and uncontrollably between really bad to really good and vice versa situations. This is Joe's domain (balancing the properties) so he would have better grounds to evaluate if you are making a good point here or not. Then he will have to decide further on whether the correct path forward is to adjust the magnitude of sources or simply increase the operational ranges of the property in question.

I'm mostly trying here to find out if you are just having an OCD event regarding the numbers used or if there is a real issue present in-game. ^^ No offense intended.

 

[raxo2222]

That wholly depends on the magnitude of positive and negative sources available for the property.
Do you feel flammability (range 500) is harder to control than disease (range 1000) which both are harder to control than pollution and crime (range 2000)?
Perhaps you have a point, though increasing the upper limit (and all the auto-build levels) would have to mean that we perhaps should increase the magnitude of some sources for the properties so that the properties doesn't become too weak.

I don't have a clear view and feel on the in-game balance the properties have, so you may be right that there is imbalance in some of the properties. That they increase decrease too fast and uncontrollably between really bad to really good and vice versa situations. This is Joe's domain (balancing the properties) so he would have better grounds to evaluate if you are making a good point here or not. Then he will have to decide further on whether the correct path forward is to adjust the magnitude of sources or simply increase the operational ranges of the property in question.

I'm mostly trying here to find out if you are just having an OCD event regarding the numbers used or if there is a real issue present in-game. ^^ No offense intended.

Hahaha its more of OCD with numbers
I guess I misread some changelog after all and I thought they somehow forgot to apply changes, like you forgot to upload file in your pedia/interface project before

 

[JosEPh_II]

Thank God you realize you Are OCD!!!

Now Please I asked you to Cool Your Jets (stop making these kind of posts/threads) till After v38 is released. Give us some breathing room to work and Not have to Stop our work to answer Your redundant questions. Rosumite' mne? Dekuju vam pe'knye! (forgive my ancient slavic, it's been years since I used it)

 

[raxo2222]

Thank God you realize you Are OCD!!!

Now Please I asked you to Cool Your Jets (stop making these kind of posts/threads) till After v38 is released. Give us some breathing room to work and Not have to Stop our work to answer Your redundant questions. Rosumite' mne? Dekuju vam pe'knye!

As for discussion in this thread I just was very unsure of design choice here, as I got confused
As for other threads I noticed something ugly and I wanted to report my findings.
Elso weri najs and gut fonetik Polisz
Blame Logoncal who made this thread - I went to see what ugly creature was sitting here.
I think I explored most of property - building interaction related to health and happiness and made you all more aware of it anyway.

 

[Toffer90]

If v38 is right around the corner I would like to put in one more of the remade bamboo feature models I'm working on first, it is also right around the corner now (Today or tomorrow).
I don't think I will have time to do more of them for v38 than that... depends a bit on when we start packing those new FPK files for v38.

 

[JosEPh_II]

As for discussion in this thread I just was very unsure of design choice here, as I got confused
As for other threads I noticed something ugly and I wanted to report my findings.
Elso weri najs and gut fonetik Polisz
Blame Logoncal who made this thread - I went to see what ugly creature was sitting here.
I think I explored most of property - building interaction related to health and happiness and made you all more aware of it anyway.

All this discussion about the property range got me wondering about something. I was told in the past that MinValue 0 was sufficient and MaxValue (500, 1000, 2000, 3000) set to just above your worst building entry level for each property type.

That said Education uses the -value range as well as the positive. T-brd has it -10000 to +10000. Because there are serious consequence to having Education stay in the "-" ranges.

But this got me wondering about something? Does the AI strive for an equilibrium point? And is 0, for the properties besides Education, that equilibrium point?

What tells the AI to strive to get Crime to 0 level? The AIWeight is set to -150 so it should have a fairly strong pull to get Crime down. But how far down?

Would it be better to make the range -3000 to 3000 so that the AI would seek to get crime to -3000? Or will it settle for getting it to 0? Has anyone ever documented the lowest crime level they have ever seen for the AI?

This can be applied to all other Properties as well, with the exclusion of education.

 

[Thunderbrd]

If v38 is right around the corner I would like to put in one more of the remade bamboo feature models I'm working on first, it is also right around the corner now (Today or tomorrow).
I don't think I will have time to do more of them for v38 than that... depends a bit on when we start packing those new FPK files for v38.

Whisperr is working on repacking the FPK's now. If you need to add anything to them, PM her the file and file path at this point.

But this got me wondering about something? Does the AI strive for an equilibrium point? And is 0, for the properties besides Education, that equilibrium point?

Yes. And Yes.

What tells the AI to strive to get Crime to 0 level? The AIWeight is set to -150 so it should have a fairly strong pull to get Crime down. But how far down?

I believe the AI weight does play a role, so please don't tweak it too much because I watched the math closely to get it to work with all the different properties and their needs. It's very touchy and really needs to be put under a microscope in the code, watching as the game processes to make sure it's acting right. Changing some of those numbers could easily have disastrous effects.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@ T-brd,

So, with Flammability range set at 100 to 500, the AI is only going to take it down close to 100 then. This one needs changed then. Thanks for the answer too.

As for AIWeight, that would only be a "last" resort. And I feel there is still much to work with w/o resorting to adjusting it.

 

[Toffer90]

Whisperr is working on repacking the FPK's now. If you need to add anything to them, PM her the file and file path at this point.

Maybe she could just not add the bamboo feature art to the FPK at this point.
This folder "Assets\art\Terrain\Features\Bamboo" doesn't need to be present in the v38 FPK file-set and the files within the folder could stay as loose files for this version.
I'm asking for this because they are a work in progress and it is easier for me if those files stay as loose files while I'm working on them.

 

[Thunderbrd]

So, with Flammability range set at 100 to 500, the AI is only going to take it down close to 100 then. This one needs changed then. Thanks for the answer too.

AI is a little different on static properties. I'm not as familiar with how it works there.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Maybe she could just not add the bamboo feature art to the FPK at this point.
This folder "Assets\art\Terrain\Features\Bamboo" doesn't need to be present in the v38 FPK file-set and the files within the folder could stay as loose files for this version.
I'm asking for this because they are a work in progress and it is easier for me if those files stay as loose files while I'm working on them.

k... passed along the request.