JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Hold your mouse cursor over your Flag bottom right and a Pop up will display build info on left side of Main screen
Caveman 2 Cosmos
- Thread starter strategyonly
- Start date
Noriad2
Emperor
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2014
- Messages
- 1,153
The flag is usually a few versions behind (it doesn't update with every SVN version). If you have the SVN version installed, you right-click on the Caveman2Cosmos directory, choose "properties" and then there should be a tab that states the SVN version.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
It's showing what version the last DLL commit was made.
Fun Fact: there is 929 techs.
Most likely you don't research 10% of techs - either got them free, traded or there were one off religious/punk techs.
Wonder how close was my 10% guess
Normal speed has 992 turns. If you wanted to keep constant tech pace, then you would have to research 1 turn per tech (closer to 1.1 in real game).
Eternity speed has 8252 turns.That is 8.9 turns per tech (closer to 10 turns per tech in real game)
Eternity is around 8x longer than Normal.
Do games last 8x longer in real life on Eternity than Normal? Or it would be closer to 10 times longer?
By the way units would look funnily slow in Giant map and Normal speed and pretty quick on Small map and Eternity speed.
Prehistoric/Ancient/Classical have 59/84/48 units.
Medieval/Renaissance/Industrial have 51/70/48 units.
Modern/Information/Nanotech have 143/67/64 units.
Transhuman/Cosmic/Galactic/Transcedental have 27/12/5/2 units.
There are no new Earthly military units on Galactic and later eras.
Most likely you don't research 10% of techs - either got them free, traded or there were one off religious/punk techs.
Wonder how close was my 10% guess
Normal speed has 992 turns. If you wanted to keep constant tech pace, then you would have to research 1 turn per tech (closer to 1.1 in real game).
Eternity speed has 8252 turns.That is 8.9 turns per tech (closer to 10 turns per tech in real game)
Eternity is around 8x longer than Normal.
Do games last 8x longer in real life on Eternity than Normal? Or it would be closer to 10 times longer?
By the way units would look funnily slow in Giant map and Normal speed and pretty quick on Small map and Eternity speed.
Prehistoric/Ancient/Classical have 59/84/48 units.
Medieval/Renaissance/Industrial have 51/70/48 units.
Modern/Information/Nanotech have 143/67/64 units.
Transhuman/Cosmic/Galactic/Transcedental have 27/12/5/2 units.
There are no new Earthly military units on Galactic and later eras.
Spoiler :
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
If I don't get more bug reports that keep making the goal stretch out further and further, We'll have a release by the end of this weekend.
Great news, thanks.
Does anyone use Duel/Tiny/Small map sizes?
And what era feels most polished?
Did anyone played on Normal speed, Duel map size and Settler difficulty?
On these settings I bet you could research whole tech tree in one day due to vastly reduced tech costs
These questions are for players to answer too.
And what era feels most polished?
Did anyone played on Normal speed, Duel map size and Settler difficulty?
On these settings I bet you could research whole tech tree in one day due to vastly reduced tech costs
These questions are for players to answer too.
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
For some test setups it's the fastest way to setup a game.
Would be they useful for normal gameplay?
Game pace settings like Small and smaller/Normal/Noble and easier must be hard for building stuff in cities - techs would fly like crazy, when you try to build upwards and keep your resource management / property control infrastructure updated
Or just keep research rate near 0% to get research mostly from research buildings
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Yeah, except your opponent(s) are getting 2-3 techs per round and you're not. It would be tough to juggle though and I wonder if the AI could do it. We used to have faster gamespeeds too. I wish we could get them back for testing purposes.Would be they useful for normal gameplay?
Game pace settings like Small and smaller/Normal/Noble and easier must be hard for building stuff in cities - techs would fly like crazy, when you try to build upwards and keep your resource/property control infrastructure updated
Or just keep research rate near 0% to get research only from research buildings
Who knows what some people consider fun? Some people like it when their hand gets stuck in a blender.
Their civilizations (and AIs too) would be thoroughly blended by time they reach Information era on Duel/Normal/Settler
That is their resource infrastructure would collapse due to obsoletions bringing down property management infrastructure (obsoletions in property management would damage it too)
Unless they would purposefully stall such techs
I checked multiple saves, that were on slower pace, and it appeared they didn't had some resources, that they should have them.
And they were using older property control units.
Tech cost depends on more factors than building cost.
In opposite scenario: Gigantic/Eternity/Deity it would be easy to keep your cities as modernized as possible.
That is no heavy building backlog, and resource/property infrastructure would have latest buildings/units.
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MagnusIlluminus
Emperor
The furthest I have ever gotten in this game (era wise) was back in v29 or v30 I did a game with Fast game speed. I was getting several techs each and every turn, it was hilarious. I cannot remember map size or anything else about it, but I think I may have made it into Renaissance or possibly slightly further. Not quite sure why I stopped playing it. Probably too many crashes.
I am currently doing a Normal speed game on the VerticalSolar map to try it out and see if I can reach the later eras. I have never used the Tiny or Duel map sizes, as I prefer larger maps. The small ones are just too crowded for me.
Your idea of a Duel/Normal/Settler game is interesting. I may have to give that a try, if just to speed through into the later eras. It is really a pity that we cannot specify one game speed for eras X, Y, & Z, and a different one for all others.
I am currently doing a Normal speed game on the VerticalSolar map to try it out and see if I can reach the later eras. I have never used the Tiny or Duel map sizes, as I prefer larger maps. The small ones are just too crowded for me.
Your idea of a Duel/Normal/Settler game is interesting. I may have to give that a try, if just to speed through into the later eras. It is really a pity that we cannot specify one game speed for eras X, Y, & Z, and a different one for all others.
MagnusIlluminus
Emperor
Well, I started up a game with Duel-Normal-Settler. It is nuts. In less than an hour (about 45 minutes) of game-play, and 14 turns in game, I have reached Sedentary Lifestyle and surpassed it. My city has produced a mere 5 buildings (the cheapest 
ones) in this time, and no units at all. I have no 
income, so cannot upgrade any units, and there are lots (at least 5 that I can see) of Barbarian units wandering around nearby that could conquer me if they wanted to (all I have is the default Tribal Defender, but his Str2 won't hold long). I am going to try and make a Atlatlist (takes 4 turns) and see how much longer I can go before being annihilated.
In other words, as expected, I am gaining techs like mad, but the game is basically unplayable. In the first two turns, I gained over 30 techs.
If anyone wants more details, ask away.
ones) in this time, and no units at all. I have no income, so cannot upgrade any units, and there are lots (at least 5 that I can see) of Barbarian units wandering around nearby that could conquer me if they wanted to (all I have is the default Tribal Defender, but his Str2 won't hold long). I am going to try and make a Atlatlist (takes 4 turns) and see how much longer I can go before being annihilated.In other words, as expected, I am gaining techs like mad, but the game is basically unplayable. In the first two turns, I gained over 30 techs.
If anyone wants more details, ask away.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
That adds fuel to the suggestion that easier games are getting far more research benefits but it hurts in a way because you research far too fast for the production which cannot keep up, making the easier setting, in a way harder.Well, I started up a game with Duel-Normal-Settler. It is nuts. In less than an hour (about 45 minutes) of game-play, and 14 turns in game, I have reached Sedentary Lifestyle and surpassed it. My city has produced a mere 5 buildings (the cheapest
In other words, as expected, I am gaining techs like mad, but the game is basically unplayable. In the first two turns, I gained over 30 techs.
If anyone wants more details, ask away.
Try the same game for a bit but at Emperor level instead. Just as a test.
Same thing happens to smaller maps too - map size doesn't change building cost.
I'll list tech cost modifier (IResearchPercent) for all speeds, sizes and difficulties.
Speeds (With upscaled building/unit costs option):
Normal - 1x (1.35x)
Epic - 2.5x (3.5x)
Marathon - 7.25x (8x)
Snail - 12x (13.75x)
Eons - 15x (16.50x)
Eternity - 20x (20x)
Sizes:
Duel - 0.5x
Tiny - 0.7x
Small - 0.85x
Standard - 1x
Large - 1.15x
Huge - 1.3x
Giant - 1.6x
Gigantic - 2x
Difficulty (only player research cost is changed):
Settler - 0.6x
Chieftain - 0.75x
Warlord - 0.95x
Noble - 1x
Prince - 1.05x
Monarch - 1.1x
Emperor - 1.15x
Immortal - 1.2x
Deity - 1.5x
Edit: Full tech cost equation.
All era cost modifiers are equal to 1x (IResearchPercent).
Lets say we don't have beelining stings option, and each team has one player.
Is TECH_COST_MODIFIER bonus for researching OR prereqs? Lets assume it isn't here for simplicity.
ITechCostModifier goes from 0 in Prehistoric to 70 in Future era.
[Base tech cost] = ( iCost TechInfo ) x ( TECH_COST_MODIFIER ) x ( iTechCostModifier EraInfo, depends on what era the tech is in )
This means there was typo or something in this part of equation ^
[Tech Cost] = ( iCost TechInfo ) x [( iResearchPercent WorldInfo ) + ( iResearchPercent HandicapInfo )] x ( iResearchPercent GamespeedInfo )
This means map size and difficulty tech cost modifiers add to each other.
Duel + Settler -> 1.1x
Gigantic + Settler -> 2.6x
Duel + Deity -> 2x
Gigantic + Deity -> 3.5x
Normal speed multiplies these values by 1x/1.35x, and Eternity by 20x
I'll list tech cost modifier (IResearchPercent) for all speeds, sizes and difficulties.
Speeds (With upscaled building/unit costs option):
Normal - 1x (1.35x)
Epic - 2.5x (3.5x)
Marathon - 7.25x (8x)
Snail - 12x (13.75x)
Eons - 15x (16.50x)
Eternity - 20x (20x)
Sizes:
Duel - 0.5x
Tiny - 0.7x
Small - 0.85x
Standard - 1x
Large - 1.15x
Huge - 1.3x
Giant - 1.6x
Gigantic - 2x
Difficulty (only player research cost is changed):
Settler - 0.6x
Chieftain - 0.75x
Warlord - 0.95x
Noble - 1x
Prince - 1.05x
Monarch - 1.1x
Emperor - 1.15x
Immortal - 1.2x
Deity - 1.5x
Edit: Full tech cost equation.
Spoiler :
All era cost modifiers are equal to 1x (IResearchPercent).
Lets say we don't have beelining stings option, and each team has one player.
Is TECH_COST_MODIFIER bonus for researching OR prereqs? Lets assume it isn't here for simplicity.
ITechCostModifier goes from 0 in Prehistoric to 70 in Future era.
[Base tech cost] = ( iCost TechInfo ) x ( TECH_COST_MODIFIER ) x ( iTechCostModifier EraInfo, depends on what era the tech is in )
This means there was typo or something in this part of equation ^
[Tech Cost] = ( iCost TechInfo ) x [( iResearchPercent WorldInfo ) + ( iResearchPercent HandicapInfo )] x ( iResearchPercent GamespeedInfo )
This means map size and difficulty tech cost modifiers add to each other.
Duel + Settler -> 1.1x
Gigantic + Settler -> 2.6x
Duel + Deity -> 2x
Gigantic + Deity -> 3.5x
Normal speed multiplies these values by 1x/1.35x, and Eternity by 20x
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MagnusIlluminus
Emperor
How do I change the difficulty in mid game? I have no idea how to do that. Unless you mean start a new one. I might try another game at some point with a higher difficulty.
Well, I survived Ancient. After another hour of real-world play (I have forgotten the number of turns, but somewhere around 30 to 40) I got up to Classical. Unlike with Prehistoric, I did not try to research all techs before transitioning. I beelined each Religion in turn, then the transition tech. Still, that got me 85 to 90% of the techs.
I have also reached Medieval. Again, beelining each Religion, and a few select techs, then straight to the transition. Took about an hour and a half (slightly less) and I am up to in-game turn 92. The game is a bit more playable now, though it is difficult to produce things while they are still relevant. I just settled my second city! *sigh*
I am guessing it has something to do with the Settler setting, but I have never (recently anyway) seen the Barbarians so ... skittish to enter my territory before. In one place, the have a stack of around 20 to 25 units just milling around, and another area with about 15 to 20 others. They could easily wipe me off the map if they wanted to, but they just don't seem to want to. This is not a complaint, just an observation. A couple of turns ago, I used two units to kill off a straggler, and the main stack in the next square over just moved away instead of retaliating. This is probably expected behavior for the Settler setting, just seems odd to me.
IF (and that is a big if) there is any interest in trying to balance setups like that game, perhaps building & unit costs should be adjusted like research costs are.
Well, I survived Ancient. After another hour of real-world play (I have forgotten the number of turns, but somewhere around 30 to 40) I got up to Classical. Unlike with Prehistoric, I did not try to research all techs before transitioning. I beelined each Religion in turn, then the transition tech. Still, that got me 85 to 90% of the techs.
I have also reached Medieval. Again, beelining each Religion, and a few select techs, then straight to the transition. Took about an hour and a half (slightly less) and I am up to in-game turn 92. The game is a bit more playable now, though it is difficult to produce things while they are still relevant. I just settled my second city! *sigh*
I am guessing it has something to do with the Settler setting, but I have never (recently anyway) seen the Barbarians so ... skittish to enter my territory before. In one place, the have a stack of around 20 to 25 units just milling around, and another area with about 15 to 20 others. They could easily wipe me off the map if they wanted to, but they just don't seem to want to. This is not a complaint, just an observation. A couple of turns ago, I used two units to kill off a straggler, and the main stack in the next square over just moved away instead of retaliating. This is probably expected behavior for the Settler setting, just seems odd to me.
IF (and that is a big if) there is any interest in trying to balance setups like that game, perhaps building & unit costs should be adjusted like research costs are.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Yeah, if you're willing. This game will probably finish soon
More likely an AI problem with the unit type leading the stack. *sigh* not ALL things can be made perfect prerelease.
Agreed but not just if there's interest in balancing this sort of setup. It also confirms a big part of the problem I thought DH was having when playing on Noble setting, his production rates being unable to come close to keeping up with tech progression. I had a feeling it had to do with the easier settings than Joseph and I had been testing ourselves (and most other players.)
@raxo2222 Thanks for some of those breakdowns. It does illuminate the issue directly it seems but I'll need a more alert morning mind to see what needs to be done exactly.
Just for fun: I screenshoted tech cost of last technology in tree.
Duel/Normal/Settler: 160 000
Gigantic/Eternity/Deity: 81 500 000
Difference: 509x. (In my previous post difference should be something closer to 70x, looks like there is different tech cost calculator)
Time difference for Normal/Eternity: 992/8252 turns -> 8.32x more turns in Eternity than Normal.
Area difference for Duel/Gigantic: 40*24/200*120 960/24 000 tiles -> 25x more area in Gigantic than Duel.
No wonder some people complained about fast obsoleteness of property management infrastructure (Units being ForceObsolete or stuff like that) and about building deluge in Industrial/Modern eras.....
Faster paced games means less time to upgrade critical infrastructure.
Also there are lengthy building dependency chains in later eras.
And most likely this is why theory of "obsolete property control units 2 generations later or something like that" failed - fast paced games means no time and money to upgrade critical infrastructure of resource producers needed for property management buildings needed for property control units.
Also smaller maps = higher risk of missing critical resources.
Some nonstandard mathematics would be useful to make such extreme pace settings make similarly playable and to make eras happen near designed dates
I still have four (now kinda outdated) saves, as I wanted to see their empires.
Here is their pace settings:
1. Prince/Large/Normal
2. Noble/Large/Normal
3. Immortal/Large/Normal
4. Emperor/Standard/Eternity
Duel/Normal/Settler: 160 000
Gigantic/Eternity/Deity: 81 500 000
Difference: 509x. (In my previous post difference should be something closer to 70x, looks like there is different tech cost calculator)
Time difference for Normal/Eternity: 992/8252 turns -> 8.32x more turns in Eternity than Normal.
Area difference for Duel/Gigantic: 40*24/200*120 960/24 000 tiles -> 25x more area in Gigantic than Duel.
Spoiler :
No wonder some people complained about fast obsoleteness of property management infrastructure (Units being ForceObsolete or stuff like that) and about building deluge in Industrial/Modern eras.....
Faster paced games means less time to upgrade critical infrastructure.
Also there are lengthy building dependency chains in later eras.
And most likely this is why theory of "obsolete property control units 2 generations later or something like that" failed - fast paced games means no time and money to upgrade critical infrastructure of resource producers needed for property management buildings needed for property control units.
Also smaller maps = higher risk of missing critical resources.
Some nonstandard mathematics would be useful to make such extreme pace settings make similarly playable and to make eras happen near designed dates
I still have four (now kinda outdated) saves, as I wanted to see their empires.
Here is their pace settings:
Spoiler :
1. Prince/Large/Normal
2. Noble/Large/Normal
3. Immortal/Large/Normal
4. Emperor/Standard/Eternity
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It's a bit imprecise, but as I stated at the top "there won't be any divided by 100 or +/- 1 in the equations.".
TECH_FUTURE_TECH
Base cost = 960359
Beeline will always be zero for the last era tech(s).
( iResearchPercent EraInfo ) This is actually the starting era chosen, I gave wrong information about it in the post I quoted above, I will make an edit to it and add a bit more details to the equation while I'm at it.
It ↑ is as Raxxo said set to not modify regardless of era chosen as start.
[Base tech cost] = 960359 * 1 * 1.7 = 1632610.3
Duel / Normal / Settler
1 + [Cumulative Tech Modifier] = 1 + [ -0.5 + 0 + -0.4 + 0 ] = 0.1
[Tech Cost] = 1632610 * 0.1 * 1 * 1 = 163 261 (Close enough, the dll does it in many steps where it rounds the numbers in between.)
Gigantic / Eternity / Deity
1 + [Cumulative Tech Modifier] = 1 + [ 1 + 0 + 0.5 + 0 ] = 2.5
[Tech Cost] = 1632610 * 2.5 * 20 * 1 = 81 630 500 (Close enough, the dll does it in many steps where it rounds the numbers in between.)
I will add the missing "+1", that obviously confused Raxo, to the original post.
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