Caveman 2 Cosmos

[hau]

I have some observation about combat AI. If you give AI some stack and correct strategies of this units, all going fine. But units that he build independently don`t get correct strategies - they have "city defend" mainly.
I hope this may help to correct combat AI soon.

 

[JosEPh_II]

As for diplomacy... I usually find it an annoying inconvenience.

This is just a matter of choice. You choose to ignore it but other choose to employ it. You find little return while others do. What is to argue?

Is your games not about sole conquest anyway? I have to ask, have you ever tried to make a game last as long as it can with all initial AI still intact and for the most part all thriving? That is a Diplomacy game. Of course the Big War that is programmed into the game will eventually happen. But how long can you keep it at bay is the task at hand.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Wow... the totally broken 38,1 is still on the air as a main download??

This pickering about preference issues feels absolutely crazy while the main download file of the mod has been totally broken for over a month. It looks like the whole edifice comes tumbling down for this case and it is really awkeard to recommend this great mod to anyone new since the main download is total crap and the crew seems very committed to be somewhere else than fixing it. Also, I find absolutely astounding that patch V38-thread has been closed under these dark premises.

As good as the base of this great mod is, it is going down very fast on this path guys. Hopefully you all can muster the energy and resolve to concentrate to the essential.

Right now I heartly recommend all new players steer far away from the main download and please... no more of that get the newest svn it is much better-crap anymore. You are shooting yourselves in the foot here every day and don't even appear to care. So very sad guys... so very sad.

Bugs continue to be found. Do you want us to serve you more bugs?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Wow... the totally broken 38,1 is still on the air as a main download??

This pickering about preference issues feels absolutely crazy while the main download file of the mod has been totally broken for over a month. It looks like the whole edifice comes tumbling down for this case and it is really awkeard to recommend this great mod to anyone new since the main download is total crap and the crew seems very committed to be somewhere else than fixing it. Also, I find absolutely astounding that patch V38-thread has been closed under these dark premises.

As good as the base of this great mod is, it is going down very fast on this path guys. Hopefully you all can muster the energy and resolve to concentrate to the essential.

Right now I heartly recommend all new players steer far away from the main download and please... no more of that get the newest svn it is much better-crap anymore. You are shooting yourselves in the foot here every day and don't even appear to care. So very sad guys... so very sad.

Re-release was scheduled for this weekend. And these discussions are an aside to it's work being done. As for your opinion over the use or not of the SVN, we will still give the better recommendation, which is use the SVN.

 

[Thunderbrd]

This is just a matter of choice. You choose to ignore it but other choose to employ it. You find little return while others do. What is to argue?

Is your games not about sole conquest anyway? I have to ask, have you ever tried to make a game last as long as it can with all initial AI still intact and for the most part all thriving? That is a Diplomacy game. Of course the Big War that is programmed into the game will eventually happen. But how long can you keep it at bay is the task at hand.

I guess that's one way to play. WFL is all about making that more likely whether you're trying to make it that way or not. I don't think a player would normally want this to be due to his own efforts to stabilize the game as much as that the game naturally is difficult to push out of this balance. I'm sure we'd love it if games more often became this but to say it's because we didn't try our hardest to find a way to compete better than our competitors isn't as fulfilling.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Re-release was scheduled for this weekend. And these discussions are an aside to it's work being done. As for your opinion over the use or not of the SVN, we will still give the better recommendation, which is use the SVN.

Was. As stated in the bugs and crashes, I've found the AI problems mentioned earlier in this thread - they don't have any offensive capability right now. That's, unfortunately, critical enough to have to resolve. I have a pretty good idea of where that's getting tied up but I've gotta look closer and figure out exactly how and it MIGHT need a long XML project to fix. We'll see. Thereafter it's going to be a matter of testing to make sure nothing else got broken in the process. So we ARE delayed again...dammit.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

10008

• Pillaging no longer gains gold if done in neutral territory. We might need to figure out some tool tip edits. Not sure yet.

Not sure I agree with this. You conquer a city, raze it to the ground and with this you no longer can pillage the countryside around the former city?

I can give numerous reasons why it disrupts the game but everyones got differing opinions so there's no point arguing. I just despise how it messes with the game flow.

As for diplomacy... I usually find it an annoying inconvenience.

Indeed, I despise combat and the way it messes with the game flow! Give me diplomacy over combat any day.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Getting gold from neutral razing is being exploited.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Getting gold from neutral razing is being exploited.

Why is it an exploit? Someone built it so pillaging it should give some return. Maybe not full return but some return especially in the few turns after it became neutral.

If we had a timing mechanism on improvements that did not require working the tile we could do all sorts of things. eg when an improvement moves into neutral territory it degrades back to nature over time giving lesser and lesser returns.

 

[olduser]

Why is it an exploit?

Because people use this to generate lots of money from building improvements on neutral ground and pillage them over and over. That's a exploit in my eyes.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Because people use this to generate lots of money from building improvements on neutral ground and pillage them over and over. That's a exploit in my eyes.

Then stop them building in neutral territory!

Edit the only reason we let things be built in neutral territory is to get over a bug in Realistic Culture Spread that the author said was not a bug.

 

[Toffer90]

Then stop them building in neutral territory!

Edit the only reason we let things be built in neutral territory is to get over a bug in Realistic Culture Spread that the author said was not a bug.

I agree, there is no good reason I can think of to allow players to build non-defensive improvements on neutral ground.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Then stop them building in neutral territory!

Edit the only reason we let things be built in neutral territory is to get over a bug in Realistic Culture Spread that the author said was not a bug.

I prefer to be able to have my workers get ahead of cultural growth if they ran out of stuff to do.

Also makes it hard for forts that don't count as a city.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Because people use this to generate lots of money from building improvements on neutral ground and pillage them over and over. That's a exploit in my eyes.

Of course it is!

But at the same time you are never going to get to a game state where exploits are not found and being used. We can not make a Perfect game!

So we get side tracked cause Johnny JumpUp found an exploit and is wasting his time making Lots of gold. Then we start killing processes that have any connection whether Good or Bad. Throwing out the baby with the bath water. Which leads to more problems. Breaks more things. Vicious circle dance. Sometimes you just have to let Johhny JumpUp play with his Exploit till you have a better base for the game.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Then stop them building in neutral territory!

Edit the only reason we let things be built in neutral territory is to get over a bug in Realistic Culture Spread that the author said was not a bug.

This!

Needs expanded upon, better explanation of why and when and who changed what. Some times the old original ways do work better, sometimes.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I agree, there is no good reason I can think of to allow players to build non-defensive improvements on neutral ground.

In fact once we merged Super Forts we should have gotten rid of the build outside border as that was all it was about forcing the expansion to that plot. Super forts is a more correct way of doing it. I use the watch towers to make the expansion happen the way I want.

I prefer to be able to have my workers get ahead of cultural growth if they ran out of stuff to do.

Also makes it hard for forts that don't count as a city.

I want to change the way forts work to make it possible for them to "act like a city" based on something other than a tech.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

This!

Needs expanded upon, better explanation of why and when and who changed what. Some times the old original ways do work better, sometimes.

Talking about the second ring of plots here.

With Realistic Culture Spread plots are added to your cultural borders based on how easy it is to travel through them. It does take into account resources but as a minor factor, whereas strategic resources like stone, flint etc should be the main factor. Building trails increased the chance of spread to a plot as did chopping trees. Having an improvement on it made it almost certain you would get the plot next expansion.

With the merger of Super Forts you can build a Watch Tower on the plot and claim it. It wont be fully claimed until your next expansion at which point you can build the improvement.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Honestly, the easiest way was to cut off the ability to raze in neutral territory. If someone wants to individually go through the XML on all improvements and stop any improvement that can offer gold for being razed from being constructable outside boundaries, then be my guest, then at that point we can change the rule back. I didn't want to mess with it at that level.

 

[olduser]

Then stop them building in neutral territory!

That's a good one. Good player's will always find and abuse such loopholes.

Why should anyone invest any time for ai improvements if this mod is full of obvious and maybe intended way's for the human player to cheat????
Next time someone complains about the ai the answers will be 'stop cheating' or maybe 'stop playing so good'.

Edit the only reason we let things be built in neutral territory is to get over a bug in Realistic Culture Spread that the author said was not a bug.

If it's bugged it should be fixed. If it's not a bug and just working in a different way as anybody expects it to do then maybe it just needs some improvements.

Please remind me what the bug is again.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Honestly, the easiest way was to cut off the ability to raze in neutral territory. If someone wants to individually go through the XML on all improvements and stop any improvement that can offer gold for being razed from being constructable outside boundaries, then be my guest, then at that point we can change the rule back. I didn't want to mess with it at that level.

I have already changed the six things that are allowed to be built outside borders so that they aren't allowed. Only those improvements that are claim territory will be able to be built in neutral borders. I'll put it up on the SVN soon.