Caveman 2 Cosmos

[Yudishtira]

Guerrilla captures a (size 40+) city in peacetime, and it autorazes. Is this as intended?

 

[Somebody613]

I meant Culture Local, Culture Active, Culture Native and Culture Adopted

OOOHHH!!!
How exactly do all of those work, by the way?

 

[jiallombardo]

One more question about the above save game. I have "Hide Obsolete Buildings" on in BUG menu. The Cooking tech is researched, yet I still see the Ant Catcher in the build options for Beijing. Is that a bug?

 

[raxo2222]

One more question about the above save game. I have "Hide Obsolete Buildings" on in BUG menu. The Cooking tech is researched, yet I still see the Ant Catcher in the build options for Beijing. Is that a bug?

Update to latest SVN - there was bug with obsoletions.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Guerrilla captures a (size 40+) city in peacetime, and it autorazes. Is this as intended?

Is the Barbs always raze option on?

 

[Toffer90]

Culture Local is buildable like normal buildings.
There are four types continental cultures, @Toffer90 can explain how these work.

It is only buildable if you have its adopted or native culture.
Local culture can be conquered, building a settler in a city will give that settler culture promotions based on what local cultures was present in the city that built it. Those promos will create the same local cultures in the city that settler found.
So if you have 1 city with local cultures that you have not yet adopted you can train settlers there to get the amount of local cultures you need to adopt that culture proper into your nation as a whole.

OOOHHH!!!
How exactly do all of those work, by the way?

"Culture Active" (Culture Accepted is another name I considered) combined with "Culture Local" is what unlocks the culture wonders that require this or that base culture (unlocks some other stuff too).
"Culture Active" is given to all cities if your capital have "Culture Native" or "Culture Adopted"; you get "culture adopted" if you have enough "Culture Local" in your nation.
"Culture Native" is something you start with and cannot get rid of, you will only have 1 "Culture Native" while you may get many different "Culture Adopted".

You can lose an "Adopted Culture", if you lose cities with "Culture Local" and thus go under the threshold amount of "Culture Local" that you need for the cultural adoption.

 

[Yudishtira]

Is the Barbs always raze option on?

I've not been at war for centuries, so all the cities I've picked up lately have been either from barbs (ie. who have just captured them) or with HNs. I will check but I'm more than 99.99% sure that option isn't on.

In this case I had revolted the city with spies and removed the defenders with Felis Superiors. Then the one HN I have that can capture cities was brought in to capture it, but (auto)razed it instead.

 

[Thunderbrd]

In this case I had revolted the city with spies and removed the defenders with Felis Superiors. Then the one HN I have that can capture cities was brought in to capture it, but (auto)razed it instead.

Remember also that pop 1 cities will autoraze... if it's not that, and/or if culture level in the city is higher than the normal starting level, then it shouldn't autoraze at all and it may be a bug.

 

[Yudishtira]

Remember also that pop 1 cities will autoraze... if it's not that, and/or if culture level in the city is higher than the normal starting level, then it shouldn't autoraze at all and it may be a bug.

This city was certainly not size 1, in fact it was 47 iirc. It was the Ottoman capital or second city until they were wiped a turn or two ago, so it had been there for thousands of turns. It might be relevant that, when the Mayans captured it a few turns ago, it didn't appear to revolt even for one turn. So maybe there is some culture overflow in play, whereby it had reverted to the lowest culture level.

My version is pre-v40 and heavily tweaked for space content and other things, so I don't suppose you'll be interested in my save. Oh well...

 

[Somebody613]

It is only buildable if you have its adopted or native culture.
Local culture can be conquered, building a settler in a city will give that settler culture promotions based on what local cultures was present in the city that built it. Those promos will create the same local cultures in the city that settler found.
So if you have 1 city with local cultures that you have not yet adopted you can train settlers there to get the amount of local cultures you need to adopt that culture proper into your nation as a whole.

"Culture Active" (Culture Accepted is another name I considered) combined with "Culture Local" is what unlocks the culture wonders that require this or that base culture (unlocks some other stuff too).
"Culture Active" is given to all cities if your capital have "Culture Native" or "Culture Adopted"; you get "culture adopted" if you have enough "Culture Local" in your nation.
"Culture Native" is something you start with and cannot get rid of, you will only have 1 "Culture Native" while you may get many different "Culture Adopted".

You can lose an "Adopted Culture", if you lose cities with "Culture Local" and thus go under the threshold amount of "Culture Local" that you need for the cultural adoption.

Thanks.
Is the building process fixed now, by the way?
I'm using an older SVN, and there's a Culture "whatever" (forgot which one, and the game is closed now) present in my cites as a buildable building.
Which, well, doesn't BUILD, lol.
So, if I update to the newest SVN, will those work the way you just described?
As in, there's a NATIVE culture that's representing my civ.
And each time I capture a city, it may keep its own LOCAL culture - which eventually is gonna turn into an ADOPTED version.
Though I rather dislike that you need to spread it by building CITIES, not by IMMIGRATION in those existing already ones or something similar.
Or CAN you?
Civilian captives SHOULD be equipped with the culture they were captured FROM - and when I make them into normal units, they SHOULD add it to your cities.
Like, literal immigration, ya know.
So, is THAT working now - and if not, is it PLANNED to be done soon?

 

[Thunderbrd]

This city was certainly not size 1, in fact it was 47 iirc. It was the Ottoman capital or second city until they were wiped a turn or two ago, so it had been there for thousands of turns. It might be relevant that, when the Mayans captured it a few turns ago, it didn't appear to revolt even for one turn. So maybe there is some culture overflow in play, whereby it had reverted to the lowest culture level.

My version is pre-v40 and heavily tweaked for space content and other things, so I don't suppose you'll be interested in my save. Oh well...

It's possible that the barbarian player chose to raze it for whatever reasons they evaluate to do so. Was it your unit that captured the city?

 

[Toffer90]

Though I rather dislike that you need to spread it by building CITIES, not by IMMIGRATION in those existing already ones or something similar.
Or CAN you?

Hmm, spreading it with immigrants isn't at the moment possible, but it's a good idea, Immigrants could get a random culture from the city they originate from as a culture promo, and work similarly to the settler unit.

Civilian captives SHOULD be equipped with the culture they were captured FROM - and when I make them into normal units, they SHOULD add it to your cities.

If the civilian captive stem from razing a city or killing a settler then it could very well inherit cultures form its source. Not implemented, just noting it as a good idea.

 

[Yudishtira]

Was it your unit that captured the city?

Yes

 

[Somebody613]

Hmm, spreading it with immigrants isn't at the moment possible, but it's a good idea, Immigrants could get a random culture from the city they originate from as a culture promo, and work similarly to the settler unit.

If the civilian captive stem from razing a city or killing a settler then it could very well inherit cultures form its source. Not implemented, just noting it as a good idea.

I was fully EXPECTING this to begin with.
I mean, immigration is the first LOGICAL option of sharing cultures between nations - and that includes captives (or even slaves) as well.
Especially, if/when they INTEGRATE as valid accepted citizens (aka are turned into your normal units, and Immigrants are NAMED that way to begin with).
So it's actually rather surprising it WAS NOT implemented that way from the get go.
I fully expect this to be "solved" soon-ish, since it's literally LOGICAL.

 

[Thunderbrd]

If the civilian captive stem from razing a city or killing a settler then it could very well inherit cultures form its source. Not implemented, just noting it as a good idea.

Part of the Ideas Project plan is to have them infuse influences from the unit's Ideas into the city when they join a city.

 

[Toffer90]

I was fully EXPECTING this to begin with.
I mean, immigration is the first LOGICAL option of sharing cultures between nations - and that includes captives (or even slaves) as well.
Especially, if/when they INTEGRATE as valid accepted citizens (aka are turned into your normal units, and Immigrants are NAMED that way to begin with).
So it's actually rather surprising it WAS NOT implemented that way from the get go.
I fully expect this to be "solved" soon-ish, since it's literally LOGICAL.

Your'e a demanding child, you know that? lol

It wasn't that way before the native culture was reworked, and you weren't complaining about immigrants and captives not carrying the culture then were you.
We must be allowed to introduce new concepts before it is 100% perfect or else no one would ever mod would they and C2C wouldn't exist because it is still an unfinished product and by your standards that isn't acceptable. ^^

 

[Somebody613]

Your'e a demanding child, you know that? lol

It wasn't that way before the native culture was reworked, and you weren't complaining about immigrants and captives not carrying the culture then were you.
We must be allowed to introduce new concepts before it is 100% perfect or else no one would ever mod would they and C2C wouldn't exist because it is still an unfinished product and by your standards that isn't acceptable. ^^

You are getting me wrong here.
My point is that when I saw it BEING REWORKED into more levels than just [Regional Culture]=>[National Culture], I was honestly expecting IMMIGRATION.
I didn't "complain" about the lack of it previously, because back then [Regional Culture] spread BY ITSELF to begin with, so it ALREADY was a sort of "silent immigration".
But now, especially when I saw [Settler-type units] having the [Regional Culture] promotion - I fully expected it to be carried around via Immigrants, given their NAME.
So the actual solution (build Settlers in a city with foreign [R.C.], then hope for it to eventually get adopted) really sounded WEIRD to me.
You can call it UNREALISTIC, especially compared to the expected way via Immigrants.
It's not me being demanding - it's the modding choice being made less intuitive and even less realistic overall, compared to what COULD have been.
I don't "demand" anything - I merely shared my point of view, lol.

 

[Toffer90]

The native culture mechanic was not changed primarily with the goal of deepening the cultural system, the main goal with the change was to detach native cultures from relying on the existence of buildingclasses, because we wanted to remove buildingclasses since it was a very heavy data-structure considering that it was only used to enable the native cultures mechanic as it were.
The new mechanic was the first and easiest idea that came to mind to get each civ to have a native culture without having buildingclasses.
(Before: each native culture building belonged to the same and only native culture buildingclass, each civ defined which of the native culture buildings that buidlingclass would point to for that civ)
So in a way, the new native culture mechanic was more a necessary detour, or preliminary work, done in a hurry to allow us to start stripping buildingclasses out of the game which was the main project that provoked the side project of changing the native culture mechanic.

 

[Somebody613]

Never mind.
I updated to the latest SVN and started a game on Eternity (as Israel, of course).
Personal emotional value aside, Israel IS a cheating civ location, lol - *TWO* Natural Wonders almost from the very start, yup.
And I just found out that it was much more fun to SCARE other civs into Assimilation by simply wiping out their Tribal Guardians.
I now have *FOUR* cities already (Jerusalem, Babylon, Istanbul, Mecca) - and the only unit I used was a 3-CLUBMAN infused with a GENERAL (still made him 4.5, lol).
Of course, I'm playing on Settler, but it doesn't exactly seem to be a major factor in THIS context.
Yeah, loool!

 

[jiallombardo]

One more question about the new cultures. Please see the attached save file. The city of kwaBulawayo is marked as (Zululand), but it doesn't have C.L.African in it. It was captured by Neanderthals (not barbs or the actual Neanderthal faction, but roaming Neanderthals, I have Neanderthal Cities enabled), and I took it from them. Is this a bug, or is it supposed to work like that? I didn't get the option to liberate the civ when I captured the city, btw.

If it's indeed a bug, would it be possible for me to put the C.L. African in there manually (like via WorldBuilder), or would that cause major issues?