Caveman 2 Cosmos

[Toffer90]

One more question about the new cultures. Please see the attached save file. The city of kwaBulawayo is marked as (Zululand), but it doesn't have C.L.African in it. It was captured by Neanderthals (not barbs or the actual Neanderthal faction, but roaming Neanderthals, I have Neanderthal Cities enabled), and I took it from them. Is this a bug, or is it supposed to work like that? I didn't get the option to liberate the civ when I captured the city, btw.

If it's indeed a bug, would it be possible for me to put the C.L. African in there manually (like via WorldBuilder), or would that cause major issues?

There's a 30% chance for a local culture to disappear when the city is captured, I'm thinking I should adjust it down to a 15% though.
Putting it there with World builder wouldn't cause any issues.
The culture buildings have nothing to do with the ability to liberate cities, I think that only depend on different player culture levels in the culture bar of the city.

 

[Somebody613]

There's a 30% chance for a local culture to disappear when the city is captured, I'm thinking I should adjust it down to a 15% though.
Putting it there with World builder wouldn't cause any issues.
The culture buildings have nothing to do with the ability to liberate cities, I think that only depend on different player culture levels in the culture bar of the city.

Real-life-wise, the disappearance of a local culture after conquest can have only two reasons: total annihilation or total "re-education" of the locals.
So, unless you put a hard-correlated downsizing of the city as well (both events happening or not happening simultaneously), this disappearance by itself is illogical.
Or, alternatively, make it dependent on certain "totalitarian" civics of the conqueror - then it'd also be historically accurate.
Heck, Inquisition and Atheism should be capable of automatically wiping "heretics" from a conquered city as well - and also in both religion AND population.
Oh, and I'm not nagging, just suggesting, loool.

 

[Snofru1]

I found it a little bit strange that I lost the C.L. Middle Eastern in one of my cities in a fire. I had to rebuild it and it was quite expensive...

 

[Toffer90]

Real-life-wise, the disappearance of a local culture after conquest can have only two reasons: total annihilation or total "re-education" of the locals.
So, unless you put a hard-correlated downsizing of the city as well (both events happening or not happening simultaneously), this disappearance by itself is illogical.

I was thinking more a repression, or a cultural setback, rather than an annihilation, that the conquered adopt the culture of the conqueror rather than retaining a strong cultural identity that is foreign to the nation they are now a part of.
That e.g. an Asian city, after being conquered by a European nation is less likely to become a prime example of a thriving Asian city while being part of a nation of mainly European culture where Asian culture is still considered foreign and a threat, i.e. not adopted yet, not accepted.
It makes more sense if considering e.g. a city that has 6 different local cultures at the same time, that some of them (thinking the minority cultures of the city) may become insignificant for the future development of the city after it has been conquered forth and back a couple times. A sort of cultural decay.

I found it a little bit strange that I lost the C.L. Middle Eastern in one of my cities in a fire. I had to rebuild it and it was quite expensive...

Yeah, I'm gonna look into limiting their ability to burn down, as that is immersion breaking as hell. ^^

 

[Somebody613]

I was thinking more a repression, or a cultural setback, rather than an annihilation, that the conquered adopt the culture of the conqueror rather than retaining a strong cultural identity that is foreign to the nation they are now a part of.
That e.g. an Asian city, after being conquered by a European nation is less likely to become a prime example of a thriving Asian city while being part of a nation of mainly European culture where Asian culture is still considered foreign and a threat, i.e. not adopted yet, not accepted.
It makes more sense if considering e.g. a city that has 6 different local cultures at the same time, that some of them (thinking the minority cultures of the city) may become insignificant for the future development of the city after it has been conquered forth and back a couple times. A sort of cultural decay.

Hence why I suggested making it dependent on your civics - if you are a peaceful economist, you shouldn't be erasing the local cultures instead of monetizing them.
But if you're a fanatical warmonger - you won't even try re-educating the local heretics, instead instantly wiping them out whenever you see them.
The two attitudes are completely opposite - so it should be reflected in-game as well.
Heck, it'd be fun to have a civic option focused solely on Cultures to begin with - and its opposite that "hates" them.
More immersion to come, yup.

 

[raxo2222]

Yeah, I'm gonna look into limiting their ability to burn down, as that is immersion breaking as hell. ^^

if SPECIALBUILDING_CULTURE
then don't burn

 

[Toffer90]

if SPECIALBUILDING_CULTURE
then don't burn

I was rather thinking, if bNukeImmune=true don't burn...
Cause, if a nuke can't destroy it, it's probably fireproof.

 

[Somebody613]

I was rather thinking, if bNukeImmune=true don't burn...
Cause, if a nuke can't destroy it, it's probably fireproof.

Cockroach, lol.
The unit with the most auto-immunities to any sub-type.
LOOOL!!!

 

[jiallombardo]

Question: Why can't I build a Farm on the tile I'm standing on (the corn tile)? I've attached the corresponding save file

 

[Toffer90]

Chop down the burnt forest first, we have forgotten to add burnt forest conditions for the farm build action.

 

[raxo2222]

Chop down the burnt forest first, we have forgotten to add burnt forest conditions for the farm build action.

Or to all build actions with forest.

<bCanRemoveWithNoProductionGain>1</bCanRemoveWithNoProductionGain> was missing from FOREST_BURNT in buildinfos.
I added to all build infos, if other forest features already had it.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Hence why I suggested making it dependent on your civics - if you are a peaceful economist, you shouldn't be erasing the local cultures instead of monetizing them.
But if you're a fanatical warmonger - you won't even try re-educating the local heretics, instead instantly wiping them out whenever you see them.
The two attitudes are completely opposite - so it should be reflected in-game as well.
Heck, it'd be fun to have a civic option focused solely on Cultures to begin with - and its opposite that "hates" them.
More immersion to come, yup.

Not sure I can agree. I consider this to be outside the scope of our Civic set. More akin to Cultural traits than to Civics. Perhaps T-brd might consider adding something like this to his Complex Traits? You would need to discuss that with him though.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I would consider some of these kinds of trait and civic influences over the strength of Ideas (cultures, religions, languages, etc...) when designing the Ideas project further.

 

[jiallombardo]

One more question -- is it possible to tweak the setting that causes the C.L. X (Local Culture) buildings to have "5% Slower build time of C.L. Y, Z in other cities"? It stacks and the stacking effect is horrible, I mean, it essentially costs 500 hammers to build, but now, for example, I have 18 cities, and I have 3 cities with C.L. South American, 3 with North American, 4 with Middle Eastern, 3 with Oceanian, 2 with European, 2 with African. Now in my capital it costs 501 TURNS (!!!!) to build a C.L. Oceanian, for example. I understand it could be a mechanic to completely prevent having local culture X in all cities, but it makes the building cost of local cultures simply prohibitive. I mean, with stuff like Coinage or Slavery I can work around that (I can hurry production with money or whips), so it's not really a hard restriction, but rather it seems kind of a nuisance...

 

[Toffer90]

One more question -- is it possible to tweak the setting that causes the C.L. X (Local Culture) buildings to have "5% Slower build time of C.L. Y, Z in other cities"? It stacks and the stacking effect is horrible, I mean, it essentially costs 500 hammers to build, but now, for example, I have 18 cities, and I have 3 cities with C.L. South American, 3 with North American, 4 with Middle Eastern, 3 with Oceanian, 2 with European, 2 with African. Now in my capital it costs 501 TURNS (!!!!) to build a C.L. Oceanian, for example. I understand it could be a mechanic to completely prevent having local culture X in all cities, but it makes the building cost of local cultures simply prohibitive. I mean, with stuff like Coinage or Slavery I can work around that (I can hurry production with money or whips), so it's not really a hard restriction, but rather it seems kind of a nuisance...

Next SVN will have a different mechanic to replace that with more appropriate math and scaling.

 

[jiallombardo]

Next SVN will have a different mechanic to replace that with more appropriate math and scaling.

Thanks! Will it break save games though? I mean, I can wait until currency and just rush-buy those things, so as to risk not breaking the game

 

[Toffer90]

Thanks! Will it break save games though? I mean, I can wait until currency and just rush-buy those things, so as to risk not breaking the game

If you are currently on the latest, then updating to the next one won't break saves.

 

[jiallombardo]

If you are currently on the latest, then updating to the next one won't break saves.

I'm on 11139, will it be safe to update from there?

 

[Toffer90]

I'm on 11139, will it be safe to update from there?

Yeah, pretty sure no one has dropped in any save breaking changes since then.

It is possible any save breaking changes will be at least a year away at this point, unless someone on the team wrap up something important that breaks saves pretty soon it will have to wait until we feel it's time for another save break period, and we don't like to do such periods sporadically or often.

The changed mechanic for dynamic local culture hammer cost will be in 11142 which will be available to you in about an hour from now.

 

[jiallombardo]

Thanks, just updated, so the hammer cost went up (e.g. the Oceanian culture now costs 2650 hammers), but the local production now affects it, so it's 6 turns to build (at least in my capital ). I didn't quite understand the math, it says that every Oceanian C.L. provides -5% to C.L. Oceanian everywhere, but also ups the cost of other C.L.'s by 10%, so how is it ultimately calculated? What's the best approach if I want to have all cultures everywhere, for example -- should I attempt to build new cities with diverse cultures, or focus on one culture?