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Caveman 2 Cosmos

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Somebody613

    Somebody613 Prince

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    You are getting me wrong here.
    My point is that when I saw it BEING REWORKED into more levels than just [Regional Culture]=>[National Culture], I was honestly expecting IMMIGRATION.
    I didn't "complain" about the lack of it previously, because back then [Regional Culture] spread BY ITSELF to begin with, so it ALREADY was a sort of "silent immigration".
    But now, especially when I saw [Settler-type units] having the [Regional Culture] promotion - I fully expected it to be carried around via Immigrants, given their NAME.
    So the actual solution (build Settlers in a city with foreign [R.C.], then hope for it to eventually get adopted) really sounded WEIRD to me.
    You can call it UNREALISTIC, especially compared to the expected way via Immigrants.
    It's not me being demanding - it's the modding choice being made less intuitive and even less realistic overall, compared to what COULD have been.
    I don't "demand" anything - I merely shared my point of view, lol.
     
  2. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    The native culture mechanic was not changed primarily with the goal of deepening the cultural system, the main goal with the change was to detach native cultures from relying on the existence of buildingclasses, because we wanted to remove buildingclasses since it was a very heavy data-structure considering that it was only used to enable the native cultures mechanic as it were.
    The new mechanic was the first and easiest idea that came to mind to get each civ to have a native culture without having buildingclasses.
    (Before: each native culture building belonged to the same and only native culture buildingclass, each civ defined which of the native culture buildings that buidlingclass would point to for that civ)
    So in a way, the new native culture mechanic was more a necessary detour, or preliminary work, done in a hurry to allow us to start stripping buildingclasses out of the game which was the main project that provoked the side project of changing the native culture mechanic.
     
    sunrisereader likes this.
  3. Somebody613

    Somebody613 Prince

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    Never mind.
    I updated to the latest SVN and started a game on Eternity (as Israel, of course).
    Personal emotional value aside, Israel IS a cheating civ location, lol - *TWO* Natural Wonders almost from the very start, yup.
    And I just found out that it was much more fun to SCARE other civs into Assimilation by simply wiping out their Tribal Guardians.
    I now have *FOUR* cities already (Jerusalem, Babylon, Istanbul, Mecca) - and the only unit I used was a 3-CLUBMAN infused with a GENERAL (still made him 4.5, lol).
    Of course, I'm playing on Settler, but it doesn't exactly seem to be a major factor in THIS context.
    Yeah, loool!
     

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  4. jiallombardo

    jiallombardo Chieftain

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    One more question about the new cultures. Please see the attached save file. The city of kwaBulawayo is marked as (Zululand), but it doesn't have C.L.African in it. It was captured by Neanderthals (not barbs or the actual Neanderthal faction, but roaming Neanderthals, I have Neanderthal Cities enabled), and I took it from them. Is this a bug, or is it supposed to work like that? I didn't get the option to liberate the civ when I captured the city, btw.

    If it's indeed a bug, would it be possible for me to put the C.L. African in there manually (like via WorldBuilder), or would that cause major issues?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  5. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    There's a 30% chance for a local culture to disappear when the city is captured, I'm thinking I should adjust it down to a 15% though.
    Putting it there with World builder wouldn't cause any issues.
    The culture buildings have nothing to do with the ability to liberate cities, I think that only depend on different player culture levels in the culture bar of the city.
     
  6. Somebody613

    Somebody613 Prince

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    Real-life-wise, the disappearance of a local culture after conquest can have only two reasons: total annihilation or total "re-education" of the locals.
    So, unless you put a hard-correlated downsizing of the city as well (both events happening or not happening simultaneously), this disappearance by itself is illogical.
    Or, alternatively, make it dependent on certain "totalitarian" civics of the conqueror - then it'd also be historically accurate.
    Heck, Inquisition and Atheism should be capable of automatically wiping "heretics" from a conquered city as well - and also in both religion AND population.
    Oh, and I'm not nagging, just suggesting, loool.
     
  7. Snofru1

    Snofru1 Emperor

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    I found it a little bit strange that I lost the C.L. Middle Eastern in one of my cities in a fire. I had to rebuild it and it was quite expensive...
     
  8. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    I was thinking more a repression, or a cultural setback, rather than an annihilation, that the conquered adopt the culture of the conqueror rather than retaining a strong cultural identity that is foreign to the nation they are now a part of.
    That e.g. an Asian city, after being conquered by a European nation is less likely to become a prime example of a thriving Asian city while being part of a nation of mainly European culture where Asian culture is still considered foreign and a threat, i.e. not adopted yet, not accepted.
    It makes more sense if considering e.g. a city that has 6 different local cultures at the same time, that some of them (thinking the minority cultures of the city) may become insignificant for the future development of the city after it has been conquered forth and back a couple times. A sort of cultural decay.
    Yeah, I'm gonna look into limiting their ability to burn down, as that is immersion breaking as hell. ^^
     
  9. Somebody613

    Somebody613 Prince

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    Hence why I suggested making it dependent on your civics - if you are a peaceful economist, you shouldn't be erasing the local cultures instead of monetizing them.
    But if you're a fanatical warmonger - you won't even try re-educating the local heretics, instead instantly wiping them out whenever you see them.
    The two attitudes are completely opposite - so it should be reflected in-game as well.
    Heck, it'd be fun to have a civic option focused solely on Cultures to begin with - and its opposite that "hates" them.
    More immersion to come, yup.
     
  10. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    if SPECIALBUILDING_CULTURE
    then don't burn ;)
     
  11. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    I was rather thinking, if bNukeImmune=true don't burn...
    Cause, if a nuke can't destroy it, it's probably fireproof.
     
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  12. Somebody613

    Somebody613 Prince

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    Cockroach, lol.
    The unit with the most auto-immunities to any sub-type.
    LOOOL!!!
     
  13. jiallombardo

    jiallombardo Chieftain

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    Question: Why can't I build a Farm on the tile I'm standing on (the corn tile)? I've attached the corresponding save file
    Sid Meier's Civilization 4  Beyond Sword Screenshot 2020.03.28 - 05.48.30.96.png
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    Chop down the burnt forest first, we have forgotten to add burnt forest conditions for the farm build action.
     
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  15. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Or to all build actions with forest.

    <bCanRemoveWithNoProductionGain>1</bCanRemoveWithNoProductionGain> was missing from FOREST_BURNT in buildinfos.
    I added to all build infos, if other forest features already had it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  16. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Not sure I can agree. I consider this to be outside the scope of our Civic set. More akin to Cultural traits than to Civics. Perhaps T-brd might consider adding something like this to his Complex Traits? You would need to discuss that with him though.
     
  17. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I would consider some of these kinds of trait and civic influences over the strength of Ideas (cultures, religions, languages, etc...) when designing the Ideas project further.
     
  18. jiallombardo

    jiallombardo Chieftain

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    One more question -- is it possible to tweak the setting that causes the C.L. X (Local Culture) buildings to have "5% Slower build time of C.L. Y, Z in other cities"? It stacks and the stacking effect is horrible, I mean, it essentially costs 500 hammers to build, but now, for example, I have 18 cities, and I have 3 cities with C.L. South American, 3 with North American, 4 with Middle Eastern, 3 with Oceanian, 2 with European, 2 with African. Now in my capital it costs 501 TURNS (!!!!) to build a C.L. Oceanian, for example. I understand it could be a mechanic to completely prevent having local culture X in all cities, but it makes the building cost of local cultures simply prohibitive. I mean, with stuff like Coinage or Slavery I can work around that (I can hurry production with money or whips), so it's not really a hard restriction, but rather it seems kind of a nuisance...
     
  19. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    Next SVN will have a different mechanic to replace that with more appropriate math and scaling.
     
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  20. jiallombardo

    jiallombardo Chieftain

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    Thanks! :) Will it break save games though? I mean, I can wait until currency and just rush-buy those things, so as to risk not breaking the game :)
     

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