Caveman 2 Cosmos

Just wanted to sound people about about a change I propose to make in case there are violent objections...

The background is that I have found issues with the use of pioneers and colonists, in that, if you don't pe-prepare the ground for them (pre-creating improvements for food production) they tend to immediately found into starvation. One can readily argue that it is up to the player to make the necessary pre-improvements to avoid this. However, my counter-argument is that doing so puts the AI at a big disadvantage, since it has no clue there is any need to do this, and no logic for doing so. Not only would it be quite a large effort to add such logic, but we'd also have to change the way settler units are defined, since currently there are no tags that the AI can use to determine what a city starts off with (including population), and thus have a basis for decision making about what pre-preparation might be needed. This is because those units are defined (in terms of their differences from ordinary settlers) not by XML, but by Python actions when they found cities.

For the above reasons, what I propose to do is change the city founding functionality to check for the resulting city's food-storage-after-growth percentage, and add that much food at the time of founding. This represents the pioneers/colonists bringing some food with them (which I think is reasonable), and should serve to provide a sufficient buffer against starvation that the AI is able to build enough food prodcution in the new city before losing population (I'll check and if necessary adjust the buildings to ensure there is SOME storage included, but I think they provide granaries already so I believe that's already the case).

Opinions...?
 
Just wanted to sound people about about a change I propose to make in case there are violent objections...

The background is that I have found issues with the use of pioneers and colonists, in that, if you don't pe-prepare the ground for them (pre-creating improvements for food production) they tend to immediately found into starvation. One can readily argue that it is up to the player to make the necessary pre-improvements to avoid this. However, my counter-argument is that doing so puts the AI at a big disadvantage, since it has no clue there is any need to do this, and no logic for doing so. Not only would it be quite a large effort to add such logic, but we'd also have to change the way settler units are defined, since currently there are no tags that the AI can use to determine what a city starts off with (including population), and thus have a basis for decision making about what pre-preparation might be needed. This is because those units are defined (in terms of their differences from ordinary settlers) not by XML, but by Python actions when they found cities.

For the above reasons, what I propose to do is change the city founding functionality to check for the resulting city's food-storage-after-growth percentage, and add that much food at the time of founding. This represents the pioneers/colonists bringing some food with them (which I think is reasonable), and should serve to provide a sufficient buffer against starvation that the AI is able to build enough food prodcution in the new city before losing population (I'll check and if necessary adjust the buildings to ensure there is SOME storage included, but I think they provide granaries already so I believe that's already the case).

Opinions...?

Yeah wanted that for a long time just never said so!
With the starting food, AI can then shift focus on some cheap food buildings once city is in place to diminish the stravation real soon, maybe 30% of food storage should be provided, after all colonist-founded city have a granary I think, which has this amount of food to store.

On the other hand, the legendary settlers in the new world had no food with them, would there not have been some friendly indians and yummy turkeys, they would have suffered the same fate the settlers in greenland did - with their hostile inuit neighbours and the mini ice age...

Maybe newly founded, starving cities should have a higher "city X helps city Y with sharing food" event chance?

BTW what causes the extreme lag of the colonist unit? Have you experienced it, too?


Ah, having another idea regarding the city starting food: in prehistoric starts often your city is so unhealty that it doesn't make sense to keep it balanced but you let city starve on purpose (as it can't drop below size 1) because focus on production - shouldn't that be adjusted like if your city starves, the production is lowered? It just doesn't feel right to sometimes have -3/4 food in beginning. Maybe first founded city could have 30% food in it, so you have to chose between wasting that for early production and getting pop 2 faster... what about that? (I guess I still would go for the production building food buildings with it but at least it would balance cause AI wouldn't do the starve-on-purpose-tactic I guess)
 
That's a good idea, but will the AI be smart and fast enough to do that even with the extra buffer?

Yes, or (worst case) if not, then it'll be easy to fix by tweaking the existing logic and won't need a hue development effort to handle.
 
Well I may be screwed. I installed win7 to be more up to date with you guys and now I MAF out whenever I try to load my old games. And the thing is, its not like I'm late in the timeline, I'm just at the naval cannons, & bombards era and the games already trying to kill me.
AND the mini dumps are ZERO bytes. Am I supposed to run in some wierd mode for civ or what?
Anyways, I don't know why upgrading has crippled my game. If you have any ideas or work arounds please yell. And yes, all graphics are essentally off & low... and no reason I shouldn't be able to do what I did in xp with win7 right?
specs.
crap Win7 Ultimate 32 bit
4 GB ram
Nvidia 9500 GT (1 gig vram)
AMd Phenom 2 X4 945 (Quard core at 3.0 Ghz)
 
That's a good idea, but will the AI be smart and fast enough to do that even with the extra buffer?

The idea, I think, is that they build food buildings by default if city is in starvation, so they just need some (time) base food to get that done.
 
Well I may be screwed. I installed win7 to be more up to date with you guys and now I MAF out whenever I try to load my old games. And the thing is, its not like I'm late in the timeline, I'm just at the naval cannons, & bombards era and the games already trying to kill me.
AND the mini dumps are ZERO bytes. Am I supposed to run in some wierd mode for civ or what?
Anyways, I don't know why upgrading has crippled my game. If you have any ideas or work arounds please yell. And yes, all graphics are essentally off & low... and no reason I shouldn't be able to do what I did in xp with win7 right?
specs.
crap Win7 Ultimate 32 bit
4 GB ram
Nvidia 9500 GT (1 gig vram)
AMd Phenom 2 X4 945 (Quard core at 3.0 Ghz)

Runnign as admin? (or have Civ installed outside of 'Program Files' area)?
 
Yeah i'm running as admin, and is it NOT in program files, but its in the exact same place it was Before I "upgraded" the OS. Specificaly, its in a HDD meant for games, so that the OS and games don't have to compete for transfer rate by sharing the line. It helps quite a bit. But it worked there before, there is no reason I shouldn't work now... anyways, I read that trying compat. modes could help vs MAFS.... trying that now. :(
Nothings been added that would break saves right?
 
tried the compat mode as XP. got a new error instead of just "go MAF yourself"

Failed to allocated video memory. Please try reducing your graphic settings.
File:\main\Civilization4\SDKs\Gamebryo2_0\CoreLibs\NiDX9Renderer\NiDX9SourceTextureData.cpp, Line:321
Guess I keep looking.

Guess I want to know, someone who has played DEEP into the game, what do you run at? settings, res, Ram amount?
I want to figure out why this game hates me, while Skyrim on high can do 60 FPS np...
--------------Update
Ok well the problem isn't just MAFS....I get CTDs now, no error....and the minidumps are coming out blank at 0 bytes.
 
and no reason I shouldn't be able to do what I did in xp with win7 right?
specs.
crap Win7 Ultimate 32 bit
4 GB ram
Nvidia 9500 GT (1 gig vram)
AMd Phenom 2 X4 945 (Quard core at 3.0 Ghz)

Win 7 uses more RAM than Win XP. And 32-bit means that you only really have around 3.25 Gb of RAM.

Before I upgraded from Win7 32 bit with 4Gb of RAM to Win7 64 bit with 8 Gb of RAM, I couldn't play C2C because it would start to crash by mid-Prehistoric on a normal size map. And I had tweaked the program memory settings to allow programs use up to 2.75 Gb of RAM : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10109724&postcount=44

Here's also what they say in the Realism Invictus mod first post:
32-bit Disclaimer

If you have a 32-bit OS, you will not be able to successfully finish a World Map game. 32-bit OS memory handling is such that after the savegame size exceeds certain size, the game starts to randomly crash from Memory Allocation Failure (MAF). There is no way to prevent this from happening sooner or later if you are playing World Map on a 32-bit OS. There is nothing we can do with this sad fact, as it is inherent in 32-bit architecture itself and the way Civ 4 engine works with it, and there is no fix for that available a modder. Only play World Map if you have a 64-bit OS (or are content with playing roughly until Medieval era on a 32-bit OS)! Please restrict yourself to playing random maps if you have a 32-bit OS, and remember that the smaller the map size, the lower the probability of MAF.
 
Win 7 uses more RAM than Win XP. And 32-bit means that you only really have around 3.25 Gb of RAM.

Before I upgraded from Win7 32 bit with 4Gb of RAM to Win7 64 bit with 8 Gb of RAM, I couldn't play C2C because it would start to crash by mid-Prehistoric on a normal size map. And I had tweaked the program memory settings to allow programs use up to 2.75 Gb of RAM : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10109724&postcount=44

Here's also what they say in the Realism Invictus mod first post:

There is some truth to this of course, and it will limit your map sizes probably. However, it does NOT explain things like your 0 byte minidump, which strongly suggests that something else much more dramatic is going on in your case. AIAndy may have some ideas on what could cause that particular symptom...
 
Thanks for the quick reply. Yeah I read that bit about 32bit, and i know win7 sucks more RAM. I was just hoping that another win7 user our there knew something i didn't. Looks like I'll have to re-upgrade back to XP to keep playing my files. (which is funny cause I've played to post industrial on Large with 15+ bots on the ol' XP box. And this one has like 8)
I guess i'll shoot AIAndy a mail about the minidumps.
 
Win 7 uses more RAM than Win XP. And 32-bit means that you only really have around 3.25 Gb of RAM.

ARRRight Then I guess I had better go "buy" a 64 bit version of windos.....
 

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Important:

I have added my new gamespeed system, overhauling the Gamespeed for Eternity and Snail. The Eternity Speed now has 14550 turns, a slight increase, but it's research rates have been increased to keep tech in line with this, more or less. Snail now has 7225 turns, 1/2 of Eternity, a decent decrease in turns. All of their numbers for scaling have been adjusted down accordingly.

Any and all balance feedback is requested and valued, as this is still a test, and I will probably make a better version before V22.
 
Thanks for the quick reply. Yeah I read that bit about 32bit, and i know win7 sucks more RAM. I was just hoping that another win7 user our there knew something i didn't. Looks like I'll have to re-upgrade back to XP to keep playing my files. (which is funny cause I've played to post industrial on Large with 15+ bots on the ol' XP box. And this one has like 8)
I guess i'll shoot AIAndy a mail about the minidumps.
As Koshling said minidumps of size 0 point at something quite fundamental going wrong. Hard to say what though. Does normal Civ4 work fine?
 

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For the above reasons, what I propose to do is change the city founding functionality to check for the resulting city's food-storage-after-growth percentage, and add that much food at the time of founding. This represents the pioneers/colonists bringing some food with them (which I think is reasonable), and should serve to provide a sufficient buffer against starvation that the AI is able to build enough food prodcution in the new city before losing population (I'll check and if necessary adjust the buildings to ensure there is SOME storage included, but I think they provide granaries already so I believe that's already the case).

Opinions...?

Excellent sounding solution - it's always bugged me that if I make the slightest oversight in preparing the area around where I want to found my new city that I can immediately have a population drop, and it certainly makes sense that the more modern units should head out well supplied with food.

(On a slightly related note, I'd been vaguely wishing that there was such a thing as a food caravan, like a trade caravan type unit but built with food surplus per turn instead of hammers and gives stored food to a city it is used in, in the same way that a trade caravan can be used to give hammers towards building construction - IMO that could be extremely useful to help out smaller or struggling cities in any era.)
 
(On a slightly related note, I'd been vaguely wishing that there was such a thing as a food caravan, like a trade caravan type unit but built with food surplus per turn instead of hammers and gives stored food to a city it is used in, in the same way that a trade caravan can be used to give hammers towards building construction - IMO that could be extremely useful to help out smaller or struggling cities in any era.)

You are in luck. The mechanics for it are in C2C as I asked for it in RoM a long long time ago and Afforess put it in. Unfortunately I could not get a different unit graphic for it to work and gave up or got side tracked. The AI knows how to use it and you can automate it just like the merchant units. Now all I need is four units that look different from the early merchant -> freight units to carry the food. Anyone got some sitting around?
 
You are in luck. The mechanics for it are in C2C as I asked for it in RoM a long long time ago and Afforess put it in. Unfortunately I could not get a different unit graphic for it to work and gave up or got side tracked. The AI knows how to use it and you can automate it just like the merchant units. Now all I need is four units that look different from the early merchant -> freight units to carry the food. Anyone got some sitting around?

For which era are you looking for?? Did you see the request for a Great Admiral?
 
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