Caveman2Cosmos v43 Player Guide

[Dancing Hoskuld]

What... because there are already a lot of resources it reduces the chances for having some of the other later resource placement effects in the game being valid? I mean, it doesn't directly have this effect, just indirectly right?

There are fewer plots without resources, but then I don't know the ins and outs of Events anyway. As far as I can see the Fine Clay one should be working fine but it never does.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I just added new material that covers what is new to v37 on the third post in this thread (I ran out of room at the end of the reserved posts.) Figured I'd mention it here since it is newly added material. Part of it further ran out of room so I linked it to a new thread for the topic. It's the most central question-inducing material for v37 anyhow, criminal spawns, investigations and arrests.

Folks are welcome to comment there as they choose.

The only section I now have left remaining is to cover BUG options.

I read some of your option thread again DH and it seems still justified as its own thread for another way it all gets expressed and discussed further.

 

[Faustmouse]

Great work! Actually I just bought Civ4 on Steam and now I really want to start a new C2C game again

In the Defense Section you mentioned that there is a modifier for certain combat groups and that it is not in game.
IIRC, it is used with Ballista (?), the Castle building, which gives Archers and Gunpowder units extra defense (at least it used to do a year ago)

 

[Thunderbrd]

Great work! Actually I just bought Civ4 on Steam and now I really want to start a new C2C game again

In the Defense Section you mentioned that there is a modifier for certain combat groups and that it is not in game.
IIRC, it is used with Ballista (?), the Castle building, which gives Archers and Gunpowder units extra defense (at least it used to do a year ago)

Right... that's where I last remember it but I THINK it was removed. If it's not been eliminated then by all means I'll go back and retract that comment. Let's put it this way, I believe that it would really help to make cities hard enough to capture if its use was expanded on throughout all ages but for some reason, Joseph still mystifyingly feels that cities are too HARD to capture... We are REALLY going to have to figure out how to solve this strong disagreement between us here. It might just be more options is the answer. I dunno. Probably not yet going to be my focus. But I'd love to see that tag in use more and I don't think it has anywhere near enough application in the mod.

Bought on Steam huh? What happened to the original disks? I feel lucky I haven't had to use Steam for anything yet.

 

[Faustmouse]

I still have them, but my Disc Reader in my Laptop is broken... So either buy it on steam or buy a new disc reader (or an extern one). And I use steam anyways and actually like it

This tag sounds really cool (and realistic) as well. Maybe melee units should not get a bonus from walls? Sure they can throw stones or hot oil on attackers but does this do as much damage as fighting with a sword / Axe / Spear...?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Maybe melee units should not get a bonus from walls? Sure they can throw stones or hot oil on attackers but does this do as much damage as fighting with a sword / Axe / Spear...?

Hmm... hmm... something to ponder on. I really want some melee to be very good at defending and they are good with manning the gates. But I've hit on the thought you've just proposed previously and I'm still not quite sure how to display it... maybe melee cannot defend until the minimum defense to enter is breached somehow.

 

[tmv]

maybe melee cannot defend until the minimum defense to enter is breached somehow.

What would that mean if a city has only melee defenders when a (log/battering/siege) ram is attacking?

 

[Faustmouse]

They always CAN defend by running out of the gates and fight in front of the walls. However, this is not a strategy that utulizes the walls very well. Thus I said they should not recieve any defense bonus. However, one could imagine that this actually happens and that the defense modifier comes from archers that help them out from the walls.

 

[Thunderbrd]

What would that mean if a city has only melee defenders when a (log/battering/siege) ram is attacking?

Yeah, that's why I haven't tried to really model this rule. Because then they'd open the gates and use the gates as a bottleneck, gaining the benefit of the defense the wall provides. Though the next thought is, then if that's the case, should it be the FULL benefit the wall provides or just partial, and should the ram then be breaking down the defenses at all at that point?

It get's a little too much to get into trying to work with tweaking the odds on attacks with such flippant rules to try to model things extraperfectly. Even I draw a line somewhere, which is why I haven't tried to adjust how melee works with defense as opposed to archers and throwing. You COULD add a pt of strength for archers/throwing units if a wall exists but then there are overlapping walls that have effects, so perhaps 'crenelations' (sp?) could be an added build that walls qualify the city for at added tech levels that would play this role. But then a good gate/gatehouse design could then add +1 str or more to any melee defenders.

All this would have to work under the realistic siege option only though. It would be absolutely making cities a LOT harder to capture. Quite possibly TOO hard but maybe not. Would require implementation then testing.

They always CAN defend by running out of the gates and fight in front of the walls. However, this is not a strategy that utulizes the walls very well. Thus I said they should not recieve any defense bonus. However, one could imagine that this actually happens and that the defense modifier comes from archers that help them out from the walls.

That would not likely be how defenders would try to hold a walled position. The melee would be looking for breaks in the wall and especially at the gate and would be waiting to use those as bottleneck points to get an upper hand on those trying to rush inside. If you're out of distance fighters to man the wall, you'd voluntarily open the gates so as to hopefully control the entry point as much as possible, gaining quite a bit of benefit from the walls anyhow. Later medieval gatehouses were absolute nightmares to try to enter through. I'm surprised any castles were ever sacked. Would have to have required a LOT of catapults working overtime to reduce the castle to rubble because no way in hell any sane man would try to get through a functioning gate defense system... boiling oil coming down through grates in the ceiling while archers are firing at you from the right and left and the walls closing in with spikes and the floor giving way to a spiked pit and all sorts of possible horrors awaiting your entry, a line of pikes greeting you through a wrought iron fence gate on the other end... ugh. I'd feel better with a ladder going over the wall and braving the onslaught of arrows!

More basic defenses, however, would still make you fight 4 men to one if you wanted to try to push inward through the gates or holes you've blasted in the walls. Point is walls do benefit melee, quite a bit. Even when reduced to rubble there are still choke points melee defenders can use where they can get perfect footing while the invaders are struggling to pick their way through the carnage.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

Wow...

This looks amazing! Thanks for all the hard work.

Edit: 2 Questions

1. Is there a detailed rundown on the different map types and what they do?

2. Could I get a further rundown of the pros/cons of having Rev on?

Edit 2:

Also does ctrl+A still allow you to delete a building in cities, and if so, is the game balanced when using this feature?

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Moved to main forum and stuck as requested.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Wow...

This looks amazing! Thanks for all the hard work.

Edit: 2 Questions

1. Is there a detailed rundown on the different map types and what they do?

2. Could I get a further rundown of the pros/cons of having Rev on?

Edit 2:

Also does ctrl+A still allow you to delete a building in cities, and if so, is the game balanced when using this feature?

I missed your edits.
1) I wouldn't be the best to write that, so for now, no.
2) Rev is not currently well supported by the current mod team. It's therefore not all that well 'dialed in' as far as balance goes. It's also said to be more problematic for the AI than the player, which is very likely, so tends to support the player gaining a steamroll over all competition.

ctrl+A does still allow you to delete a building and even destroy the city. I don't think there's any imbalance in using the feature. It probably should get a mention somewhere in the users's guide here. Not sure where... but it should get a mention at least as it is rather important to know.

 

[Shoobs]

Can we talk dog/cat modifiers to attack/etc?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Can we talk dog/cat modifiers to attack/etc?

Well... what about them exactly?

 

[Shoobs]

Basically everything o.O; they have a lot of abilities to them that humans don't have.

 

[Harrier]

I selected "Size Matters" to give it a first run through. But during play testing was unable to split or merge units. I checked my startup settings and realized I had accidently checked"Vanilla Combat Mod" instead of the entry below it.

I started another game and made sure it was not checked and during a play test the size matters button appeared next to a unit as expected.

So it appears "Vanilla combat mod" turns off "Size Matters" as well as changing the method of resolving combat.

Is that as intended?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Yes. "Vanilla Combat" Option returns C2C back to a more basic BtS system. The one the mod used to have back in the early 20s versions. Before the Promotion tree went wild and all the other combat options were given birth.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

I selected "Size Matters" to give it a first run through. But during play testing was unable to split or merge units. I checked my startup settings and realized I had accidently checked"Vanilla Combat Mod" instead of the entry below it.

I started another game and made sure it was not checked and during a play test the size matters button appeared next to a unit as expected.

So it appears "Vanilla combat mod" turns off "Size Matters" as well as changing the method of resolving combat.

Is that as intended?

No. I'm not sure why that it would have that effect. I'll need to look into that as it is a bug.

 

[Harrier]

I will re-post it in the Bug thread.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I finally was taking a look at this thread and I am not even done reading and I want to cry. It is so beautiful! I am so happy to see so much of what we discussed to become reality now. Great job Thunderbrd and the rest of the C2C Team!