Celtic Mod Beta Release

[Baldyr]

Ok, I checked the code for "Collapse Motherland" and it seems to me that a Civ will collapse if none of its cities are within its Broader Area and it owns less than half of the cities within its Normal Area.

So I believe that you could have a Core Area that encompasses parts of western continental Europe, an Normal Area consisting of Ireland and a Broader Area encompassing all of these regions. Then you should be good.

Also, I still suspect that you have been using an outdated version RFC. Stuff is missing from your RiseAndFall.py! This explains the stuff missing from Consts.py, since that code isn't used in your copy...

I don't know what you should do about all this though. If you have compiled an DLL that doesn't work with the latest BTS patch you're pretty much in serious trouble... You might have to redo everything.

 

[antaine]

I started with the Mac version because it was all I had, but it works with 3.19.

here are the celtic areas. I really would like to see Ireland as part of the core, so I've included my wishlist core area (I don't know if that's possible with exclusion tiles), and a "simple" core which is a straight-up rectangle.

ps - if you're sure that there will be no penalty for possessing nothing in your core as long as you have the normal, then you can simply use the Continental box in my "preferred core" picture and define normal and broader as drawn.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Crashed--no luck with windows 7 and v3.19.

 

[antaine]

anyone have ideas how I can figure out what's causing the crashes?

 

[Zimzollazim]

When I downloaded this file and tried to extract it to my mods directory, I found there were all these 0 kb files with the same names as the folders that would not allow the folders to be copied due to name confliction. I am running windows vista, and I believe this may be due to your mac. Is there now way I can play this mod?

 

[antaine]

Hm, I'm not sure what the problem there is. Others have reported crashing issues, but not extraction issues.

I'm currently compiling a new DLL and have basically done *almost* the whole thing over again from scratch, this time using the latest version of Rhye's PC mod files instead of the ones from the Mac install (which I have come to understand were fundamentally altered in order to run on a Mac in the first place). I'm hoping that that will clean up the crashing issues and may make things easier for you as well.

It's a bit more than half-way through the compile. I'll just have to run it to make sure I didn't miss anything and then I'll upload beta v2 on this thread (hopefully either tonight or tomorrow).

 

[patkog]

I played your Mod a little bit and saw two interesting things:

The second UHV is NO right after the spawn

Religions spread quite strange:
Holy City of Taoism: Dilli (India)
Holy City of Hinduism: Sena (Egypt)
Holy City of Christianity: Fuzhou (China )

 

[Baldyr]

here are the celtic areas. I really would like to see Ireland as part of the core, so I've included my wishlist core area (I don't know if that's possible with exclusion tiles), and a "simple" core which is a straight-up rectangle.

ps - if you're sure that there will be no penalty for possessing nothing in your core as long as you have the normal, then you can simply use the Continental box in my "preferred core" picture and define normal and broader as drawn.

I don't think you need to have Ireland as a part of your Core Area. There will be no cities or units there in 820AD and thus it will do nothing anyway. I could add all those tiles manually but that would be such a big undertaking that I would just make a mistake somewhere.

Also note that the areas you've drawn could just be the basis of more detailed areas. You can add individual tiles to your Core Area - and you can subtract tiles from your Normal Area. (Broader Area is always a straight rectangle though.) If you add and subtract any tiles onto the pictures you posted earlier I could map those in also. (Or, you could just list each tile with coordinates. Otherwise I would have to look those up myself.)

 

[Baldyr]

I'm currently compiling a new DLL and have basically done *almost* the whole thing over again from scratch, this time using the latest version of Rhye's PC mod files instead of the ones from the Mac install (...).

That's great! You also need to reedit all the .py files but you could probably use my altered Consts file since its based on the latest RFC version. (I could add those recent changes to the Mongol, Aztec and Viking areas once I dabble with the Celtic areas. Unless they are part of your own modding?)

I've read several threads where people are complaining about RFC not working with the latest BTS patch, and the issue has simply been that they haven't used the latest RFC version. Old save files aren't supposed to work either and other incompatibility issues like that. So its no wonder we are experiencing crashes...

I noticed Python code was also missing from the older .py files. Like the feature that makes Civs declare war upon spawn. (Those variables were missing in Consts.py and that is the reason I checked. The code using those values simply isn't there!)

So its imperative that you don't mix new and old .py files in you modmod, or you'll be debugging indefinitely...

 

[Baldyr]

The second UHV is NO right after the spawn

I managed to start up a game as the Celts and all three UHVs are set as "not yet". It sounds strange that your session would have the British Isles objective failed at turn 86 when it expires at turn 154. Maybe you could post a save of both your starting turn and the initial autoplay save (turn 0)?

 

[Baldyr]

I'm thinking the spawns should be at about turn 160 and coming at 10 turn intervals (the UHV deadline is turn 154). Each should be a settler, a worker, two archers and two spearmen. Coordinates should be
49, 56 (Dublin, turn 160);
51, 55 (Cardiff, turn 170);
47, 55 (Cork, turn 180);
53, 59 (Edinburgh, turn 200)

I'm looking into these spawns and first of all there is no need for the turn interval to be there if we're not spawning random areas. So they could spawn at any date you wish.

I actually looked these settlements up on Wikipedia and Dublin seems to be a Norse settlement established on 841AD (turn #205). Cardiff seems to be a 20th century town even though there seems to have been settlements on the site since the neolithic period. Cork was settled by Norse traders on an existing monastic site about 920AD (turn #213). Edinburgh seems to have roots going back to the Bronze Age and the Celtic period started somewhere around 700AD. Or so it would seem to an amateur like me.

I guess what I'm saying is that there are more options available here. Like spawning independent/barbarian cities before the Celts (human or AI) establish themselves on the Isles. (Because, it could be more interesting to capture cities than to settle them.) Also, some cities could be spawned as Viking cities. And instead of spawning units (Settler + defensive units) the AI could just get a city or military units.

So my suggestion would be to give the AI Celts a city in Britain at some point, and a smallish invasion force on Ireland at some later turn. This way the AI might or might not complete the UHV in time. (Probably not, but it would at least be possible.) The human player would of course not get any of these spawns! Any non-Celtic cities would appear for the human player also, so the isles wouldn't be completely unpopulated once the player reaches them.

You should also consider what is the best course of action in regard to actually playing the English. People will wanna play an "enhanced" game as England - with Celts thrown in for flavor. I know I would...

 

[Bonci]

I am running windows vista

I'm running Windows Vista too but I extracted the files normally...maybe there was some kind of error when you downloaded the archive?

And for the second UHV in my screenshot you can see that I have accomplished it...

 

[Baldyr]

I also noted this line (#477) in Consts.py:

((51, 50), (52, 49), (52, 50), (53, 47), [COLOR="Red"](53, 48), [/COLOR](53, 49), (53, 50), (53, 51), (55, 46), (56, 46), (57, 46), (56, 45), (57, 45), (58, 48), (58, 49), (58, 50)), #France

It should be noted that all those tiles are still part of the French Core Area (as they are listed under "tExceptions"). If you don't want some of these in you could just delete them. Just be mindful of the syntax! (Also delete the comma and the blank space after it.)

What the default Core Areas are can be easily seen in the RFC Atlas.

edit: I noticed that the Bordeaux tile was still inside the French spawn area... (Marked red above.)

 

[antaine]

The seat of the ancient High Kings of Ireland was at Tara (Teamhair), which is so close to Dublin it would share a tile on this map. I actually wanted the settler spawns to be a bit of a reward for the human player as well. If they manage to achieve the UHVs, the settlers would help them double their presence on the British Isles before France pops up and swallows their Continental settlements. If they didn't achieve them, it will ensure that they survive long enough to have a chance in Medieval Europe.

As for England, I thought it was good as it was, but would have an added challenge of an actual Celtic civ to conquer instead of just some Independent cities (same goes for the Romans).

I was thinking of leaving the French area alone; the Celts had a rougher time in post-Roman Gaul than they did with the English (now that's saying something!).

I've redone pretty much the whole thing, this time starting from the PC install files, there were a number of differences between files like RiseAndFall and Consts in the two versions.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/a21a06d/n/RFC_with_Celts.zip

It seems to run well, I've only had one crash in a bunch of trials (after over 100 autoplay turns).

Only problem is that one of the first four civs invariably win an historical victory before 2300BC, but I don't know why.

Any thoughts?

 

[Baldyr]

I've downloaded the new files and will try them out soon.

The seat of the ancient High Kings of Ireland was at Tara (Teamhair), which is so close to Dublin it would share a tile on this map. I actually wanted the settler spawns to be a bit of a reward for the human player as well. If they manage to achieve the UHVs, the settlers would help them double their presence on the British Isles before France pops up and swallows their Continental settlements. If they didn't achieve them, it will ensure that they survive long enough to have a chance in Medieval Europe.

So the human player will also get free units in the British Isles?

But only if they complete the second UHV?

 

[antaine]

Yes, my intention was to give the human and AI player free units in the British Isles.

If they had completed the UHV, they will have three cities on the Isles to which will be added four more in the form of settlers. That will actually come pretty close to approximating the Celtic population centers at the fall of Roman Britain (or the fall of Britain to Rome, for that matter).

If they did not attempt the UHV, it will give them four cities (settlers) outside the French and Spanish flip zones on the Continent, before the French and Spanish show up. If the player is smart, and settles in modern Celtic areas of the British Isles (ignoring England proper), they will stay outside the English flip zone as well, or they can colonize all of Britain and either war with the English or lose some cities during the English spawn.

I wanted the settler spawn to come after the UHV had expired, so as to offer the Celts a lifeboat into the Middle Ages but not give away a free UHV.

I was hoping for the settler spawn regardless of whether or not the player was human or AI.

 

[Baldyr]

Yes, my intention was to give the human and AI player free units in the British Isles.

If they had completed the UHV, they will have three cities on the Isles to which will be added four more in the form of settlers. That will actually come pretty close to approximating the Celtic population centers at the fall of Roman Britain (or the fall of Britain to Rome, for that matter).

If they did not attempt the UHV, it will give them four cities (settlers) outside the French and Spanish flip zones on the Continent, before the French and Spanish show up. If the player is smart, and settles in modern Celtic areas of the British Isles (ignoring England proper), they will stay outside the English flip zone as well, or they can colonize all of Britain and either war with the English or lose some cities during the English spawn.

I wanted the settler spawn to come after the UHV had expired, so as to offer the Celts a lifeboat into the Middle Ages but not give away a free UHV.

I was hoping for the settler spawn regardless of whether or not the player was human or AI.

Ok, you can of course have it your way. It should be noted, however, that the human player never gets free units like this in RFC. Players of the modmod might feel like it was cheating. But its your modmod.

Does the human Celtic player also get all those free units if he fails the UHV?

Also, note that you spawn units either inside a Civs cultural area - or outside of the Civs cultural area - with the code in Barbs.py. (Which is something I've dabbled with extensively to get my own stuff working. I ended up rewriting some of Rhye's code in order to get my own ideas off the ground.) This will not work as you described regardless of which option you choose, because the already settled cities will prevent the additional units from spawning (if they are to be spawn outside of culture) - or the lack of cultural influence (no cities) will prevent the units from spawning (if they are to be spawn inside of culture). Since no scenario will be certain in every single game I really don't see how this would be achieved.

One could, of course, write an entirely different set of Python code to do what you suggest, but it may have to wait if I'm gonna help out with that.

 

[Baldyr]

I regret to report that you're still using outdated .py files in your modmod.

I compared your version of Victory.py (where the cause for the latest UHV bug seems to resonate from) with the original and large chunks of code is simply missing! You really need to get the very latest version of RFC and redo it all once again...

Also, I found some garbled up code in Victory.py that would indicate you have been using wrong encoding when saving your changes, but its probably just an incompatibility issue with Macintosh.

I cleaned up the parts that you had failed to paste in (paragraphing and indentation didn't work, at all) but the error would persist. That is when I compared the file to the original and found out that stuff was missing.

 

[Zimzollazim]

Still the file has all of these 0kb files that will not allow me to extract it, the 0kb files are extracted, but any folder with the same name is not. Not only can I not delete these 0 kb files, but there is an ungodly amount of them in the sub folders, making a copy and paste attempt to extract all the components one by one unmanagable.

 

[antaine]

what are you using to do the extraction? They're the PC files, and I've not gotten that report from any other person.