Celtic Mod Beta Release

[antaine]

I've just downloaded Rhye's from the website...that's supposed to be the latest (although some of the files are dated later in my original Rhye's on my 3.19 install). I'm going to get to work altering the files (again).

As for the spawns, I know that the Romans get free workers later on, and they get "free" cities in the form of Melpum and others that start off Celtic but promptly flip after two turns without a fight. I didn't think that giving the human settlers would throw off the balance that badly, but if you feel it would, then perhaps Independent city spawns at the locations I gave would be the way to go. If Ireland is in the normal area, would Independent cities simply flip to the Celts as the Celtic cities in Italy and southern Gaul do for the Romans?

 

[Zimzollazim]

I download the file from the website, save it to my documents. It is in a zipped folder, when I open that I see

_MACOSX File Folder
RFC with CELTS File Folder
_MACOSX File 0kb
RFC with CELTS File okb

The files image is a blank paper, within the RFC with CELTS folder, I see assets, CvGameCoreDll, and Public maps, each has a folder and file.


Wheter I just copy and paste or use the extract file available within zip, the 0kb files are copied, but the folders all get an error message that says file already has this name, try again, skip or cancel.

Edit

You know what is really crazy? if I click on the 0kb file, it acts like a folder!

 

[Baldyr]

You know what is really crazy? if I click on the 0kb file, it acts like a folder!

I'm no computer wizard or anything, but why are you extracting something labeled "MacOS" if you're running a Windows system? Clearly you don't need those!

Just extract the other folder and you'll be fine. I don't know why antaine included the Mac files in the first place, but then again, he's uploading edited files that are based on outdated files...

Not to be unfair though, this computer stuff is really hard! I struggle with these things also on a daily basis.

 

[Baldyr]

I've just downloaded Rhye's from the website...that's supposed to be the latest (although some of the files are dated later in my original Rhye's on my 3.19 install). I'm going to get to work altering the files (again).

I don't like the way that sounds... (How could it be? )

As for the spawns, I know that the Romans get free workers later on, and they get "free" cities in the form of Melpum and others that start off Celtic but promptly flip after two turns without a fight. I didn't think that giving the human settlers would throw off the balance that badly, but if you feel it would, then perhaps Independent city spawns at the locations I gave would be the way to go. If Ireland is in the normal area, would Independent cities simply flip to the Celts as the Celtic cities in Italy and southern Gaul do for the Romans?

All Civs get the free workers, or they should get them. At least the Civs that spawn later on. (I'm mostly doing modding on the 600AD start so I tend to forget about the earlier ones.)

All independent cities within a Civ's spawn area (the "core area") will always flip. There's a delay of two turns, or so I believe. (This also goes for the Workers mentioned above.) Cities belonging to other Civs only occasionally flip.

So, its very possible to spawn independent/barbarian cities and have them flip during a spawn or a respawn. Or simply have them as bait.

What I think personally isn't so important, but I'm doing my best to advise you before we try and add Python to your modmod. I'd rather do it once than have to redo everything once you figure out what you want, or when people are complaining.

Firstly you need to get the editing right on the right set of files. Any testing or any additions will be pointless until you do so. And I realize how confusing these thing can get. (There are some threads on this very forum where I'm venting my own frustrations.)

Then we need to get all those areas defined and edited into Consts.py correctly, once and for all. See the earlier post about tweaking the core and normal areas further, if you like. (There really isn't any real reason for half-measures since you've pretty much broken your back over this thing as is.)

Then there are the spawns for the British Isles. Its not hard to do in Barbs.py since I've done it many times before. But we need to agree to what is to be done before I actually code it. Basically its your call as designer on this modmod, I'm just letting you know what can be done, what would require some "dirty" coding, and what simply isn't practical to do within the RFC mod. But "anything" is basically possible, its just a matter of staying within the boundaries of Rhye's original design or going beyond it. (Personally I'm pretty much redoing some of his work, but thats another matter altogether.)

Lastly I could help you out with some modified or redone UHVs, if you think you need any. Its also possible to have another UP if you change your mind about keeping the Carthaginian one. (Again, your call.)

You're so near the finish line now that it must be painful for you! But don't rush this last stretch because it will only make it that much harder. I realize that you're basically just processing the files, redoing stuff you've already done several times. If you lose focus there are bound to be new bugs and errors in the code. If you get it right this time around though, it will be smooth sailing ahead! And who knows, maybe you'll be able to play your modmod on that Mac of yours?

Good luck!

 

[antaine]

I don't know, but some of the newly downloaded Rhye's were dated 07 and 08 where the one in the game patched to 3.19 were dated 09, others were newer in the Rhye's download (dated july of 09) while most of the stuff in the install was May 09.

As for the python, let me get this file stuff straight first. I'm going entirely off of Rhye's download ("latest version here") for the python and the c++. I'm going to try to use the xml that I had since I think it'll be okay, but I'll keep the other folder so as to modify them later on if there are problems.

I'm trying to recompile a new DLL using all the fresh files from Rhye, but for me that takes about four hours, so I'll post a third beta as soon as it's done and we can take it from there.

 

[Baldyr]

I don't know, but some of the newly downloaded Rhye's were dated 07 and 08 where the one in the game patched to 3.19 were dated 09, others were newer in the Rhye's download (dated july of 09) while most of the stuff in the install was May 09.

Ok, that sound about right then. The May dated files should probably have a more recent date, as Firaxis has included then their patch. Nothing to worry about, I think.

Just make sure you delete the files you get with the patch and completely replace the entire folder. Or that you install the latest RFC files in another folder. (One that doesn't already have copies of the same files in it.) I've read several reports about bugs that have been cleared out by deleting the old files prior to installing the new ones... Clearly, you don't need more bugs.

As for the python, let me get this file stuff straight first. I'm going entirely off of Rhye's download ("latest version here") for the python and the c++. I'm going to try to use the xml that I had since I think it'll be okay, but I'll keep the other folder so as to modify them later on if there are problems.

I wouldn't count on Rhye not making any XML changes in the latest release... As a last resort, I could compare your files to Rhye's to see if I can spot any changes that you would have missed... Do you know what XML files you've changed, at least?

I'm trying to recompile a new DLL using all the fresh files from Rhye, but for me that takes about four hours, so I'll post a third beta as soon as it's done and we can take it from there.

You do that... Once we're done with this beast you could probably help me out with something also. (I need to make the Byzantines a non-playalbe, non-minor Civ and that could very well involve editing the SDK. I really wouldn't know how to recompile the .dll file. But I'm doing just fine without this at the moment, so lets just focus on your modmod.)

 

[antaine]

Nah, to do that with Byzantines I think you just need to play with the WBSave and whatnot. Just switch "Minor Civ" to 0 but keep "Playable Civ" at 1. That was step one for me with the Celts. Once you do that, they can be talked to and negotiated with.

If you want to supply them with stability and maps that's another matter.

What I've done is to download a copy of Rhye's latest from the website and I'm simply editing all those files directly. It runs well as he has it, and other than the Celtic UHVs and some no-brainer stuff like the free religion choice toggle, I'm just editing names and coordinates. That shouldn't screw up the code since the only actual new code are the Celtic UHVs (which work, thanks to you) and the eventual spawns for extra stuff once we do them.

I'll post the new copy as soon as the recompile is done and I can be sure there's nothing funky about it.

As for the guy having trouble with the extraction, I really don't know what's causing the issue. It is true that I'm compiling it on a Mac, but the other PC people haven't had the same issue. It should open with anything that decompresses zip files.

 

[Baldyr]

Nah, to do that with Byzantines I think you just need to play with the WBSave and whatnot. Just switch "Minor Civ" to 0 but keep "Playable Civ" at 1. That was step one for me with the Celts. Once you do that, they can be talked to and negotiated with.

I believe that I've already tried that route, but if you're sure about this I'll give it another try.

What I've done is to download a copy of Rhye's latest from the website and I'm simply editing all those files directly. It runs well as he has it, and other than the Celtic UHVs and some no-brainer stuff like the free religion choice toggle, I'm just editing names and coordinates.

Yeah, but its really easy to make a simple mistake like copy instead of paste and vice versa, or miss one little change somewhere. Especially if you think that its easy, will go fast and nothing can possibly go wrong.

All it takes is to get the coordinates mixed up somewhere or that you miss a comma or forget to erase a parenthesis somewhere, and we'll be debugging until Christmas!

That shouldn't screw up the code since the only actual new code are the Celtic UHVs (which work, thanks to you) and the eventual spawns for extra stuff once we do them.

The new code will be added one thing at the time, while testing continuously. There will certainly be errors along the way, but those will mostly get noticed. Its not like I will be doing anything in a hurry.

 

[antaine]

Well, what I've decided to do is to leave the Celtic city spawns as Celts for the time being (except Melpum, and I'll explain why later). That'll give one or two on the Continent and one on each of the British Isles.

I've found that a good strategy can be to write off the Continent altogether and simply take your two starting settlers and head for the Isles. This means you don't have to move your capital later on. With Melpum in the mix, however, it self-founds as your capital before you can get to a good settling spot across the Channel.

Anyway, they'll probably get made Independent spawns before all is said and done, but if you notice they spawn Celtic in the next version or two, that's why.

 

[jmerry]

You know what is really crazy? if I click on the 0kb file, it acts like a folder!

As another Mac person, I think I can say what's going on here: the Mac file system handles some metadata differently, which can show up in odd ways if interpreted by a Windows system. Those 0 KB objects have nothing to do with the content of the files, and should be ignorable.
Of course, since this mod will only work in the Windows version, the zip should probably be built in Windows as well. That would eliminate the issue.

 

[antaine]

Alright, so a recompile from fresh files on Rhye's site gives me something that does not crash (at least it seem so so far). However, when I test play to the vikings, I get a python error in

Victory, line 726 in checkPlayerTurn

IndexError: tuple index out of range


Now, I've found that line, it's part of Rome's UHV (which I didn't touch), but I don't know what a tuple index is.


In addition, I can't seem to get the Carthaginian cities to spawn, even though I de-commented them in Barbs.py

 

[jmerry]

Is it this line?

bCarthage = self.checkOwnedArea(iRome, tNormalAreasTL[iCarthage], tNormalAreasBR[iCarthage], 2)

What's iCarthage in Consts.py? If you moved it to the end, this line is trying to find the 33rd element of a 32-element list (or something like that), which is obviously impossible. Rome's UHV needs to know about Carthage's home area, so that needs to be in the appropriate tuples (tNormalAreasTL, tNormalAreasBR in Consts.py, maybe also the core areas). You need to add to them, not merely replace.

When modifying these, keep in mind that tuples are zero-indexed. tStuff[2] grabs the third element in tStuff.

 

[antaine]

ah, when I first scanned for the line, I thought it was the one about iFrance, but you are right, it is the Carthaginian one. For now, I've just taken out the offending line.

Trying to autoplay to the Vikings, I just had my first crash. Let's see if it pops up again, it could have just been a legitimate crash because of the way I have to run it rather than something faulty with the dll.

 

[antaine]

hm, it appears the crashing has returned.



How can I debug that? It's not python causing it.

 

[antaine]

Alright, as I've said, for some reason the crashing has started again and I'm not sure why, but this DLL is made from the latest of Rhye's files. Anybody who knows how to debug that will find their efforts greatly appreciated.

I took out the Pick Religion option, but if I keep getting Confucian or Buddhist Europe it's going to have to go back in.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/a21345g/n/RFC_with_Celts.zip

As for the British Isles spawn, there are currently four Celtic cities designed to spawn on the British Isles, but I think I'm going to remove them (I'll have them spawn later as independent) and go with my settlers idea. I think I figured out how to make it work. I'm going to add a tile or two of shallow water; one off the north of Scotland and one off the West of Ireland. I'm going to have a galley with two settlers and a galley with two workers spawn in each. They'll be set up so that their nearest landfall will be Ireland and Scotland, so unless the Celtic AI wants to go out of its way that's where it'll settle them, but they'll still be outside cultural borders on the off-chance the human player succeeded in colonizing for the UHV (that way, they'll still get the spawn).

I forgot to change all the random Celtic spawns in Europe into Independents, so there will be some extra Celtic units in this version, but that will be corrected in the next.

 

[antaine]

I've added the tiles to the map, if I add the following code to Barbs.py, will it spawn those units at that date on those tiles? I'm not sure what all the numbers after "game turn" mean...

----------------

#gaels
if (iGameTurn == con.i200AD):
self.spawnUnits( iCeltia, (44, 56), (44, 56), con.iGalley, 2, iGameTurn, 30, 0, utils.outerSeaSpawn, 2)
self.spawnUnits( iCeltia, (44, 56), (44, 56), con.iSettler, 2, iGameTurn, 30, 0, utils.outerSeaSpawn, 2)
self.spawnUnits( iCeltia, (44, 56), (44, 56), con.iWorker, 2, iGameTurn, 30, 0, utils.outerSeaSpawn, 2)
self.spawnUnits( iCeltia, (52, 64), (52, 64), con.iGalley, 2, iGameTurn, 30, 0, utils.outerSeaSpawn, 2)
self.spawnUnits( iCeltia, (52, 64), (52, 64), con.iSettler, 2, iGameTurn, 30, 0, utils.outerSeaSpawn, 2)
self.spawnUnits( iCeltia, (52, 64), (52, 64), con.iWorker, 2, iGameTurn, 30, 0, utils.outerSeaSpawn, 2)

 

[Zimzollazim]

Okay I finally was able to fix my problem, I had to actually extract the entire zipped folder with a program, which deleted all the 0kb file so I could copy and paste the mod into the mod directory.

Anyway, I played the mod, I liked it alot. I settled Burdigala and sent my second settler to a tile that is either Marseille or 1 west of it. Sent my Gallic army into rome and attacked the city. Right before, Julius evacuated most the city, allowing me to capture it (well actually raze it since it was a 1 city pop, thus screwing up my UHV)

This is when I notice the British Isle UHV is set as NO from the begining. Better fix that, I kept playing for a while, then the game crashed, oh well, I wanna go give it another go.

Great job, and great Mod, please keep it up, also, I dont know if you are working on this, but are there dynamic civ leaders and civ names yet?

EDIT

Im sorry to say, but the latest release is so unstable, it is unplayable, I wonder what could be done to fix this?

 

[antaine]

hm, for me the british uhv is "not yet." Anybody else with a regular PC install? What do you see?

I did put in dynamic civ names, but not dynamic leaders, as making new 3D leader heads is beyond my abilities. I have some in mind, so if there's a simply way to do it and just use Brennus' head for everything I would certainly add them.

As for the question of the spawn on the British Isles, I think I'm going to have to stick with a straight city-spawn. On a lark, I played the Maya and gave the Celts the boatloads that I wanted to code around that turn...they sailed them to Spain. I then ran the same test and deposited the settlers and workers directly on the islands (no boats)...they just walked them around for a few turns and then left them standing still for ten more. They don't seem to want to settle there for some reason and I don't know why. I've updated their settler and war maps to make them the most highly desirable place for them to settle.

 

[Zimzollazim]

No need for new leader heads, just use boudica. Also, what about stability, any ideas on how to fix that?

 

[antaine]

Well, the leaders I had in mind were all guys..Milesius, Vercengetorix, Briain Boroimhe, Robert the Bruce, and Michael Collins

I am *dying* to fix the stability issue, but without knowing what is actually causing it I don't even know where to begin. I'm open to ideas...

I had done some elaborate scenario programming with timed events in Civ II (which was relatively easy), but this is my first attempt to do anything more than edit the WBSave...prior to this project I'd never touched python or C++, nor had I ever programmed in anything (especially nothing that required compiling). I know I've gotten a lot of help along the way, but still I'm proud of how much I've learned and how far I've been able to push this project.

Seriously, though, if anyone wants to take a crack at recompiling the DLL, the makefile and folders are all still in there, or if anyone knows how to determine *why* a crash occurred and help me remedy the issue I'd be forever in your debt.