Lord Parkin
aka emperor
And first for you is...? 
Celts or Iroquois?
- Thread starter mdm
- Start date
Tomoyo
Fate
Agricultural, duh! 
Agricultural, Seafaring, and Commercial are all the strongest traits. While they don't really get many 'immediate' bonuses like a scout, faster workers, (except Agricultural), they pay off big time. Especially Commercial, on higher levels where corruption is a drag.
And I agree with Doc 100% that Commercial is WAY better than Religious, but on Small / Tiny maps, 2 movement units are enough to take out enemies. Mounted Warriors still get the job done, but less defense = more lost units.
Iroquois are good in almost every situation. For the Celts, the settings have to be right and the map complimentary to the traits.
And I agree with Doc 100% that Commercial is WAY better than Religious, but on Small / Tiny maps, 2 movement units are enough to take out enemies. Mounted Warriors still get the job done, but less defense = more lost units.
Iroquois are good in almost every situation. For the Celts, the settings have to be right and the map complimentary to the traits.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Tomoyo said:
It still is. Never said anything else. Read again
.DocT said:
For my very personnal style, SEA is the best trait I can have. Objectively spoken, COM and AGR are stronger; and here, I value COM slightly higher. If only because you start with Alpha, and AGR won't help you on every map.
Of course, COM isn't that useful below Emperor. Here, AGR outshines it easily.
Why I love SEA? Start with Alpha; even on Pangea, a Curragh will contact more Civs in a shorter time than even a Scout (that is important because you can get something for a starting tech at that time); the SEA commerce bonus isn't effect by tile penalty; I build most cities at the coast anyway ($$$$); I like COM docks; SEA complements nicely with SCI/COM/AGR - and I like the UUs of those 3 Civs; the COM Civs OTOH have either UUs I don't really love (MW, Hoplites, H'wacha, 3MC) or a second trait I don't like (France), or both (Rome); SEA+REL is IMHO the best combo for 20k games (and I like 20k victories);....
Grohan
Bug-hunter
Commercial is better trait than religious and there isn't much difference between the UUs, so I say Iroquois.
EDIT:Iroquois also has best possible starting techs (alphabet, pottery), while Celts have pottery and CB.
EDIT:Iroquois also has best possible starting techs (alphabet, pottery), while Celts have pottery and CB.
MRick
Warlord
Objectivly I'll have to say the Iroquois are best. Starting with Alphabet is better than ceremonial burial, commercial is usually a better trait on the long run, and the upgrade path of the MW is better.
OTOH, I still play more often with the Celts, but that's more a matter of personnal taste. I love the look of the UU. And last but not least my culture is Celtic so it is always more fun to rewrite history so that it become predominant. Expecially if I have the opportunity to wipe out the Romans, the French or the English ! ;-)
OTOH, I still play more often with the Celts, but that's more a matter of personnal taste. I love the look of the UU. And last but not least my culture is Celtic so it is always more fun to rewrite history so that it become predominant. Expecially if I have the opportunity to wipe out the Romans, the French or the English ! ;-)
budweiser
King of the Beers
Celts are built to get it done quicker. They have a shorter path to monarchy. They only have a two turn anarchy. The commercial trait won't settle in until part way through the Middle Ages. If you do a Gallic sword rush, you can have your game won by then. Two defense means fewer losses. Advantage: Celts.
Iroquois are stronger.
The commercial trait is second only to agriculture, which they have too.
A better comparison is the Dutch because they have seafaring that is second only to agriculture, which they have too.
Yes, I value commercial and seafaring equally.
My question would be: why would the Iroquois reseach Chivary?
The commercial trait is second only to agriculture, which they have too.
A better comparison is the Dutch because they have seafaring that is second only to agriculture, which they have too.
Yes, I value commercial and seafaring equally.
My question would be: why would the Iroquois reseach Chivary?
Empiremaker
Human Fish
Iro are better, but I like Celts. I still like REL over COM. REL the effects are very visible-short Anarchy and cheat temples/cathedrals. COM reduced corruption is not directly visible. The UU are similar to me. I have better luck with horeses for MW than Iron for Gallics.
Invisible Rhino
Prince
I always play as a random civ and I just am about to finish my first game as the celts. Gallic Swordsmen are incredible. I wiped out five civilizations with them.
It does however very much suck that they "upgrade" to a slower unit. I wish they replaced Medieval Infantry too, or at least didn't go obsolete until guerillas so I could have kept building them.
As for religous vs. commercial, my favorite civ is the Indians so I like the both
However given the choice I'd take religous. Those short anarchy periods are awesome if you need to change government fast because of an unexpected situation, and half price religous buildings = superior culture!
It does however very much suck that they "upgrade" to a slower unit. I wish they replaced Medieval Infantry too, or at least didn't go obsolete until guerillas so I could have kept building them.
As for religous vs. commercial, my favorite civ is the Indians so I like the both
However given the choice I'd take religous. Those short anarchy periods are awesome if you need to change government fast because of an unexpected situation, and half price religous buildings = superior culture!
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Yeah, I'd have to say the same... I like religious better than most other traits, personally. Sure, the "big dudes" may think it's near the bottom of the heap (and hey, maybe it is) - but I just love it for that cheap early-game culture and the instant government switches. 
budweiser
King of the Beers
The "big dudes" don't like it because for them the early game goes by so fast. They only change government one time to republic and they prefer libraries over temples for culture. So they get little benefit.
Invisible Rhino
Prince
budweiser said:
Well where's the fun in that?
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Exactly!
Incidentally, I haven't played on C3C much... but in vanilla civ3, Democracy was ALWAYS the government to go for. Has Republic become better than Democracy with C3C or something???
Incidentally, I haven't played on C3C much... but in vanilla civ3, Democracy was ALWAYS the government to go for. Has Republic become better than Democracy with C3C or something???
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