CFC Off Topic Turned Me Into a Fascist

[Erik Mesoy]

It's not like racism isn't an every day phenomena even now... Oh right, it is..

Yeah, black people are the unfortunate and disproportionately targeted victims of racist violence.

<sarcasm> The Man is keeping them down, forcing them to be discriminatingly violent against one another. </sarcasm>

Black people are so racist, they kill other black people five times as often as they kill white people.

Statistics from here.

 

[Zardnaar]

So if you admit that it exists, which some right wingers do not, then why do assume people don't have a reason or a right to be upset when they are the victims of it?

I think racism in fine when you are proud of your race, cultural achievements, or if you are not comfortable around certain races due for whatever reason (skin colour, cultural differences etc). Its wrong when you activley persecute someone because of it. I don't have much tolerence for immigrants who go to a country and complain its racist because they can't get a job due to language barriers, or their cultural values are alien to the land they have gone to and some expect that lands cultural mores and values to shift to accomodate them. I wouldn't go to China or Japan and not speak the language properly and expect equal access to employment and i wouldn't go to an Islamic nation and expect them to tolerate me wandering around drunk in public making an ass of myself.

 

[Cutlass]

Yeah, black people are the unfortunate and disproportionately targeted victims of racist violence.

<sarcasm> The Man is keeping them down, forcing them to be discriminatingly violent against one another. </sarcasm>

Black people are so racist, they kill other black people five times as often as they kill white people.

Statistics from here.

Yeah, people confined to ghettos and poverty have more crime. What's your point?

 

[Tekee]

We don't confine them.
I was for a time homeless, well in a homeless shelter, amongst drug addicts and newly landed immigrants from Iraq who spoke only French and no english. There was also a caribeean family who has been in this shelter for 2 years.
The problem is that some people will continue to live like this. The homeless shelter was actually very comfortable in Canada. It had private rooms and a shared kitchen and bathrooms.
What has happened is that while most people plan on getting out of the homeless shelter as fast as possible the Caribean family has tried to stay in it for as long as possible. It was just like a normal apartment. The drug addicts even set up internet and allowed us all to use it wireless.

It is not fair to say that we force them to stay in Ghettos because all is already done possible to forcibly implant blacks into white neighborhoods and affirmative action. Show where and when blacks are discriminated against? Rather they are federally obliged to be hired.

I believe that any ghettosization is their own fault, not everyone in a ghetto is black. It is filled with other demotivated people. Like I live in Canadian social housing and we keep the neighbourhood clean because we are clean people. If you give a dirty person a clean house they will make it look dirty.

 

[Earthling]

Black people are so racist, they kill other black people five times as often as they kill white people

Obviously the conclusion some would present is that actual homicide rates do not differ at all, or blacks are doing better, and cops (who are white by a large majority) only catch, report, or aim to get convictions for black criminals. So the cops are racist.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Yeah, people confined to ghettos and poverty have more crime. What's your point?

I am like unto a tetrahedron; I have multiple points. One is this:
So if you admit that it exists, which some left wingers do not, then why do you assume people don't have a reason or a right to be racist when they are more likely to be the victims of it?

(FWIW, I think black culture is in large part to blame as well.)

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

Hitler wasn't right wing. Since when does the union halls produce a right winger? Never have understood the revisionist history there.

It is national socialism, not national capitalism.

I think racism in fine when you are proud of your race, cultural achievements, or if you are not comfortable around certain races due for whatever reason (skin colour, cultural differences etc). Its wrong when you activley persecute someone because of it. I don't have much tolerence for immigrants who go to a country and complain its racist because they can't get a job due to language barriers, or their cultural values are alien to the land they have gone to and some expect that lands cultural mores and values to shift to accomodate them. I wouldn't go to China or Japan and not speak the language properly and expect equal access to employment and i wouldn't go to an Islamic nation and expect them to tolerate me wandering around drunk in public making an ass of myself.

The problem is that if different ethnic groups live in the same area they will mix. What culture or race does a chinese/black/white/native american have? Probably just hollywood movies and plastic toys. The only way to preserve the world's cultural and ethnic diversity is to give each ethnic group a sovreign nation.

If you are proud of your people you should want to preserve your people. Europeans have died in incredible numbers to defend Europe and the European way of life. We can't dishonour them by giving it away.

Then there are the other problems with multiculturalism. Crime, welfare, harder to get jobs, ethnic conflicts and racism.

 

[PiMan]

It is national socialism, not national capitalism.

Despite what it looked like in the early 30s, by the mid 30s that was an obvious misnomer.

The problem is that if different ethnic groups live in the same area they will mix. What culture or race does a chinese/black/white/native american have? Probably just hollywood movies and plastic toys. The only way to preserve the world's cultural and ethnic diversity is to give each ethnic group a sovreign nation.

If you are proud of your people you should want to preserve your people. Europeans have died in incredible numbers to defend Europe and the European way of life. We can't dishonour them by giving it away.

Then there are the other problems with multiculturalism. Crime, welfare, harder to get jobs, ethnic conflicts and racism.

How does an obvious nationalist such as yourself manage to appeal to "the European way of life"? I would have thought that the idea of a unified European way of life would be contrary to the idea of giving every culture and ethnic group their own nation.

And multiculturalism doesn't lead to racism, its whole point is to prevent racism. Any society that is racist, isn't multicultural. Monoculturalism leads to racism.
I think you may be confusing the idea of 'multiculturalism' with a situation of many cultures in one area. Multiculturalism is a government policy that takes advantage of what different cultures have to offer, and approached correctly, will lead to lower crime, better employment opportunities, no ethnic conflicts and minimal racism.

I am proud of my people, especially when we demonstrate genuine multiculturalism.

 

[Cutlass]

I am like unto a tetrahedron; I have multiple points. One is this:
So if you admit that it exists, which some left wingers do not, then why do you assume people don't have a reason or a right to be racist when they are more likely to be the victims of it?

(FWIW, I think black culture is in large part to blame as well.)

But most violent crime against whites is committed by whites and most violent crime against blacks is committed by blacks. So crime is not a reason for people to support racist policies. And the higher crime rate among blacks is exclusively an artifact of the poverty and hopelessness many blacks live in as a result of racism and discrimination.

 

[Traitorfish]

I think racism in fine when you are proud of your race...

...Except that the very concept of race is a scientific absurdity, so to be proud of your "race" is just kind of dim. Ethnic group, nation, tribe, culture, whatever, fine, but "race"? You may as well be as proud of your phrenological skull-type.

Remember, "racism" refers to a scientific belief in the existence of monolithic sub-species within the human species, and is "wrong" in the sense of being factually incorrect. If you wish to abandon racial prejudice, which is what Zardnaar seems to term "bad racism", you must first abandon your archaic, unscientific concepts of "race".

 

[Erik Mesoy]

But most violent crime against whites is committed by whites and most violent crime against blacks is committed by blacks. So crime is not a reason for people to support racist policies.

That's easily explained by 1) whites being more numerous than blacks and 2) a large fraction of homicides being against family members or close acquaintances.
Per person, though, as we saw above, blacks are seven times more likely than whites to commit violent crime against whites. Blacks constitute about 12% of the US population (dunno if my source for this is using the same definition as the BoJ, though) but are committing a lot more than 12% of homicides.

And the higher crime rate among blacks is exclusively an artifact of the poverty and hopelessness many blacks live in as a result of racism and discrimination.

[citation needed].
The information I quickly found on Google is against you, BTW.
http://www.infoplease.com/finance/economy/people-poverty-characteristics.html
About three times as many white people (27M) as black people (9.4M) live in poverty as of 2008.
Harking back to this chart:

I don't see white people at 3x the rate there. That's "poverty", which is measurable. Got any citations for "hopelessness"? You're going to need some very good sources if you want to stand by your use of the word "exclusively".

(Or you could accuse me of being a racist. )

 

[Tekee]

Right we need to fix blacks. It is because we allow and expect that blacks act like this because if we do not allow them to act like this it is racist.
In wikipedia it is called a "self-perpetrated stereotype"
They make the stereotype and perpetrate it. And most absurd is that the root of the problem (blacks) is not allowed to be examined because it is racist.
I don't believe that we need separate countries for each race. Rather it should just not be tolerated this crime culture. I consider sagging pants a sign of low-life criminal.

 

[Cutlass]

That's easily explained by 1) whites being more numerous than blacks and 2) a large fraction of homicides being against family members or close acquaintances.
Per person, though, as we saw above, blacks are seven times more likely than whites to commit violent crime against whites. Blacks constitute about 12% of the US population (dunno if my source for this is using the same definition as the BoJ, though) but are committing a lot more than 12% of homicides.
[citation needed].
The information I quickly found on Google is against you, BTW.
http://www.infoplease.com/finance/economy/people-poverty-characteristics.html
About three times as many white people (27M) as black people (9.4M) live in poverty as of 2008.
Harking back to this chart:

I don't see white people at 3x the rate there. That's "poverty", which is measurable. Got any citations for "hopelessness"? You're going to need some very good sources if you want to stand by your use of the word "exclusively".

(Or you could accuse me of being a racist. )

Yes, there are a lot of poor whites. But many more of the poor whites are rural. Where there is less concentration of people, there is typically less crime. Blacks face inferior education. Discrimination in employment and housing. A government that uses very thinly veiled racism to win elections and neglect of them, when not open hostility while in office. A black is more likely to be falsely convicted of a crime. And more likely to be arrested for no reason other than that they are black. If convicted of an equal crime as a white, is more likely to get a more severe punishment. Music, sports, and crime are the best chances to get out of poverty for poor blacks. Education and hard work are not (at least in the perception of many of them).

In short, a poor black person simply has less reason to have any respect for society or laws or other people. The life experiences of poor whites and poor blacks in the US are in no way comparable.

 

[Quackers]

If I was a White living in US I'd wish the demographic minoritisation of US would happen faster. Than I could complain about the "man" keeping me down and blame everyone else for my personal failings.

 

[Cutlass]

If I was a White living in US I'd wish the demographic minoritisation of US would happen faster. Than I could complain about the "man" keeping me down and blame everyone else for my personal failings.

That doesn't make the smallest shred of sense. Even when white people go into the minority, they will still control most of the nations wealth. Further, you make the fallacy that many American conservatives make in their utter and complete contempt for personal responsibility. American conservatives claim that the victim is always responsible for what is done to them. But that the vicimizer is blameless. So the question really is not are minorities responsible for doing the best they can to overcome the obstacles placed in their path, Many of them do, many of them can't. The real responsibility lays with the people who placed the obstacles there to remove them and mitigate the damage that they have done.

 

[Quackers]

This is where we differ because I don't believe people are as horrendously racist as you believe even when their is a Black President in the White House! White people as a whole don't discriminate against blacks as much as in the 70s or 80s - their is black president for god sakes. I'm not an "American Conservative" btw I'm a British conservative my outlook is from the other side of the pond. I don't believe a "victim" is responsible for what they go though like in a crime - but I can't stand all the "I live in a ghetto" - a ghetto is just a load of buildings they make it the ghetto. Than their feelings are increased massively when you get fools like Al Sharpton who make piles of money out of this by exploiting black entitlement and victimhood along with the ACL which doesn't really help any black people.

 

[Cutlass]

You don't really have any understanding of the American condition. Yes, there are more opportunities for blacks than their used to be. And the best of them are taking advantage of that. And most Americans are no longer so racist that a black man cannot become president. But to think that all racist policies, or the residual effects of racists polices, do not continue to disadvantage very large parts of the black population is just ignoring reality. So if the upper ability black people can overcome that and have great success, good on them. And if many in the middle are doing a pretty good job of overcoming those handicaps imposed on them, then good on them as well. But the fact remains that millions of them cannot overcome the handicaps imposed on them. Not without help. And refusing to recognize that is the same as advocating placing those handicaps in their way in the first place.

 

[Quackers]

I'm confused what are the residues of racist policies from the past? How are they putting 1/3 of black men in jail? I'm not advocating a return to segregration or Jim Crow racist laws again but even during the 1950s blacks had lower crime, more married families and generally happier (prolly) than the majority are today. The reason they are so messed up is all the pop culture ramming it into them how opressed they are by evil white folk, a growth in the massive multi-billion dollar race-relations industry which benefits folks like Al Sharpton to perpetruate black victimhood by exploiting inter-race related crimes. These do zero favors for blacks.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Cutlass:
[citation needed].

Put up or shut up. Basically, assume I said [citation needed] to all the claims in your post at #353 except that there are a lot of poor whites, and most of the stuff you said later.

Also, let me remind you of the forum rules:

A black is [...] more likely to be arrested for no reason other than that they are black.

I just demonstrated a reason: A black is seven times more likely to have committed a homicide. You agreed here that there's a higher crime rate among blacks, although you blamed it on poverty (which I rebutted) and hopelessness. (Does that absolve them of responsibility for crimes or something? )

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate [...]

 

[Cutlass]

I'm confused what are the residues of racist policies from the past? How are they putting 1/3 of black men in jail? I'm not advocating a return to segregration or Jim Crow racist laws again but even during the 1950s blacks had lower crime, more married families and generally happier (prolly) than the majority are today. The reason they are so messed up is all the pop culture ramming it into them how opressed they are by evil white folk, a growth in the massive multi-billion dollar race-relations industry which benefits folks like Al Sharpton to perpetruate black victimhood by exploiting inter-race related crimes. These do zero favors for blacks.

I agree that people like Sharpton do no favors for blacks. Whether he is an opportunist, or just excessively radicalized, or some combination of the 2, or some other factor, I don't know. But the fact that some black leaders are like Sharpton does not change the fact that many blacks cannot afford to move to places with low unemployment and good schools. It has been a policy to have crap schools in places that are overwhelmingly black. There is simply less opportunity for the poorly educated in the US to succeed. Blacks do not have equal job opportunities. Not only is unemployment higher where they live, but there is notable discrimination in what jobs do exist. It is an institutionalized permanent underclass.

One thing America definitely inherited from from our English fore bearers is this concept that you can treat people like crap forever and that they have no reason or right to get pissed off over it. Well it's not true. When you treat people like crap, they do get pissed off. And they are in the right to do so.

So there has been historical discrimination. And there is current discrimination. Just somewhat less of it. There has been historical
oppression. And there is current oppression. Just somewhat less of it. And there is historical treating them like crap. And there is current treating them like crap. Just somewhat less of it. conservative politicians still run on platforms of policies to hurt black people. They just disguise it a bit. No one is fooled. They still make appeals to racism to attract voters. They just disguise it a bit. No one is fooled. Ronald Reagan announced he was running for president in a place he had absolutely no connection to. A place famous for one thing, and one thing only, and that is the murder of people fighting to give black people equal rights. That didn't go unnoticed. By either side.