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Challenge-V-08

Discussion in 'Hall of Fame Challenger Series' started by Ozbenno, Jun 4, 2011.

  1. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we are running a series of ten games called the Hall of Fame Challenge Series. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings of one of the games will be counted towards the Challenge.

    (*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!

    Settings:
    • Victory Condition: Score (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
    • Difficulty: Monarch
    • Starting Era: Ancient
    • Map Size: Standard
    • Map Type: Any
    • Speed: Normal
    • Required: One City Challenge, No Vassal States, No Tribal Villages
    • Civ: Any
    • Opponents: Any
    • Version: 3.19.003
    • Date: 6th June to 6th October 2011
    The highest score wins.
     
  2. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    hmm... occ for score...
    so is it wonder-spamming that is called for? interesting.:eek:
     
  3. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    This one came from an idea from shulec, so hopefully he can enlighten us on the right tactic! Population/wonders/techs are all important here I would think.
     
  4. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    Score works by the final score you get, right? I mean - a game could conceivably be count for a domination win and a score win, right? Not this one, of course, but in general.

    I'd think that conquest would be the best way to win, no?
     
  5. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    I think some form of diplomatic may be best. Less effort building units.
     
  6. cas

    cas Emperor

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    is there any link that gives specifics on how score is calculated ?

    I never go for score and when I see anyone else do it, they are dom games with lots of cities.

    How much does pop count compared to wonders compared to finish date...etc.

    cas
     
  7. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I know someone (The Hawk or Sun Tzu I think) posted a link in a (very) old gauntlet but I can't seem to find it.

    Basically, your in game score is made up of 4 components, land, population, wonders and technologies researched. This score is then scaled depending on the year of your victory.

    In this game your land is pretty much going to be fixed, so the other 3 (and the year of victory) will determine the winner here. Diplo (as shulec said) is probably the best option, maxing out population and wonders along the way.
     
  8. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    You can always see your Score (given the assumption that you win in the current turn) by hovering your cursor over your entry in the list of all known Civs in the game overlaying the map in the lower right corner. It will show you your final Score (dependent on the turn/date when the game is won) and also your Raw Score (where the turn/date when the game is won is not yet). It also breaks down your Raw Score into the four possible categories of Population, Land, Technologies and Wonders. For each of these four categories, you are given the Raw Score and count of that category you possess. The counts shown are your total Population, total Land plots with at least 20t of possession, total Technologies possessed, and total Wonders multiplied by 5. The "total Wonders multiplied by 5" is simply my recent observations in games ending in BC or early AD. I'm guessing that Palace and Great Wonders are worth 5 each; not sure about the value of having National Wonders.

    Your final Score is based on the Raw Score by a complicated formula, which is essentially exponential; see my post linked below for a concise explanation. Thus you want as high as possible a Raw Score as early as possible to get exponentially high Scores. The issue is early Eras, such as before Calendar, have severe limits on City size as well as numbers of Cities, so simply winning earlier and earlier doesn't get one the highest possible Score. The optimal Score is some time after spamming Sid's Sushi to all your cities on a map with huge numbers of seafood resources like the "Big and Small" Map. This must be done as early as possible, to also get maximum effect of the exponential part of the formula.

    There are a couple of strategy threads that explain Score very well. I looked them up for the recent G-Major-90 Deity Score Gauntlet. Here's my post in the gauntlet thread that attempts to explain Score:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10295490&postcount=11

    Since this is One City Challenge, you must support the largest possible Population in your Capital, so Globe Theatre is essential and National Park would be good too. Also, you would simply found Sid's Sushi in your Capital (DO NOT SPREAD it; otherwise everyone will want to keep there seafood to themselves rather than trade it to you.

    Good luck!

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  9. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    What's the biggest city you can hope to acheive before score date bonus decay rate is greater than pop growth rate?

    Is that pop big enough difference from a more normal OCC game where you pull the victory trigger a lot earlier than Sushi?

    What's got me thinking about this is that normally you have Sushi power in a LOT of cities, so that the food bonus (pop base score growth) is multiplied by the number of cities its spread to. Here, its only getting spread to one city, so the amount of food generated (civ-wide) is pretty meager for the amount of time. Of course, more time means more wonders and more tech... but how much is enough?

    I can't (be bothered to) figure out the mathematics of it, so I'll probably have to experiment a bit to get a feel for it. And anyhow, I'm not the calibre of player who can easily choose when to acheive victory (or even to acheive victory :lol: ) so its purely academic at this stage. But it sure makes an interesting variation on a score maximization game. :goodjob:

    Edit to add: I notice that PA's are enabled... perhaps the goal is simply to max your PA partner's pop???
     
  10. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    You don't get any points from your PA partner's population/wonders I don't think. It will help you with tech points only I think.
     
  11. cas

    cas Emperor

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    Is National Park for the specialists ? Do specialists and settled great people count toward your population ?

    Or were you suggesting NP for the health bonus and a few extra techs ?

    cas
     
  12. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I assume NP for the health bonus, allowing massive population.

    Well I'm on the board and in 1st place now :goodjob: :scan: :lol:

    22,000 points for a early AD religious victory, built a few wonders (was playing Bismark) and had pop of 10 or 11. Was just a game to see what could be done. Will now play a UN game as Liz, aiming for a 1500s/1600s win with large population.
     
  13. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    I was originally just thinking of its Health bonus to support a massive Population.

    With Sid's Sushi and a Granary, it may be possible to add 1 Population per turn, once sufficient Sid's Sushi resources are traded for.

    National Park can also be for specialists.

    No, I'm fairly sure that Great People do NOT count towards Population.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  14. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    I've got a wonderspam game going that looks about like a 15-1600 UN finish. This approach will be tough to beat 22000, judging from my "score for finishing this turn" which is so far steady about 21000... it will be interesting to see how much sushi helps. (Using Big & Small, low seas, massive continents, playing inland with irrigated rice, 2 irrigated corn, and cows, 3 hills, 2 plains, the rest grass - formerly forest).
     
  15. Dynamic

    Dynamic But not hurry

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    You can use my excel score calculator.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    I managed a score of 27k, using Louis. Religous victory 375bc.

    The creative helps to get that extra border pop, as land counts for more score than pop (maxed at 9) , industrious helps with wonders. If I had concentrated on missionaries, I could have got 29k, but I built the 'mids. It was a mistake.
    Oracle, AP, ToA & SH were well worth it.
     
  17. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    I got pop to 35 with sushi. Took too long, though. Under 17000... didn't finish the game since getting the votes was going to take time since I messed up with PA's on(and my biggest voter teamed with my opponent :lol: ).

    I think for my skills, the earlöier I finish, the higher my score. So religious it will be. Doubt I do as well as neilmeister, though.
     
  18. colonelmustard

    colonelmustard Chieftain

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    For the in-game score, pop seems heavily weighted. 20-turn culture is harder to achieve in an OCC, and wonders, I believe, are 16 points a piece, including the palace. Since we use the weighted HOF score rather than the in-game score, that does seem to be heavily weighted toward winning earlier rather than later. So, my guess would be that these settings will be a balance of the quickest pop, tech (6*era), 20-turn cultural borders, and wonders, over the highest possible growth without regard to time. Anyone know how the score we use is calculated from the in-game score? :crazyeye:
     
  19. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    The in-game Score shown when you hover the cursor over your Civ in the list is what counts. The weighting is 50% Population, 20% Land owned (for 20+ turns), 20% Technology and 10% Wonders.

    See post #8 in this thread, for a link to my post in the G-Major-90 Deity Score Gauntlet thread on this subject. That post links to a couple good articles that define Score very well.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  20. Walter_Wolf

    Walter_Wolf King

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    It took just a few minutes over an hour for this one.
    Very simple "strategy" is needed here. The key points are:
    1st: an expansive leader for the health bonus.
    2nd: hereditary rule for happiness.
    3rd: a few wonders (any) for points.
    4th: a few GP for lightbulbing (tech POINTS are crucial, not features).
    5th: food heavy capital for the poulation.

    I took an average start position with 2 corn, pigs, marble, ivory, and three (farmed) flood plains on a pangea, high seas map.
    I played as Peter for the health and GPP points. Built Stonehenge, The great wall, Oracle (took free Monarchy for HR), and a few more wonders.
    Lightbulbed Theology, and a few more techs, the rest was traded for, as I didn't have a single cottage, so my tech rate was pretty poor.
    After building the AP, I built the Temple of Artemis, and Hagia Sophia just for the score.
    It took 3 or 4 turns of voting before I had victory, but I managed to raise my population to 20 in the meantime.
    I finished in 720 AD, turn 146, which is the 1st third of the timeline. I don't think I would have scored this much by finishing earlier (1st quarter of the game), because my population was much lower at the time.
    I've only been building warriors between wonders and missionaries for raising the happy cap. I didn't hook up any metal, so the cheap warriors kept my build queue free.

    This is a screenshot of my city at the end turn.

    Spoiler :

    Walter OCC DV.JPG


    I was one turn away from the Mausoleum. More points. Also, now that I look at it, I settled two prophets in the city. Could have bulbed Divine right instead.

    Also, my initial plan was getting a few great merchants for the +1 food, but I am not sure if bulbing is a better option.

    I'll probably try to do better when someone beats this one.

    cheers
     

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