[GS] Changes that wish to be in GS

[Lily_Lancer]

For me, I wish the knights to be consuming both horse and iron, as well as with reduced strength.

Knight without horses shall not be appropriate.

 

[acluewithout]

For me, I wish the knights to be consuming both horse and iron, as well as with reduced strength.

Knight without horses shall not be appropriate.

@Sostratus Seems to think Heavy Cav will need two resources based on the Equestrial Orders Card (does anyone have a screen cap of that?). That makes sense to me too, with Heavy Cav needing the equivalent Melee resources and Light Cav resources (so Knights need iron and horses, and the new HC unit needing niter and horses).

But. I thought some of the screen shots of units in he Hungry game suggested only horses were needed, which would be a bit rubbish.

Separately, I’m hoping Anti-Cav costs get revised down, and their promotion tree gets a rework. Melee get +1 movement much sooner, can get an additional +7 against them in attack at Tier 1, and can defend v ranged which AC can’t do at all.

I’m also hoping bombards get some better defence versus ranged attacks and rams get nerfed.

Lastly, I’m really hoping IZs get a slight adjacency bonus buff, workshops get a small buff (eg maybe + 1 housing and or additional yields for some bonus resources) , there’s some additional benefits to colonial cities (eg additional diplomatic favour).

 

[nzcamel]

"Changes that wish to be in GS"

A wait command!!! For all that is good an decent in the world...lol

 

[Sostratus]

That makes sense to me too, with Heavy Cav needing the equivalent Melee resources and Light Cav resources (so Knights need iron and horses, and the new HC unit needing niter and horses).

As that Horseback riding quote says - a man on a horse is spiritually, as well as physically, superior to a man on foot. I know Heavy Cav has been OP through most of history, and it is in the game, which is fine - it just needs to reflect that in cost/access so that there can be some semblance of balance between the unit lines we have.

For me, I wish the knights to be consuming both horse and iron, as well as with reduced strength.

I don't the knight unit itself is the problem -they wouldn't need reduced strength if pikes were fixed. I can show via graphs that then knights wouldn't be any different than spears vs heavy chariots.

I have a number of tweaks on my wish list but a lot of work to do, so maybe I'll have to come back to this thread...

 

[acluewithout]

I’m hoping that if GS doesn’t rebalance the Military side properly, we could maybe sort things out via a community military patch. That could be tricky with resources though - if FXS don’t have dual resource requirements for at least some units, it might be impossible to mod that in.

It’ll be a big missed opportunity if Knights don’t need horses and iron, and HC don’t generally have dual resource requirements.

 

[criZp]

culture districts getting adjacency from luxuries would be nice. I find myself rarely building them since they never get any adjacency unless the rare occation where I build a wonder.

cavalry should have a penalty for fighting in rough terrain and for attacking city walls, and anticav should not have that ridiculous weakness to melee

I’m hoping that if GS doesn’t rebalance the Military side properly, we could maybe sort things out via a community military patch.

what exactly turns a mod into a "community patch"?

 

[acluewithout]

...I have no idea, really.

I guess if something is developed based on analysis on these forums, has the support of most people, and no strong objections from anyone here? It’s a consensus sort of thing I guess.

I guess it’s a mid not a patch, but if enough people support it, and it’s really just focused on balance tweaks people feel FXS “should have made themselves” then I guess one could call it a “patch”...?

 

[criZp]

alrighty, then I get what you mean.

 

[acluewithout]

culture districts getting adjacency from luxuries would be nice. I find myself rarely building them since they never get any adjacency unless the rare occation where I build a wonder.

cavalry should have a penalty for fighting in rough terrain and for attacking city walls, and anticav should not have that ridiculous weakness to melee

I’d agree with nerfing Light Cav a little, and your suggestions are good, but I think Anti-Cav’s weakness to Melee is fine. If making them cheaper didn’t buff AC enough, they could maybe just use some better situational bonuses, eg better defence on hills.

I’m a bit lost why you think Theatre Squares need a buff. They’re already very powerful. Their culture output comes from works not adjacency. A few early Writers are phenomenally good. I find some city centre, Commercial Hub, Theatre Ditrict triangles work pretty well. I might even run cultural projects to grab some Writers.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Major changes I want:
Persia Satrapy ability- It bugs me that a satrap is a governor, yet they have nothing to do with the bonus. More gold and culture from internal trade routes from the destination city if they have a governor.

Chateau: Just give it housing, it's literally a big house. On that note the Pa should provide housing as well since it was a fortified village.

Horses not needing Animal Husbandry to be seen.

New unique ability for Gilgamesh because Epic Quest doesn't work: Call it Cradle of Civilization and give it some sort of bonus for founding cities adjacent to two different rivers although they can keep the tribal village reward. Let the city state levying go to Gilgamesh's ability.

Name Changes: Water Park needs to be Amusement Pier, Warlord's Throne needs to be Throne Room.
Minor changes not needed but would be nice:

Theater Square: Adjacency bonuses from city center would be nice since many theater districts are located near cities downtown but not really important.

Name Change: Audience Chamber to Assembly Chamber- to me the bonuses sound more suited towards an early game senate or republic delegate building, but maybe that's just me.

National Park requirements and only using faith to purchase a naturalist. I can understand not building one but at least purchasing one with gold would be nice.

Workshops: I don't find IZ or production to be as bad as some but I think it would make since if maybe lumber mills gave an adjacency bonus to at least the workshop. Maybe not even adjacency bonuses but more production for every lumber mill in the city.

More exclusive buildings: It would be cool if we had more of these maybe one for every specialty district. To work we would probably have to have districts go up to maybe four buildings.
Campus has the choice of either an Observatory, if adjacent to a mountain, or a Conservatory Greenhouse if adjacent to two or more rainforest tiles.
Theater Square has the choice of an Opera House with a great work of writing and two music slots or a Cinema with two great work of writing slots and one music slot.

I'm sure I will think of more later.

 

[criZp]

I’m a bit lost why you think Theatre Squares need a buff. They’re already very powerful. Their culture output comes from works not adjacency. A few early Writers are phenomenally good. I find some city centre, Commercial Hub, Theatre Ditrict triangles work pretty well. I might even run cultural projects to grab some Writers.

I'd prefer if they reduce the culture of great writing and give a more achievable adjacency to the district instead. Trying to put districts in spots that give good adjacency is part of the fun.

 

[acluewithout]

Major changes I want:
Persia Satrapy ability- It bugs me that a satrap is a governor, yet they have nothing to do with the bonus. More gold and culture from internal trade routes from the destination city if they have a governor.

Chateau: Just give it housing, it's literally a big house. On that note the Pa should provide housing as well since it was a fortified village.

Horses not needing Animal Husbandry to be seen.

New unique ability for Gilgamesh because Epic Quest doesn't work: Call it Cradle of Civilization and give it some sort of bonus for founding cities adjacent to two different rivers although they can keep the tribal village reward. Let the city state levying go to Gilgamesh's ability.

Name Changes: Water Park needs to be Amusement Pier, Warlord's Throne needs to be Throne Room.
Minor changes not needed but would be nice:

Theater Square: Adjacency bonuses from city center would be nice since many theater districts are located near cities downtown but not really important.

Name Change: Audience Chamber to Assembly Chamber- to me the bonuses sound more suited towards an early game senate or republic delegate building, but maybe that's just me.

National Park requirements and only using faith to purchase a naturalist. I can understand not building one but at least purchasing one with gold would be nice.

Workshops: I don't find IZ or production to be as bad as some but I think it would make since if maybe lumber mills gave an adjacency bonus to at least the workshop. Maybe not even adjacency bonuses but more production for every lumber mill in the city.

More exclusive buildings: It would be cool if we had more of these maybe one for every specialty district. To work we would probably have to have districts go up to maybe four buildings.
Campus has the choice of either an Observatory, if adjacent to a mountain, or a Conservatory Greenhouse if adjacent to two or more rainforest tiles.
Theater Square has the choice of an Opera House with a great work of writing and two music slots or a Cinema with two great work of writing slots and one music slot.

I'm sure I will think of more later.

I agree with a lot of that. And, OMG, yes for Persia. How does Billy Ray Cyrus not get some Governor Related bonus!?! It says it in the name!!

Two points though.

First. Theatre Squares do get adjacency from a City Centre ... you just have to build the Theatre Square in a triangle with say a Commercial Hub. I find that works pretty well, and makes getting that +1 just a little more satisfying.

Second. I’ve tried giving IZs bonuses for lumber mills. They end up way, way too powerful. That’s why I went with +1 for strategic resources. You rarely get crazy insane good IZs, although when you do it’s very satisfying, but you average IZ tends to be just better (around maybe +4 to +6). I’m currently giving Workshops +1 Housing and giving Pastures in that City +1 Food (borrowed from @FearSunn ).

To be clear, while IZs need a small buff, I don’t think lumbermills do. They’re very god for what they are, and GS will make them even more valuable now you don’t want to be provoking draughts by chopping everything.

I'd prefer if they reduce the culture of great writing and give a more achievable adjacency to the district instead. Trying to put districts in spots that give good adjacency is part of the fun.

Yeah, I get that. And that’s a fair opinion.

But I also like having some variety. Having a few “low” adjacency districts, that provide bonuses in other ways, is actually pretty fun.

CC, TD, CH districts can be very fun. Leaving aside the fun of competing for Great Writers, if you can throw in a river, then your TD is getting +1 plus whatever else from writers whatever, but your CH is getting a solid +3. You can hopefully squeeze in a wonder for another +1 culture. And then your Neighbourhoods get +1 appeal from the TD. ... it all adds up.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I don't the knight unit itself is the problem -they wouldn't need reduced strength if pikes were fixed. I can show via graphs that then knights wouldn't be any different than spears vs heavy chariots.

I think I recall those graphs. Compounding the problem is the lack of cavalry ZOC and flanking bonuses, which add an ignoble insult to the mathematically marginalized pikers’ injury. I suppose if you get enough anticav in one place it becomes problematic (and lowering the cost would help). Presently the only place I tend to see this phenomenon of a massive anticav horde is late game Cree.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Ability to sort the list of cities in the information panel by name, age, size, production strength, etc.

A proper unit list.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

For me, I wish the knights to be consuming both horse and iron, as well as with reduced strength.

Knight without horses shall not be appropriate.

It seems like they’re putting emphasis on consuming resources. Horses are kind of a weird resource to consume since horses can be bred. It’s not like civilizations ever had a shortage of horses that I know of. By the middle ages horses were widespread and mostly domesticated and not considered a “resource”.

 

[humble serf]

Name Changes:

Sambadrome > eternal 4,000-year "street carnival"

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It seems like they’re putting emphasis on consuming resources. Horses are kind of a weird resource to consume since horses can be bred. It’s not like civilizations ever had a shortage of horses that I know of. By the middle ages horses were widespread and mostly domesticated and not considered a “resource”.

Agree with this. Even though they had to be introduced to the western hemisphere, their population increased rapidly on a short timescale.

To be fair this is also pretty true of metals. Very few nations that actually had the technology to do metal working couldn't access enough to field military...especially not to the point where it was the prohibitive cost factor. I struggle offhand to recall a "civ" that had "iron working" but then didn't have access to iron. Maybe the IRL trade game was super robust compared to Civ, but this seems a strange way to gate unit production if the devs want to use "historical basis" as the rationale for it.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

Iron and Copper are very common metals. It seems that civilizations throughout history never really had a shortage. In modern times we recycle most of it.

Tin was truly a strategic resource in ancient times.

As we know Oil and Coal are the real concern when we talk about consumption.

In know that there was a shortage of Niter during the American revolution as it was mostly imported from France. But even Niter can be farmed.

I recently read that there is enough Uranium to last us for centuries since it’s one of the most common metals on earth.

 

[humble serf]

I'd see it more like "only a small portion of our warriors are wealthy enough to own a high-quality sword or maintain a warhorse," rather than "we ran out of horses and iron so some of you are gonna have to be spearmen instead."

It's not a perfect system, but it does have a degree of realism. And it makes sense that nations with more pastureland (represented by horse "deposits" on the map) would have a higher number of warriors who can afford warhorses.

 

[Siptah]

In know that there was a shortage of Niter during the American revolution as it was mostly imported from France. But even Niter can be farmed.

The limiting factor of gunpowder was often to have enough of it with you on a campaign / get supplies in time for the next battle and such and not a shortage of the material per se. I hope that attacking with gunpowder units needs niter now to represent that to some extent.