Changing Leader Mechanic in Civ 7

[Patine]

I don't think so, some conquistadores as Pedro de Alvarado start to believe he was the god Tonatiuh, and the Spaniards made the Toltec dream of a united México.

So, one guy with a god complex and another with a myth promotion? There's always a few whackos in every history lesson. Anecdotal arguments trying to disprove large trends have always been something I've been happy to show as the weak arguments they are.

The culture of Mexicas wasnt destroyed, we cann see influence in the food, archteture, even in the way the spanish is spoke on México still have some Nahualt words on vocabulary, main name of places or food.

That's because the actual PEOPLE were still there, but thoroughly subjugated to Spanish rule, converted to Christianity, and, initially, made to labour to encemendias to enrich the Peninsulars. But, yes, their language remained, and fusion food (as we call it now) definitely came into being. That doesn't mean the social, religious, legal, military, and cultural system of the Nauhua and other Mesoamericans was not broken, thoroughly. The stone alteptls were abandoned, and not rediscovered until several centuries later, in many cases. Calling it the same CIV is a stretch too far...

 

[Caesar of Bread]

That is a very good point! The way a country stole for it self a name of an entire continent to design his own nation.
Here in Brazil we find a word to refer to your nation without using just "American", we say: Estadounidense.

Well, what else would we call ourselves? United Statsers?
I remember my dad telling me about that (he lived in Brazil for a few years)
On this topic's note, if you really want to have multiple American leaders, here is who I suggest.

The "Rushmore Four" - The four most iconic presidents.

George Washington
Abe Lincoln
Theodore Roosevelt
Thomas Jefferson

Modern Presidential Heroes -
Dwight Eisenhower
FDR
JFK

Not a president, but is a candidate to add -
Frederick Douglass
MLK
Harvey Milk

 

[Henri Christophe]

Well, what else would we call ourselves? United Statsers?

The whole country should to change it's name.
Once I saw on internet a proposal to United States be called Columbia, but after the Colombia country borns this propose lost forces.
Maybe USA could do as Canadá, take some native american of it's own territory to give a name to the whole country.
The problem the relation of US with Natives aways were a bad relation, took a native name to it's own country sounds hypocrisis.

 

[Patine]

Maybe USA could do as Canadá, take some native american of it's own territory to give a name to the whole country.

"Canada," was derrived from, "Kanata," a Seneca word for, "village," when Jaques Cartier gestued expansively (and in the direction of a Seneca village) and said to a sachem, "what do you call THIS?" (meaning, from his perspective, the sachem's country, which said sachem didn't grasp as such).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I don't think so, some conquistadores as Pedro de Alvarado start to believe he was the god Tonatiuh, and the Spaniards made the Toltec dream of a united México.
The culture of Mexicas wasnt destroyed, we cann see influence in the food, archteture, even in the way the spanish is spoke on México still have some Nahualt words on vocabulary, main name of places or food.

My hometown name is derived from a Spanish translation of Caddo Native American word. That doesn't mean the Caddo Nation or Spanish influence is dominant where I'm from.

That is a very good point! The way a country stole for it self a name of an entire continent to design his own nation.
Here in Brazil we find a word to refer to your nation without using just "American", we say: Estadounidense.

Calling the nation "United States" is fine which is done here also, by leaving off "of America". When referring to the people it's easier just saying "Americans".

 

[Henri Christophe]

When referring to the people it's easier just saying "Americans".

I don't think is easier just saying Americans, because I'm not from US but I'm also an American.
But I need to use some prefix as Latin American to don't be confuded to be a US-American.
Sometimes we add the prefix North American to speak about USA, but it's also confuse because includes Canada and even Mexico.

Before the arrival of Portuguese, the native americans of Brazil (the Tupis) called this land as Pindorama.
What the native americans of US called your country?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I don't think is easier just saying Americans, because I'm not from US but I'm also an American.
But I need to use some prefix as Latin American to don't be confuded to be a US-American.
Sometimes we add the prefix North American to speak about USA, but it's also confuse because includes Canada and even Mexico.

In terms of saying "United Statesian" or "United Statester," just saying "American" is easier.

 

[Evie]

Patine - common story, but not accurate!

We know from Cartier's own writings that he understood Canada to mean a town: his own journal contains a St Lawrence Iroquoian vocabulary where he wrote, in so many words "they call a town - Canada". But he also understood (and in that may have been wrong) Canada to be a specific chief town as well as a generic term for towns; and consequently refered to the region surrounding that town as the land/province/country of Canada, ie, the land/province/country whose chief town is Canada (which the British would do all over again a few centuries later when they dubbed largely the same region, of which the chief town was now Quebec, "Province of Quebec"). Likewise, he refered to the river by which the town was as "River of Canada".

Moreover the Seneca roots are unlikely. The St Lawrence Iroquoian peoples by most archaeological evidence were a separate people, neither Wendat nor Haudenosaunee, though related to both. Even among the older scholarship that does argue for the StL Iroquoians being one of the better known historical groups, most point at Wendat or Mohawk (mostly), or Onondaga or Oneida connections, rather than Seneca. Of course, they spoke related language, so cognates to Kanata exist in many Iroquoian languages, including Seneca.

 

[Marla_Singer]

In terms of saying "United Statesian" or "United Statester," just saying "American" is easier.

What about Essayers? After all the country is called "You essay". It could be "Users" (standing for "US-ers"), or maybe even simply "us" (but that may be interepreted as self-centered).

EDIT: that was only meant as a joke, sorry if it wasn't funny.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Before the arrival of Portuguese, the native americans of Brazil (the Tupis) called this land as Pindorama.
What the native americans of US called your country?

Which ones? There are hundreds, if not thousands, of tribes across the whole U.S. and not one lived in every region so they all have different names for each of their homeland.

What about Essayers? After all the country is called "You essay". It could be "Users" (standing for "US-ers"), or maybe even simply "us" (but that may be interepreted as self-centered).

I've never heard of those before. "Essayer" sounds like someone writing an Essay, and "User" and "Us" are already common English words.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Which ones? There are hundreds, if not thousands, of tribes across the whole U.S. and not one lived in every region so they all have different names for each of their homeland.

Yes, US geography is different of Brazilian geography, where in Brazil we can find out, easily, one tribe more important then others to the constitution of our nation. In Brazilian case the Tupi tribes is way more influential then all others. That is so evident that we have to spoke Tupi Language in all Brazil untill ~1750

But, looking to US history, I think the most important tribe was Iroquois, first, when US is just a British colony, the Iroquois is the only ally of Anglophone people.
And also we have the fact of Iroquois influence the model of governement of US, being the Iroqouis the first United States of America.
So, if I would choice one tribe to represent America I would pick the Iroquois, but now rise the question. How the Iroquois called the continent America? I don't have any knowledge in Iroquois language to even have a clue.

 

[Evie]

The Iroquois were important, but the idea that they were more so than others is a farce. The idea that they were precursors of the United States likewise. "Only ally of the English" is a gross oversimplification of history. They were a rival imperial power to both the English and French who formed alliances and encouraged conflict in their own interest, not simpering friendly servants of the colonists. The English, meanwhile, formed dozens of alliances at different time with different people. Moreover their influence was limited to part of the North-Eastern United States, and essentially nonxexistent further south so large parts of the United States were not influenced by the Iroquois.

There is no tribe so important to US history as to be called "the most important" in any meaningful way. Any attempt to chose one is reductive and ignorant of the sheer diversity of Indigenous people in the future US, and the fact that many of these groups were powerful and influential.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

But, looking to US history, I think the most important tribe was Iroquois, first, when US is just a British colony, the Iroquois is the only ally of Anglophone people.
And also we have the fact of Iroquois influence the model of governement of US, being the Iroqouis the first United States of America.
So, if I would choice one tribe to represent America I would pick the Iroquois, but now rise the question. How the Iroquois called the continent America? I don't have any knowledge in Iroquois language to even have a clue.

The Iroquois have just as much influence over Canadian history, as U.S. history. The most influential tribe from where I would be from would be the Caddo or Karankawa. If you count Texas as a whole, it would be the Comanche. Texas comes from a Caddo word originally translated into Spanish.
That being said the Iroquois I believe called the continent "Turtle Island" but I doubt that would be something we would like to call ourselves. And that would include all of North America, not just the U.S.

 

[Henri Christophe]

the Iroquois I believe called the continent "Turtle Island"

I guess other tribes of North America also have the concept of Americas are a Turtle Island.
Now we need to discover how is "Turtle Island" in Iroquois language and US can start to think to change it's name. Because America is the whole continent!!!

Edit: I found, it's called Hah-nu-nah. So, since then I will start who born in US as Hahnunah!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I guess other tribes of North America also have the concept of Americas are a Turtle Island.
Now we need to discover how is "Turtle Island" in Iroquois language and US can start to think to change it's name. Because America is the whole continent!!!

But why?
The country is called the United States of America, not America. Of course, it's called America in Civilizations because it's just easier.

Changing the country's name to something indigenous I feel would cause more harm, than good.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Just now I realize, I don't need to go so further to found a name to US.
Who born in US isn't American, they are Yankees. So the country should called it self Yankeeland.
And Yankee can have two etymology, the first is a European one who say it is the diminutive of Yan, a commun name on Neederlands
The other I took from Popol Vuh, and I believe is a derivation the word Yaqui.
Yaqui were the white settlers from the north who came to conquer lands. (In my Popol Vuh version of the book it's said the Yaquis are the Toltecs) but don't matter who they are, what matter the Yaqui means white invasiors, the gringos.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Just now I realize, I don't need to go so further to found a name to US.
Who born in US isn't American, they are Yankees. So the country should called it self Yankeeland.
And Yankee can have two etymology, the first is a European one who say it is the diminutive of Yan, a commun name on Neederlands
The other I took from Popol Vuh, and I believe is a derivation the word Yaqui.
Yaqui were the white settlers from the north who came to conquer lands. (In my Popol Vuh version of the book it's said the Yaquis are the Toltecs) but don't matter who they are, what matter the Yaqui means white invasiors, the gringos.

Still wouldn't work.
In the U.S. "Yankee" is a nickname for the residents of the northern states, especially New England, by the ones living in southern states dating back to the Civil War. Southerners don't refer to themselves as "Yankees".

 

[Henri Christophe]

Southerners don't refer to themselves as "Yankees".

As far I know, the Southerners like to call they self Dixie, if they would won the civil war, we could be talking about one Dixieland.
But who won the war was the Yankees, that's why every "American" should also accept be called Yankee.

 

[Evie]

The Yaqui etymology is nonsense, Henri. The Popol Vuh was essentially unknown in Europe until thr nineteenth century, well after the Yankee name became widespread.

Really we should call the United States what the people who live there call it.

Muhrica.

Jokes aside, the United States really cannot and should not be connected to any previous indigenous people in the area. While there were Confederations (what you call "united states" among many Native People (not just the Iroquois), the concept of the union of states was already well established across the world, and certainly not unique to the Iroquois.

This remains true no matter what we call the country. America, if anything, is far more of a continuation of *English* civilization than any native one. (And if we really were to have a leader-change system, England should be offered the choice between Washington/Jefferson/Adams/Lincoln and Victoria at some point in the game).

 

[Henri Christophe]

The Popol Vuh was essentially unknown in Europe until thr nineteenth century, well after the Yankee name became widespread.

But I didn't said the term Yaqui become Yankee via Europeans scholars.
But I believe this word come to be via native americans.
I have on the book The Last of the Mohicans, in that book the Huron called the "Americans" as Yengeese
Who pre dates the civil war, making very plausible the word Yankee have native american roots
Coming from a far concept maia of Yaquis
But when speaked in Huron language it is become Yengeese.
And now a days is just Yankee (Ianqui in Portuguese).