Changing Leader

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I was wondering... is it possible (or is something already included in RoM and I missed it) to change a Leader during the game? I know it happens sometimes with Revolutions, but I was wondering if it's possible to choose to change the leader you've chosen at the start of the game whenever you want and not only when Rev offers you this chance. I think that would be something useful sometimes.

 

[Afforess]

Turn on cheat codes, then do SHIFT-L

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Turn on cheat codes, then do SHIFT-L

Thanks Afforess, I didn't know this trick; anyway I suppose this isn't possible in MP, right? Is there a reason while it was left as a cheat instead of making it available as an option?

 

[Afforess]

Uh, because it's cheating.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Uh, because it's cheating.

Mmm... why should it be cheating? I know it's in the game as a cheat, but why should be a cheat and not a feature? I mean, if I start with Napoleon and then I want to switch to De Gaulle, where's the cheat? I simply change to a different couple of traits of my leader; I will have benefits on one side and problems on another side, exactly as it's at the start of the game when you choose a leader... I don't see any cheat, except the fact that now it's feasible only in cheat-mode. Do you think it's possible to add it as a feature in the game or since it's coded as a cheat that's simply not possible?

 

[Afforess]

Mmm... why should it be cheating? I know it's in the game as a cheat, but why should be a cheat and not a feature? I mean, if I start with Napoleon and then I want to switch to De Gaulle, where's the cheat? I simply change to a different couple of traits of my leader; I will have benefits on one side and problems on another side, exactly as it's at the start of the game when you choose a leader... I don't see any cheat, except the fact that now it's feasible only in cheat-mode. Do you think it's possible to add it as a feature in the game or since it's coded as a cheat that's simply not possible?

Changing Leader's doesn't do what you think it does. I suggest you try it out; and why it's considered cheating will become apparent.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Changing Leader's doesn't do what you think it does. I suggest you try it out; and why it's considered cheating will become apparent.

Well, I tried but it looks like this cheat doesn't work; Shift+L doesn't do anything, maybe you were suggesting Ctrl+Shift+L (CivChanger)? Beside the fact that this doesn't work either (Civ simply hangs), that's not anyway what I was asking in my first post; I don't want to switch civ, but simply change the leader of my civ, perhaps choosing from different leaders owned by my civ. So, is it possible or am I still missing something?

Edit: it looks like Ctrl+Shift+L works only with some maps while it doesn't work in other maps; anyway as I said, that's not what I meant: I don't want to change civ, I'd simply like to change the leader of my civ.

 

[Flay]

It would be nice to be able to change leader let say for every era in the game, after all no civilization has been lead the same way through history, so to have to chose between different leader when moving into a new era looks like a good mix between gameplay and realism.

it would be done the same way you change civic in a way . . .

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

It would be nice to be able to change leader let say for every era in the game, after all no civilization has been lead the same way through history, so to have to chose between different leader when moving into a new era looks like a good mix between gameplay and realism.

it would be done the same way you change civic in a way . . .

Exactly! I don't mind it being at the change of era, I think it should be left to the user to decide when is the right moment for a change of leadership; but starting with an aggressive leader and then switching to a protective one (or the opposite) could be quite interesting!

 

[Afforess]

I don't want to switch civ, but simply change the leader of my civ,

Told you it wasn't what you thought it was. Anyway, this feature would require SDK work. Zappara can't add it, and I won't. It's completely worthless.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Told you it wasn't what you thought it was.

Excuse me Afforess, but I didn't think anything: I asked if a feature was already in the game and you suggested me to check for ANOTHER feature (which I didn't ask).

Anyway, this feature would require SDK work. Zappara can't add it, and I won't. It's completely worthless.

I see, no problem then. Since I'm not able to do it myself, I'll wait for someone else to develope such a mod or I'll live without it. No problem. Thanks anyway.

Edit: By the way, I don't see it as "completely worthless": it can be useful to have for example a Creative leader to expand your borders at the start of the game and then switching to an Aggressive one so that you can have a boost in military to defend your large (in term of borders) empire. And I could make as many example as there are leader traits in the game. Moreover, it adds a challenge in MP games too since you could have to face an opponent who, changing his leader, has a different approach to the rest of the game in comparison to what you expected. I don't see it as "completely worthless" at all.

 

[JanissaryRush]

Try giving away all your cities you can, delete all your units and declare war on everyone. Once your killed you might get the option to take over control of any other civ. Some mods do that, not sure if ROM does.

 

[Afforess]

Excuse me Afforess, but I didn't think anything: I asked if a feature was already in the game and you suggested me to check for ANOTHER feature (which I didn't ask).

The feature I showed you is named "Leader Switcher". From the title of the thread, and your initial lack of details, it was a possible match for what you were looking for. Sorry for helping, I won't make that mistake again.

Edit: By the way, I don't see it as "completely worthless": it can be useful to have for example a Creative leader to expand your borders at the start of the game and then switching to an Aggressive one so that you can have a boost in military to defend your large (in term of borders) empire. And I could make as many example as there are leader traits in the game. Moreover, it adds a challenge in MP games too since you could have to face an opponent who, changing his leader, has a different approach to the rest of the game in comparison to what you expected. I don't see it as "completely worthless" at all.

Sounds exactly like cheating in my book.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Try giving away all your cities you can, delete all your units and declare war on everyone. Once your killed you might get the option to take over control of any other civ. Some mods do that, not sure if ROM does.

Maybe it's my english which isn't very good or maybe it's people keeping on reading what they want... I don't want to take control of another civ; I simply want to change the leader of MY civ. Thanks anyway.

Edit: Sorry JanissaryRush, didn't want to sound rude; I'm simply looking for something else of what you were suggesting.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

The feature I showed you is named "Leader Switcher".

Actually I knew this feature was named "CivChanger", if the name has been changed later, I didn't know it (not to mention the first name undoubtely fits better).

From the title of the thread, and your initial lack of details, it was a possible match for what you were looking for. Sorry for helping, I won't make that mistake again.

I think I explained in my third post what I meant; and I think you understood, even if you suggested me to try the cheat anyway (knowing it wasn't what I meant).

Sorry for asking, I won't make that mistake again.

Sounds exactly like cheating in my book.

Ever considered that other people could have a different idea? As I said in my previous post, no problem, I won't beg you to develop such a feature, especially since I have no way to persuade you. I'll live without that or I'll wait for someone else to develope a similar mod. Afforess, I've always thought you've made a wonderful job with AND and I thank you for that and for being helpful on the forum; I simply think that the way you answered in this thread was a bit harsh. That said, EOD on my side.

 

[Flay]

Maybe it's my english which isn't very good or maybe it's people keeping on reading what they want... I don't want to take control of another civ; I simply want to change the leader of MY civ. Thanks anyway.

I have anderstand EXACTLY what you ask for, and I belive it would be a great feature.

In civ we (the players) get to control one civilization through several millenium.
With only ONE type of leader !!! this is ridiculous.
A leader would regn at most 60 years on his nation, and the same dynasty, (so we can agree with the same "trait"), for maybe some hundreds of year (china).

In ROM and AND, we got plenty new units, building, ressources . . . maybe too much ?
Those Mod we can't live without it, they are great, and make us look at CIV BTS vanilla as a old and pale game.
The AI has been improve, and the Revolution mod is a blast.
A lot have been done with the civic too, and I think the leader change in game wont be a cheat if it's done with inteligence.

I have allways think that the leader traits and civilisation knowledge at start of the game were stupid.
If you chose a civ with let say fishing, but start inland with not even a lake, how that civ did learn fishing ????
And what about a protective leader, or even an agresive one when you are alone on a island.

At start of game I think we should not have any tech, and no traits either.
We chose what nation we want to lead for the fun of it, after all to start with US in 6000 BC is well funny. . .
And though we advance in time, we discover the tech we need, and the traits we need allso, traits should be able to change, the same way we change civic.
This way the Civilisation and the leader are only names for the fun of it.

Will this be cheating ?

 

[Afforess]

The reason this idea isn't feasible, at least not for Civ4, is because Leader's use a lot of RAM up. (As seen by the number of users who can not handle the megapack). There simply aren't enough leaders in RoM for this to be feasible, especially with more than 20 civs in play. Adding enough leaders would make MAF common for everyone. That's the real reason this isn't going to happen.

 

[Flay]

That I anderstand, to change the leader can give computer ressources probleme, but would it be possible to have flexible traits, and that those traits can be change on some condition ?
I know it will be seen like just another type of civic but, the start of the game with both tech and traits has allways annoy me.

I will be difficult a bit:

Game start no tech.
- can it be possible to get tech boost if some ressource and/or terrain is nearby civ border
for exemple if near cost fishing and all sea related tech take 50% less time to be found.
if you got deer, hunting is faster to discover . . .

- Is it possible that Trait will be distributed according to the manner we play, for exemple.

if the player expanded its navy.
if the player build more farms, more cottage more mine . . .
if the player has a large army and he shows aggressivity.
if the player favorise the construction of building with a certain type of bonus (tech, gold, military. . .)

What I mean is that traits will be define by the way you play and not just a fast bonus from the start.

the player if building a lot of farm (the % of farm compare to other improvement) he got the traits agricultural.
The player is building a lot of building with science bonus (the % of those building compare to other building giving bonus that can be traits related) he got the traits scientist.

Sorry for my english I did my best . . .
I hope you get my point. and that this is feasable, and that other than me will found it intersting.

 

[Afforess]

Eh, Sorry for being a jerk; this week is not my week.

Anyway, Dynamic Traits then? would you start out with any traits at all? How would we measure that a player was aggressive, what standards do we use to measure against?

 

[Flay]

I will give it a try and will work further on it if it's something that can be made, and if other than me are interresting in it of course:

Dynamic traits

All player will start with the traits from them chosen leader after all we all are born with some quality? But traits will be dynamically changed through the game.
Traits will have to have some weight, to be measure to each other in order to decide what traits fit for the way the player is playing.
As a short example I will say a player building large Army especially unit gaining benefit from Aggressive Traits, and razing enemy city (include barbarian), will increase considerably the weight for “AGGRESSIVE”. As well if a player builds a big amount of farm but neglect cottage, the traits agricultural will see his weight grow.

Traits should not change every time one get heavier than another, but maybe every xx Years* the 2 (or 3 ?) traits with the biggest weight should be granted to the player.

The first trait must be the one with most weight, but second and maybe third must have a minimum weight to be granted.

*(I will prefer years in front of turn but if that is not possible turn will be fine, but it will have to be adjusted from era to era.)
The weight should be between 0 and 100, it will make it easier for coder if they want to use % I guess and it leave place.

The Traits and their Weight gain:

- Aggressive:
1 for each 10 unit in category melee, gunpowder, hi-tech, assault mech.
1 for discovery of Bonze working, Iron working, civil service, machinery, gunpowder, chemistry, rifling, steel assembly line (2 if first to discover).
1 if build of Barracks, dry-dock, stable.
2 if build of Heroic epic, West point, Red Cross, pentagon, Statue of Zeus.
1 if civic vassalage, theocracy, nationhood, police state, state property
2 per razed enemy city

- Agricultural:
1 per farm.
1 per worker
1 per building with food bonus.
1 if discovery of Agriculture, Agricultural tools, agricultural engineering, animal husbandry, aquaculture, biology, calendar, crop rotation, ecology, ecological
engineering, fermentation, fishing, hunting, (2 if first to discover)

- Charismatic:
1 per happy face (max 10).
1 for discovery of Mysticism, agriculture, animal husbandry, radio, mass media, (2 if first to discover)
1 for building of monument, barracks, stable, dry-dock, broadcast tower.
2 for Building of Stonehenge, heroic epic, west point, Eiffel tower, pentagon.
1 if civic vassalage, theocracy