Chariot Archer - magic unit

[TheMeInTeam]

Wait , my friend, bayonet charges are ok and such, but riflemen were gunpowder units with a knife sticked to the end of their rifle ( after the development of a minimally unobstrutive bayonet, since the first models of bayonets prevented the gun of firing or were quite innefectual as mock-up pike) and not pikemen with a gunpowder weapon attached

Man, if knives worked in real life like call of duty, people would STILL be using them, and probably exclusively in urban situations (nothing like a 10 foot teleport lunge that kills INSTANTLY if you so much as scrape someone's pinky toe. If I could do THAT I would probably bring a knife to a gunfight too).

Anyway, rifled barrels were NOT out-stripped by archery units the way the black powder/early musket stuff was. Rifles had decent range! Maybe they're better @ melee than archers, but they should have some ranged power, even if it's a bit weaker initially.

In real life, cannons got scary quickly and stayed that way. Rifled cannon barrels were serious business! I don't know how archers equal/outrange them!

 

[_hero_]

Chariot archers+enough upgrades for blitz=4 attacks per turn potential. One chariot archer can pretty much level a city's health bar in one turn at this point. Then you just need a horsemen/whatever you want to finish it off.

 

[The Mongol]

I started a new game today and tested out horse archers again. I learned something big. The shock and drill promotions affect both ranged and melee combat! So not only do the horse archers become much more powerful, their promotions work for both horse archers and when they're upgraded to knights.

 

[Blacklanner]

I hadn't realized how strong chariot archers could be with blitz. So if you can get them promoted that much they're some of the best ranged support in the game. at least in terms of raw power. Pre blitz, they're strictly worse than archers in most situations. I find them to be the worst combat unit in the game, including scouts.

If they could attack then move they'd be extremely powerful at maneuver warfare. As is they're too fragile and too weak to be worth the horse. Anything you could do with a (non blitz) chariot archer or even war chariot you could do better with either a horseman or archer. As egypt i'd rather build warriors, although now that i've seen this thread if i get egypt at random i might try to baby 1 or 2 to blitz if i'm going to warmonger early and see how it goes.

 

[delra]

Egyptian version doesn't need horses. They look cool and the whole concept is interesting - but they simply don't cut it in damage.

 

[pi-r8]

I hadn't realized how strong chariot archers could be with blitz. So if you can get them promoted that much they're some of the best ranged support in the game. at least in terms of raw power. Pre blitz, they're strictly worse than archers in most situations. I find them to be the worst combat unit in the game, including scouts.

If they could attack then move they'd be extremely powerful at maneuver warfare. As is they're too fragile and too weak to be worth the horse. Anything you could do with a (non blitz) chariot archer or even war chariot you could do better with either a horseman or archer. As egypt i'd rather build warriors, although now that i've seen this thread if i get egypt at random i might try to baby 1 or 2 to blitz if i'm going to warmonger early and see how it goes.

how are you people getting chariots with blitz early in the game? Blitz requires 100 experience, and chariots only get 2 exp when they attack. So it'll take at least 50 turns to level up, more likely about 75 if you have to stop and heal or search for enemies. By that time, everyone will have midaeval units, and your chariots will only do at most 1 damage/turn.

 

[Blacklanner]

Social policy in honor gives double experience. which cuts to 25 attacks. sometimes you get 3xp rather than 2 (6 with military tradition). Its maybe possible to baby one to blitz before its completely obsolete. I haven't tried to do it.

I haven't played much on immortal, mostly emp/deity so far. The ai tech rate is very poor on emp, i could do it there. Probably not on deity I'm not sure it would be worth the effort even on emp-. I think i'd just as soon have a horse, archer, sword, or uu spear. But you know you want an ancient egyptian gatling gun.

 

[pi-r8]

Social policy in honor gives double experience. which cuts to 25 attacks. sometimes you get 3xp rather than 2 (6 with military tradition). Its maybe possible to baby one to blitz before its completely obsolete. I haven't tried to do it.

You can't really get a third level social policy that fast, though, unless maybe you're playing as France.

 

[delra]

Stonehenge.

 

[pi-r8]

Stonehenge.

OK, so you go for early stonehenge. On higher levels that means going straight for calender regardless of your start, and building it as soon as you can. It'll take about 20 turns to build, and you'll still need a lot of luck to get it first. So your first chariot archer comes out 20 turns later. Then you'll still need about 30-40 turns to level it up (because it still needs to heal and look for enemies, which doesn't go any faster). So that's still 50 turns, minimum, and it's an incredibly risky opening which doesn't give you anything else besides a single chariot archer plus honor.

 

[delra]

I don't like chariots myself, only am telling you how to get enough culture early. All provided yor capital is a right spot and can actually produce the wonder swiftly.

Also, since when going high into Honor tree early is a risky opening. ;-)

 

[Blacklanner]

I wouldn't bother trying this except with war chariots which means egypt and their weak wonder bonus. Henge is easy to get on emperor, but only if you take the 33% wonder bonus social policy most cases. I've failed great library a lot more than henge, and thats not doing a hard beeline

Typically i tech something like mining->pottery->calendar, while building scout->worker->monument->settler-> henge (typically starting 2-3 turns after calander is in. Exact build order depends on the map and ruins, but basically i don't bother to start henge until i have a settler out unless there are no nearby maritime city states and i decide to buy my first settler. Usually i try to get my 2nd policy first as well to maximize hammer efficiency.

I think this is reasonably doable on emp. Slightly slower production on henge, but it should still be obtainable since you don't have to compete with egypt.
I'm gonna try in a few minutes. Planned tech order is mining(if metal/gems start only)->pottery->calendar->animal husbandry->wheel
build order will be scout->worker->monument->(settler if i want one i may skip) -> henge -> military
and just go straight down honor for policies.

Whatever i do is going to be weaker than a cc rush with alex, and probably a standard horse rush as well, but it could be decent and interesting.

 

[Syiss_]

I wouldn't bother trying this except with war chariots which means egypt and their weak wonder bonus. Henge is easy to get on emperor, but only if you take the 33% wonder bonus social policy most cases. I've failed great library a lot more than henge, and thats not doing a hard beeline

Typically i tech something like mining->pottery->calendar, while building scout->worker->monument->settler-> henge (typically starting 2-3 turns after calander is in. Exact build order depends on the map and ruins, but basically i don't bother to start henge until i have a settler out unless there are no nearby maritime city states and i decide to buy my first settler. Usually i try to get my 2nd policy first as well to maximize hammer efficiency.

I think this is reasonably doable on emp. Slightly slower production on henge, but it should still be obtainable since you don't have to compete with egypt.
I'm gonna try in a few minutes. Planned tech order is mining(if metal/gems start only)->pottery->calendar->animal husbandry->wheel
build order will be scout->worker->monument->(settler if i want one i may skip) -> henge -> military
and just go straight down honor for policies.

Whatever i do is going to be weaker than a cc rush with alex, and probably a standard horse rush as well, but it could be decent and interesting.

I haven't tried with Egypt, but I made several attempts with Ghandi (who starts near Marble often). Its pretty much impossible to get Stonehenge AND the Great Library on Emp+. You have to beeline them both if you expect to get them, which includes ignoring worker techs for quite some time. Plus your GL slingshot will suck since you dont have the pre-req's for any good ones.

With Egypt it my be more feasible, esp if get the culture bonus from a ruin which should allow you to grab the wonder production bonus social policy in time to make use of it.

 

[delra]

On higher difficulties you do the sling with a normal Library and a GS.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

@Pi-r8:

The pic in previous page is immortal china. Settled 2 cities and start conquering russia. The three puppets I got there produced enough culture to unlock three policies in the bc. THus the double xp gained from combats. Maximum xp gained from combat isn't 2!!! It can be 5 or higher easy (playing chinese helps for the higher bonus strenght). Fire on flat in priority to do more damages and gain more xp. As you see, the chariot in my pic got 420 xp from 3 wars, but he had blitz (4th promotion) since the second war with the kalifat. Once you have blitz, you are looking at potential 25 xp per turn, and it becomes insane .

Raskolnikov

edit: captured wonders help a lot. Though you should find some in developped conquered capitals.

 

[DarkTempla]

Hi,

Just to share my 2 cents on the war-chariot power:

First I thought, this only works on lower levels, but in my current immortal game I have 2! Super-power level 8 war-chariots!! 5 attacks each! + heal on movement + easily 100%+ against units on flat ground. Man, I took out 3! Civs with those 2, 1 horseman and 1 spearman... I mean... I have 10!! attacks!

I got into war pretty early and went into the honor tree for double xp! Now If they move and attack a city they gain 4x4=16xp - 20 xp per turn! Thats awesome! I love them!!
In the early game you just have to make sure to screen them properly with warriors/scouts (you have a GG, which essentials transforms your scouts into warriors, except you cannot upgrade them later, which is a pretty big drawback, but ok for very early wars).

---> conclusion: I will use them exensively in all my games now!
(I didnt even bother to research archery )

 

[neptune2000]

If they could attack then move they'd be extremely powerful at maneuver warfare.

Wasn't that one of the advantages of real-world chariots, especially the lighter e.g. Egyptian ones?

@Pi-r8:
Fire on flat in priority to do more damages and gain more xp.

Can you explain that? I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean.

 

[iop]

Chariot archers are, in my experience, only good as the Indian War Elephant. The War Elephant gets one fewer move (3), but gets the archer's strength (which makes it competitive with spears), and doesn't get stuck in rough terrain as badly.

It does take a while to power them up, but if you do an early rush (2 elephants, 2 warriors) and if you invest in the honor tree up to Military Tradition (the GG helps, of course), then they become quite strong. Once you get Blitz, you rake in tons of xp, so having plenty of promotions is no problem. Also, to me it looked like drill helped them survive enemy attacks, but that may just have been my imagination.

 

[evanbgood]

A situational unit if I ever saw one. That high mobility is great on flat, pre-road land. I think I'd like them more if there was something more that sets them apart from archers, like the ability to fire and retreat.

 

[stii]

OK, so you go for early stonehenge. On higher levels that means going straight for calender regardless of your start, and building it as soon as you can. It'll take about 20 turns to build, and you'll still need a lot of luck to get it first. So your first chariot archer comes out 20 turns later. Then you'll still need about 30-40 turns to level it up (because it still needs to heal and look for enemies, which doesn't go any faster). So that's still 50 turns, minimum, and it's an incredibly risky opening which doesn't give you anything else besides a single chariot archer plus honor.

I did in fact build both henge and a archer with these policy on deity. Still not even clsoe to 100 exp with him, I had 100 exp knights at some point but shooting units never got that high.