Charles de Gaulle in BTS!

[Elras]

I heard that the reason was to identify Germany with the Aryans, the first known users of the symbol, and instill racial pride.

The sad thing is (and shows how we stupid humans can so easily be lead by
a charismatic leader) if you hold Hitler, Himmler, Goering, etc up to their own
aspired Aryan ideals...blond, blue eyed, firm buttocked....all these nutballs
fail their own test!

Even if the Fascists had won, sooner or later someone would have noticed
this fact.

Cheers
Elras.

 

[Olleus]

Not really. Having blonde hair and blue eyes means that you are Aryan, not having those doesn't mean that you can't be Aryan. Just because A implies B does not mean that B implies A.

 

[rabidveggie]

What is actually ironic is that Hitler was not originally German, he was born in Austria and eventually immigrated to Germany.

 

[Onagan]

I dunno about De Gaulle, I think Joan d'Arc and Charlemagne are more important than him.

Charlemagne will never be added as a French leader, because he's a German

About the hitler discussion, He may not be a good leader for Germany, but at least he changed history. no one can denied that.

 

[flyingchicken]

Charlemagne will never be added as a French leader, because he's a German

Oh sweet irony, what have you done? For we of meager minds know that "Charlemagne" is the name that Karl der Große is known in French!

 

[UnspokenRequest]

Charlemagne will never be added as a French leader, because he's a German

About the hitler discussion, He may not be a good leader for Germany, but at least he changed history. no one can denied that.

He is not more a German than he is a French. He is a Frank.
The Franks were a germanic tribe (which is not exactly the same as germans; for instance other germanic tribes settled in Spain and Italy) that settled in the French regions at the end of the Western Roman empire. Clovis was the leader of that tribe when they settled in the remnants of the Western empire (Mainly in Gaul).

Most historians say today's French are descended from a mix of Frank (associated with the aristocracy) and Gaul (associated with the peasantry), seasoned with a bit of Latin and Norman culture.

Of course, Charlemagne is also related (more politically than ethnically) to today's Germans because of the Carolingian empire relation to the Holy Roman Empire.

 

[ZB2]

if you hold Hitler, Himmler, Goering, etc up to their own
aspired Aryan ideals...blond, blue eyed, firm buttocked....all these nutballs
fail their own test!

Actually they believed the desendants of the Ayran race were Nordic, and strove to make good terms with nordic people, having particular influence in Norway, whos ayran-nordic propaganda capaign had a lot of people enlisting in the German army. These soldiers were noted for fighting much more fiercly; - they were brought to believe that becuase of their nordic-aryan heritage they would never be captured but shot on the spot, so they fought to the death.

 

[UnspokenRequest]

Ci-gît un fameux Cardinal
Qui fit plus de mal que de bien
Le bien qu'il fit, il le fit mal
Le mal qu'il fit, il le fit bien.

the last part translated:
here lies a famour cardinal
who made more bad than good
The good he made, he made it bad
the bad he made, he made it well

Thanks for the translation, but since French is my first language (I'm Québécois), I didn't need it.

I agree with what Oda Nobunaga said of Richelieu.

Had he not been there, I think France would have found itself in the worst of troubles. Marie de Médicis was doing the worst of job as "Reine-mère" and Louis XIII was hardly the leader France needed at the time. On a side note: I'm still amazed by the fact that this unwitty guy was the father of Louis XIV. (BTW, there always were some rumors that Anne d'Autriche and Cardinal de Mazarin were quite close...)

Instead, he set France on the path of a golden age. I'll also add that he was hated because, during the 30 years war, he allied himself with Sweden (Protestants) instead of helping the catholic cause. Richelieu had to choose between Religion and la raison d'État. He chose reason of state. He was a pragmatic.

totally out of subject, but Marylin Monroe epitaph is:
here lies Marylin Monroe, 97 - 62 - 92

Now that is an epitaph!!!

 

[Jan H]

He is not more a German than he is a French. He is a Frank.
The Franks were a germanic tribe (which is not exactly the same as germans; for instance other germanic tribes settled in Spain and Italy) that settled in the French regions at the end of the Western Roman empire. Clovis was the leader of that tribe when they settled in the remnants of the Western empire (Mainly in Gaul).

Most historians say today's French are descended from a mix of Frank (associated with the aristocracy) and Gaul (associated with the peasantry), seasoned with a bit of Latin and Norman culture.

Of course, Charlemagne is also related (more politically than ethnically) to today's Germans because of the Carolingian empire relation to the Holy Roman Empire.

To add a bit to the confusion: Most historians agree that Charlemagne was born near Liege in Belgium (his predecessors, like Pippin the Short, came from the same area), and his primary language was probably "Low-Franconian", the languages of the Franks living int he Low countries, which is a direct ancestor of the Dutch language.

He was burried in Aachen, which is located in Germany, but right on the border with Belgium and The Netherlands.

 

[LAnkou]

well, since there is so much controversy about charlemagne (being german) and Richelieu (being "hated" by people of that time), that explain why Charles de Gaulle lead the race for being the third French leader in civIV

Louis XIV and Napoleon aren't controversial at all, that's why they were obvious first choice...

 

[Evie]

The only controversy *TODAY* about Richelieu is between historians who actually know who he was and what he did (and maybe a handful of rabid anti-monarchists, but there really aren't many of those), and movie-goers who only know him as the evil bad guy of the Musketeers.

 

[Onagan]

i think, that afterall, two leaders is enough. there are more civs with just 1 leader

 

[Andy_Candy]

What is actually ironic is that Hitler was not originally German, he was born in Austria and eventually immigrated to Germany.

Austrians are as much germans as germans living in Germany. In the days before Germany was united in the early 1870's, Austria was the largest of the german states, together with Preussen. Bayern and Sachsen where pretty big too....

 

[Andy_Candy]

Actually they believed the desendants of the Ayran race were Nordic, and strove to make good terms with nordic people, having particular influence in Norway, whos ayran-nordic propaganda capaign had a lot of people enlisting in the German army. These soldiers were noted for fighting much more fiercly; - they were brought to believe that becuase of their nordic-aryan heritage they would never be captured but shot on the spot, so they fought to the death.

They didn't just believe they where the descendants of the aryan race, it's also a fact.

 

[Olleus]

Although some would argue that the Aryans didn't just come from the North, but actualy from India (they travelled north with the invention of agriculture and then started moving back south again a few thousand years later). DNA and language analysis has showed that this is quite possibly true.

 

[Geon]

They didn't just believe they where the descendants of the aryan race, it's also a fact

The indo-european language group probably did originate in the northern india or persian regions, but genetically, I highly doubt that the original "aryans" were blonde hair and blue eyed. An arctic/subarctic climate seems more likely. It's doubtful there's an aryan race, more likely an aryan culture, which isn't the same thing. I realize though you're probably just trolling, but i wanted to reply anyway.

 

[dutchking]

Awwwwwwwwwww, I want Charles du Gualle! That would've been so exciting.

 

[Reprisal]

Charles de Gaulle would be an excellent addition, I think. I wonder what his traits would be: Charismatic, definitely; but I was thinking that Organized or Financial may, in fact, fit as well. He did preside over the construction of the Fifth Republic, which would suggest Organized; and he did have France take part in the European Coal & Steel Community (the precursor to the EU) and that would point to Financial.

If there was ever a Diplomatic trait, I doubt he'd get it as he vetoed the British Entrance into the ECSC (or the EEC, I can't remember) twice.

An annoying man, especially in terms of his meddling in Canadian affairs, but nonetheless great.

 

[dutchking]

Charles de Gaulle would be an excellent addition, I think. I wonder what his traits would be: Charismatic, definitely; but I was thinking that Organized or Financial may, in fact, fit as well. He did preside over the construction of the Fifth Republic, which would suggest Organized; and he did have France take part in the European Coal & Steel Community (the precursor to the EU) and that would point to Financial.

If there was ever a Diplomatic trait, I doubt he'd get it as he vetoed the British Entrance into the ECSC (or the EEC, I can't remember) twice.

An annoying man, especially in terms of his meddling in Canadian affairs, but nonetheless great.

I don't know much about Charles du Gaulle, besides the fact he was a great man. How did he "meddle" in Canadian affairs?

 

[dutchking]

But I don't think he's in BtS because he's at the bottom of every page on the Firaxis site, but what do I know??