Checking in after a decade - later game experience?

[Aswissrole]

Hello all

My, my... it must have been almost a decade since I was last here! I love the concept of C2C and I'm pleased (and a bit amazed) to see development still going strong. Last I played must have been around version 20? I remember the prehistoric bits and early game new additions being awesome. However, the game became slow, buggy and the unbalanced was an issue by the time you got to medieval/renaissance era. I heard that the AI couldn't even handle the later features - let alone space colonization (not that I got that far).

How is the experience now? Are people successfully playing C2C all the way into far flung future? Is the AI able to handle these later eras or keep up with a somewhat capable player?

Going to start up a new game after a decade

 

[Somebody613]

To be honest, C2C is best played as an Eternity Prehistory self-challenge.
The second half of the tech tree is still in beta at best, and I DON'T mean it as far into the future as Space stuff.
AI is still stupid-ish, still builds tons of useless units (but it's currently being hopefully improved, as far as I understand), and it also produces unit-based lag now.
On the other hand, MAFs should be rare (there was IMMENSE improvement in that area, like you wouldn't imagine),so you could technically play it all the way into Space.
But that'd be... boring and... slow.
AI is anything but competitive (still ignores Space altogether), and turn times often kill the mood MUCH before you even lift off the ground, let alone the planet.
Still FUN to play, though.
Honestly, Prehistory itself is a great mini-mod, so to speak - you have all those animals, barbs, neanderthals, barbs-to-civs, and so on.
So, yes, it's a great mod, and it's still getting better, slowly but surely.
VEEERY slowly, though.
LOL!

 

[Aswissrole]

Ah, well sounds like it still got much the same problems - alas. Still good fun for the early history bits I guess.

Does anyone ever play with the later half of the game/tech tree then?

 

[Thunderbrd]

The primary modding group is heavily under the weight of real world obligations sadly. But now and then someone does something amazing and we just had a big breakthrough from flabbert on the AI guidance system. Only to then have him realize that our OOS errors are based on an insane way the core is designed to frustrate him to the point of going back to the idea of rewriting the game from the core - which we have perhaps all become convinced at some point is the way forward. Every effort in that direction has been hung up at some point but I think soon we may overcome even that and you could start hearing news of real progress in that direction. This mod will NOT stop until it has manifested but life's gotta get out of the way for many of us for that to happen and... I think I see a light at the end of the tunnel for myself in that regard if I keep going as things are. Keep checking in. In the meantime the mod is a lot more playable than it was back 'in the day' by a long mile.

 

[Somebody613]

A veeery long mile, indeed.

 

[ScubaV]

Definitely check it out. I first played C2C maybe 3-4 years ago and it's improved a lot since then. I agree that the earlier game is better, probably up to classical or maybe medieval eras. But there's still a lot of fun to be had even if the end result is a foregone conclusion. I'm really looking forward to the unit and AI updates for the next time I jump back in.

 

[Somebody613]

Definitely check it out. I first played C2C maybe 3-4 years ago and it's improved a lot since then. I agree that the earlier game is better, probably up to classical or maybe medieval eras. But there's still a lot of fun to be had even if the end result is a foregone conclusion. I'm really looking forward to the unit and AI updates for the next time I jump back in.

At least once, I've tried to modmod the Tech Tree to make Sedentary Lifestyle and anything beyond it utterly unattainable by tying it to Future Tech in a strange loop.
But I think I did it wrong, because it still had loopholes like gift techs breaching the barrier, so it has to be done more thoroughly.
Anyways, THIS would make for a truly funny self-challenge, where nobody can leave Prehistory EVER, lol.
Would be a pain to play on the actual Earth map (unless you edit some Coast route cheats to enable trans-continental interaction), but would be really fun otherwise.
Note that you technically can expand indefinitely (though VERY slowly) even under such conditions - you do get +food from settling a Great Merchant, after all.
Maybe I should outright make an actual modmod for this, eh?
It's not a new idea (of myself, lol), but it'd have to be done more properly than my previous attempt.

What do you guys (EVERYONE) say?

 

[Maltazard]

I say I'd put the stop at medieval rather than prehistoric. Just before the renaissance food boom. Prehistoric would take up 25% of the game time but you'd still have room for satisfying military units progression and valid pre gunpowder siege options. Play with all the military options like zone of control and expanded castles and whatever.

 

[Somebody613]

I say I'd put the stop at medieval rather than prehistoric. Just before the renaissance food boom. Prehistoric would take up 25% of the game time but you'd still have room for satisfying military units progression and valid pre gunpowder siege options. Play with all the military options like zone of control and expanded castles and whatever.

Well, my point was that Prehistory has certain hard limits that are lifted with Sedentary Lifestyle.
Limited Tribes, limited Gatherers, access to Neanderthals (including those with Hidden Nationality), and so on.
Prehistory IS its own mini-game, lol.
Any further Eras, though, only differ in quantity, not so much in quality, of concepts.

 

[Maltazard]

Indeed, but despite those limits it's not difficult to achieve a 6 city empire by the end of prehistoric with fully improved tiles. The bigger limits for me are the lack of entire unit classes, first off gunpowder units and then flying units and also generally fast wheeled and tracked units and helicopters, so that along limited roads, distance matters more. The more limited selection of civics as well as the lack of the megabuildings (save the ancient customs one). Technologically speaking, there are far less differences between the prehistoric era and the medieval one, than there are between renaissance and industrial.

 

[Somebody613]

"Limited" means that you must prioritize and keep track of your units.
When I get to Workers, I just automate them and... forget about them entirely - they'll pretty much their work eventually or on their own.
But Gatherers DIE at work, so you can't just automate the and NOT keep track of what they're doing (OR NOT).
Tribes/Settlers is a much lesser issue, mostly about strategy of expansion for SLOW speeds (where it takes forever to build a Tribe) - on FAST speeds you can simply build another one.
Also, I haven't exactly checked thoroughly, but I doubt you can get any effective combo of "hidden nationality" and "unlimited good merged combatant units", outside of Neanderthals.
And animal hunting is the most important, again, in Prehistory - later you do get some stuff from them, but either less important, or less useful.
It's a pity you can't tame animals in Prehistory as well - that'd be just awesome to be able to build (or convert) animals that actually have Strength.
You describe the "quantity", whereas by point is about the "quality", though.

 

[diagvro1]

Hi. I personally win the game with 5-6 stone Macemen in Prehistory

 

[Somebody613]

Hi. I personally win the game with 5-6 stone Macemen in Prehistory

How? I mean, Tribal Guardian has effectively defensive Strength of 6 (or is it only 4?), plus defensive terrain bonuses that may be as high as 50-75% in some cases.
Or am I missing something?

 

[diagvro1]

How? I mean, Tribal Guardian has effectively defensive Strength of 6 (or is it only 4?), plus defensive terrain bonuses that may be as high as 50-75% in some cases.
Or am I missing something?

1. Rush wanderer and scouts tech first. At first build a few wanderers and upgrade them to scouts and build a few scouts have like 5-8 and try to gain as many huts as possible with them. Walk with them in forests for protection

2. After build brutes and group them into 3 for more HP and hunt with them animals so they gain upgrades. Have like 4-6 of them to hunt.

3. Rush clubmen tech and upgrade your brutes and see if you can take out any city fast with them

4. Upgrade your clubmen to spiked clubmen and try to destroy cities with them

5. Upgrade your spiked clubmen into stonemacemen and take out the rest of the players out

 

[diagvro1]

1. Rush wanderer and scouts tech first. At first build a few wanderers and upgrade them to scouts and build a few scouts have like 5-8 and try to gain as many huts as possible with them. Walk with them in forests for protection

2. After build brutes and group them into 3 for more HP and hunt with them animals so they gain upgrades. Have like 4-6 of them to hunt.

3. Rush clubmen tech and upgrade your brutes and see if you can take out any city fast with them

4. Upgrade your clubmen to spiked clubmen and try to destroy cities with them

5. Upgrade your spiked clubmen into stonemacemen and take out the rest of the players out

6. All your neanderthal captives turn them into Neanderthal Tracker and escort your captured units to your base. Build gold tech when you can so you get more gold as you rush stone Macemen

7. Win in prehistory

 

[Somebody613]

6. All your neanderthal captives turn them into Neanderthal Tracker and escort your captured units to your base. Build gold tech when you can so you get more gold as you rush stone Macemen

7. Win in prehistory

You entirely missed my question.
Tribal Guardians are effectively Def 4 (2 +100% City Def), plus 25% Fortify, plus random terrain Def up to 75% in some cases.
And I'm not sure, but I think they also have anti-Melee Def as well.
While strongest Macemen are, what, Str 6 (I think)?
That's somewhat good against Tr. G.s in 0% Def territory, but seems useless against those in territory of 50% Def, if not worse.
Or am I miscalculating something?

 

[diagvro1]

You entirely missed my question.
Tribal Guardians are effectively Def 4 (2 +100% City Def), plus 25% Fortify, plus random terrain Def up to 75% in some cases.
And I'm not sure, but I think they also have anti-Melee Def as well.
While strongest Macemen are, what, Str 6 (I think)?
That's somewhat good against Tr. G.s in 0% Def territory, but seems useless against those in territory of 50% Def, if not worse.
Or am I miscalculating something?

I don’t know but upgraded stone Macemen kill tribal guardian especially with surround and destroy. Even spiked clubmen do a formidable job

 

[Somebody613]

surround and destroy

I play without this one, so it may be a huge difference.

 

[ranagrande]

Surround and Destroy does make a huge difference.

Also, Tribal Guardian does not have a bonus against melee, but macemen do, which is another reason this strategy would work.

 

[Maltazard]

The AI doesn't know how to benefit much from the combat mods like surround and destroy, and it doesn't even do very well at all with size matters alone. However, without size matters, I highly doubt this strategy would work. On larger maps, with multiple continents, it's not going to be of much use either. Rushing conquest on a pangaea map, I'm not that impressed, it's perfectly doable on base Civ as well.

What I really wish for is a late(r) eras scenario. Renaissance or later.