Chill! with the Barbarians

[Lee Saxon]

What is going on with 10/12? Barbarians are completely ridiculous. I gave up on turn 54 (of a Classical start)! There's a camp every 7-9 tiles! On [edit: Warlord]!

If that's the game some of you want to play, cool, but it's not for me. On the other hand, playing "No Barbarians" is *too* easy. I think we need a "Chill Barbarians" option which does the opposite of "Raging Barbarians."

 

[zeta]

Agreed. This is not how I want to enjoy Civ V. My playstyle is relatively peaceful, which current settings don't allow. Barbs were designed to be a minor nuisance, not a major threat.

 

[notque]

Agreed. This is not how I want to enjoy Civ V. My playstyle is relatively peaceful, which current settings don't allow. Barbs were designed to be a minor nuisance, not a major threat.

I find the major change is I have to build a few units at the beginning of the game, and I have to manually scout. Maybe I'm just getting good luck in spawns? I've played 3 games so far, all very peaceful, all with a few units early to fight barbarians. It's a mild change to build orders.

What am I missing? It may very well be luck, I'm about to start another game.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

While my first game they were a bit out-of-hand (lots of camps around me), the problem stopped once I went Scout into Warrior and rushbought another with Ancient Ruin's treasure.

Later games they weren't problems at all. IMHO camps shouldn't start with 2 units, but they should spawn more frequently - I've spent 30 turns looking at a barb camp with my Fortified Scout (because I've already done everything else and wanted to farm the brutes as they'd waste HP hitting my fortified forest scout), but he didn't spawn another unit. I found that weird.

 

[Enginseer]

I disagree, in a large map with 22 major civs. Contesting for barbarian camps as an authority civilization is very difficult. With the recent changes, there is more than enough for everyone.

 

[DarkZero]

This seems to be only a problem in weird map scripts that make giant empty lands, on default fractal and continents the amount of camps is really not a problem.

 

[tompliss]

Yeah, I am playing on a "vanilla" continent map, and it seems normal to me. I'd even say that there are fewer barbarian camps than when I played communitas maps with the 10-9 version.

 

[DarkZero]

Yeah, I am playing on a "vanilla" continent map, and it seems normal to me. I'd even say that there are fewer barbarian camps than when I played communitas maps with the 10-9 version.

And that is because unless modified, communitas is one of those maps that creates huge empty lands that apparently spawn all these barbarian camps, in my most recent game I had 3! camps spawn near me right where my 3 expansions would be, after reading these post I was as good as dead but only the initial extra barbarians where annoying, one killed itself in my capital another my warrior killed and the third i guess a city state killed, but after that only a single camp was able to spawn a unit,it was really cool to see them all the brutes upgrade to spearman.

My guess is that after watching some civ 6 games Gazebo wanted to perfectly emulate that, because now just like whit civ 6 a couple of archers first along whit that warrior really helps in the early game to clear those camps, but my suggestion is, ignore the camps until they are on the way of your expansion, use your initial warrior to protect your workers and chances are the barbarians are going to attack city states or other players before they target you.

 

[Gazebo]

My guess is that after watching some civ 6 games Gazebo wanted to perfectly emulate that, because now just like whit civ 6 a couple of archers first along whit that warrior really helps in the early game to clear those camps, but my suggestion is, ignore the camps until they are on the way of your expansion, use your initial warrior to protect your workers and chances are the barbarians are going to attack city states or other players before they target you.

I fixed bugs in existing barbarian code and that's what we have now. If users would like a 'relaxed' barbarian setting I can probably add that.

 

[Magean]

I fixed bugs in existing barbarian code and that's what we have now. If users would like a 'relaxed' barbarian setting I can probably add that.

Wait, was that dysfunctional code from Vanilla or from CBP ? Are barbarians now what they have always been supposed to be ?

 

[Gazebo]

Wait, was that dysfunctional code from Vanilla or from CBP ? Are barbarians now what they have always been supposed to be ?

Dysfunctional vanilla code. Stuff they disabled (intentionally or not) and just...never re-enabled.

 

[notque]

played another game. Barbs were totally handled easily by a couple units early. The one cool thing was that there were these islands that were barb covered by the time I got caravels. I had to fight through them like a wall to get to the other land mass. For some reason, that was enjoyable as well.

 

[heinous_hat]

Need to get a few more games in to judge properly, but the barbarian activity is a refreshing change. It discourages you from playing "farmer's gambit" , especially on larger maps with no immediate neighbors. I've seen it influence situations when competing with an AI for land (i.e. racing settlers), which is good. If you have a map with dead spots (especially polar regions) those can become quite populated... can't say yet whether it's too much. It does make scouting less "automatic".

Sort of related to discussion in the current map thread... it would be nice if we had some ASP method for adding extra players to big maps where it's hard to judge the optimal number in advance. Most map scripts have variance in land tiles, some more than others. If barbs stay this way, that could help mitigate for people who don't like the change (while also helping to balance random maps).

 

[Erikose]

I really love the idea of unsettled regions and islands over run with barbarians. Increases the need for good scouting, civilian escorts, and more naval units for off shore expansions and coastal defense. Looking forward to seeing how the raging setting feels on a huge Sm. Continents + map. Tend to play Tradition/Progress, so should be interesting!

Also, anything that slows the AI settling into every nook and cranny on the map (or in my territory!) has my vote.

- E

 

[thecraftybee]

I'm really enjoying the new barb spawn levels. Rather than tone them down, I'd prefer to see you implement a Subdued Barbarians options, similar to Raging Barbs, so each person has a choice.

 

[Magean]

I'm really enjoying the new barb spawn levels. Rather than tone them down, I'd prefer to see you implement a Subdued Barbarians options, similar to Raging Barbs, so each person has a choice.

So do I. It is also fairer for civs which have strong early (ancient/classical) UU. Sometimes your neighbors are too far away for you to make use of your UU safely, but it can make an efficient barb-hunting squad. The Carthaginian quinquereme is insanely efficient at destroying pirates, galleys stand no chance whatever their number.

By comparison, it is typically easier to make use in real wars of later (medieval+) units.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

I agree, the current barbs are enjoyable, and adding the subdued/relaxed barbarians option would be the perfect solution for those that dislike the current situation.

 

[Takagi Hiro]

I'm really enjoying the new barb spawn levels. Rather than tone them down, I'd prefer to see you implement a Subdued Barbarians options, similar to Raging Barbs, so each person has a choice.

This. Completely this. It's good for people who are enjoying this setting, but on a personal enjoyment level, I enjoyed it as it was. It's such a push away from what people are used to, but it shouldn't feel like a forced one.

 

[Lee Saxon]

I suspect those of you who aren't seeing a huge change or are only needing a slight change to build order were playing on higher difficulties than I where barbarians were already pretty tough. On lower difficulty levels, the difference is considerable. I've gone from finding 1-3 camps in the first ten turns of a Classical start (with one Scout and one Spearman scouting) to finding triple that.

I completely agree with those who say "Relaxed Barbarians" as an option is preferable to toning the default back down. (though I kinda wonder why those of you enjoying this new challenge weren't just running "Raging Barbarians" before? is that option just *insane*?). Choice is great.

A caveat I want to mention, though. Some people have suggested that finding islands or more isolated areas later which are overrun was fun. I agree with that! My problem is that right now I'm having trouble getting *established*. So maybe what we need with a "Relaxed Barbarians" option isn't a significantly reduced spawn rate so much as a *delayed start* for barbarians? A low spawn rate at first that ramps up more over time? Is that even possible?

 

[code99]

I cant speak for the others but I always played with raging barbs before and even now, my next game will be with raging barbs. I dont mind if a "relaxed barb" option gets introduced but please dont just tone everything down, its fine as it is now.