China jumps in on US side vs. North Korea!

[Archer 007]

This is were we disagree rms. Look at the Cold War as an example, two nuclear powers will not go slap happy on one another and if they do, it will be w/ convetional forces. Everyone is so afraid of a-bombs that they cross each other less militarly. I am in reality, use history as your guide.

 

[joespaniel]

On that point, you are correct archer. MAD worked for decades, while scaring the crap out of us all.

The situation has changed now.

Imagine suicide bombers like the ones in Isreal or suicide hijackers like in the US on Sept 2001.
Now imagine them with an atomic bomb obtained from someone like Saddam Hussein or Kim Jong Il.

Goodbye New York, DC, Tel Aviv, London...

They do not fear retaliation, being dead and all.

 

[SunTzu]

I don't even want to think about a suicide bomber with a nuke. I mean come on, they have nukes small enough to fit in a briefcase, now does a briefcase really stand-out in New York City? hmmm nehhhh

 

[Fayadi]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Guess what will happen in a few years?

Iran will be close to making a nuke, and guess which country will be pressing the UN to get them to stop.

Well if you wanna ask Iran to stop developing Nukes,you have to blame somebody first,that is Israel!
They are so evil,I dont see a reason why Israel must have nukes when the rest of the middle east doesnt have any
Unless somebody disarm Israel's Nuclear Weapons,I think for Iran to have nukes is justifyable.

 

[SunTzu]

Israel evil? wow! I think they behave pretty good considering they have been in wars with nearly all arab nations in the past and they face suicide bombers all the time.

 

[Fayadi]

Originally posted by joespaniel
I dont think a link is necessary, just look at any news source.

This morning, the Chinese Foreign Ministry condemned North Korea's declaration to break the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty of 1968.

China expressed its desire to see the Korean Peninsula remain non-nuclear, and vows to work with the US to find a solution.

This is by no means a military alliance, nor a green light for war, but an important developement nonetheless.

North Korea is now completely alone, its traditional ally has come over.

I really wish to see a friendly and stable Sino-US relations.US is already our biggest trading partner and China is US 3rd largest trading partner too.I think for China and US to become friends are much more beneficial than adversary.Trade will benefits both economies while arms race will only burn holes in the pockets for the two country.

About the point China wish to see a Nuclear Free East Asia,yeah I also have the same opinion.Chinese borders with quite a number of Nuclear Power(Russia,Pakistan,India) .I think it is quite problematics if from North to South to East to see nations armed with nukes

 

[Fayadi]

Originally posted by SunTzu
Israel evil? wow! I think they behave pretty good considering they have been in wars with nearly all arab nations in the past and they face suicide bombers all the time.

Israel army shoots at innocent civilians too.I think that fact is known by many Europeans

Why does they need to build nukes when their military is the most powerful in the Middle East (and when nobody has one there)?I think it is for some evil reason

 

[SunTzu]

Well china has starving people, i think china is evil.
I have no problem with Israeli soldiers shooting stone throwing people. All they have to do is accept Israel as a rightful nation.
Little bastards

 

[Fayadi]

Originally posted by SunTzu
Well china has starving people, i think china is evil.
I have no problem with Israeli soldiers shooting stone throwing people. All they have to do is accept Israel as a rightful nation.
Little bastards

"Little bastards"- This only makes the discussion uglier
Get your facts right,

1.3 billion people has plenty of food to eat.Starvation does not exist in present China.


China is well liked by many countries,we establish good relations with Arabs,Europeans,Asians,South American,North American.If you wanna have a poll on different country as who is more evil ,I think the answer is quite obvious

 

[Jeratain]

Originally posted by jpowers
We will have invaded Iran long before that point.

With or without the help of outside nations, there will be another revolution in Iran. It will be bloody, and it will come at a great cost, but there will be change. I predict it to happen within the next 10 years.

 

[joukov]

Originally posted by Fayadi

Why does they need to build nukes when their military is the most powerful in the Middle East (and when nobody has one there)?I think it is for some evil reason

I think that Fayadi is right on that point.... I dont know why they build the bomb while their army is the most powerfull in the region. There something wrong here
Dont blame iran to want to build a bomb when one of your "ennemy" has it

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by joespaniel
On that point, you are correct archer. MAD worked for decades, while scaring the crap out of us all.

The situation has changed now.

Imagine suicide bombers like the ones in Isreal or suicide hijackers like in the US on Sept 2001.
Now imagine them with an atomic bomb obtained from someone like Saddam Hussein or Kim Jong Il.

Goodbye New York, DC, Tel Aviv, London...

They do not fear retaliation, being dead and all.

And this is the reason other countries don't get nukes. Because what if they support terrorists. I do feel that other countries should be able to have nukes, but only if they don't support terrorism. What would be the reason to stop say, Japan or Australia from have nuclear weapons?

 

[amadeus]

You didn't say that before, though. You were saying that countries like Iran have the so-called "right" to develop them. Of course, who would object to an Australian or Japanese program? They're first-world respected democracies.

 

[IceBlaZe]

Why does they need to build nukes when their military is the most powerful in the Middle East (and when nobody has one there)?I think it is for some evil reason

Yes, that evil reason is the Jewish will of conquering the world, served by the Mossad that also caused the 9/11.

It's all written well in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and those News about the evil Zionists planning evil missions all over the world, those News escape the Zionist Control news agencies, but they will never skip our true and only source!

I dont know why they build the bomb while their army is the most powerfull in the region. There something wrong here

It is a detterance measure and/or last resort aswell.
It has been said many times by all Israeli Representives that Israel will not be the first country to introduct nuclear weapons to the Middle east.
The presence of our nuclear arsenal is a good measure to prevent long wars, attrition wars, which are wars Israel can't fight for long.
Also, due to Israel's small population and dense population aswell, every severe hit can totally damage Israel and it's fighting capabilities, no matter how big our army is.
So a nuclear weapon assures that our neighboors and enemies "Think twice" before they decide to launch a surprise attack thinking it will paralyze Israel.
Moreover, any all out war Israel will fight will demand a general recruitment of almost all Israel's men workforce, so any war Israel fights must be short.
Any enemy of Israel knows now that if it pushes Israel to a condition it has nothing to lose and it's economy is crushing he will be annhilated by Israel's long-reaching nuclear capability, stored both on Submarines and Silos.

Dont blame iran to want to build a bomb when one of your "ennemy" has it

I don't think anyone blaming them for wanting it.
We are blaming those who give them the capability to actually produce "it".
Iran is an unstable theocracy, with severe hatred to the United States and Israel. And since we are on your side, a threat to the United States is a threat to Europe aswell.

China is well liked by many countries,we establish good relations with Arabs,Europeans,Asians,South American,North American.

If China is to blame for the Start of a nuclear war no one will like her anymore.
By the way, our "evilness" is well exlpoited by your regime, which preffers Israeli warfare systems when avaliable over any else.

In complete opposition to China, Israel never showed agressive intentions, nor did it ever distribute non-conventional weapons and capabilities to use them.
We have our own problems, ie the Palestinians and our Neighboors who seem not to like us, China on the other hand not once "hinted" they wish to control countries other than their own, and not once hinted they will usesagression and power against those who interfere their way.
Israel doesn't have a way, Israel only wants to live alone and quietly.
It was our noted mission since the 'Yishuv' ever started.
It is not our fault that we are attacked.
So if you think we are evil by wanting to defend ourselves, something is wrong with your perception and might hint prejudice.

Israel army shoots at innocent civilians too.I think that fact is known by many Europeans

Just don't cry over that, living in your civil rights adoring country and all.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Well, it looks as if some people left reality somewhere back down the road.
It is Israel's fault; they are evil, and Iran justified in possessing nuclear weapons to counter the insidious Zionist threat.

Why did Israel develop a nuclear capability? Because it was in a state of war with all its neighbours around, and threatened with extinction. Having a nuclear deterrent in such circumstance is good policy.
They do have the best army in the region, but were and are still very heavily outnumbered. Most importantly, their territory is exceedingly small and NARROW. They need time to mobilise their reserves, and space to give them this time.
1973 was a close run thing, particularly in the beginning in the Golan. A nuclear capability is part of the guarantee of sovereignty and survival for Israel, being surrounded by fundamentally hostile states and very heavily outnumbered. With nuclear weapons, they have the capabilty of strategic retaliation to conventional and unconventional attacks, and to attack troop concentrations. The IDF, while excellent, is finite.

Israel does not threaten Iran in any way shape or form. They are not territorial neighbours. The Israeli government does not call for the utter destruction of Iran, and driving them into the sea. Israel does not ship arms to anti-Iranian terrorists, nor sponsor terrorist attacks on Iranian civilians. Under the Shah, they were never considered a threat to Israeli security...Hmm... perhaps it is something to do with the hostile fundamentalist dictatorship.

Furthermore, a nuclear armed Iran changes the balance of power in the Gulf region, and has the capability to hold the open status of the straits of Hormuz blackmail, and to threaten attacks on European targets. Given their proven links with Hezbollah terrorists who have attacked and killed hundreds of Americans and French, leaving aside their Israeli victims, supporting a nuclear armed Iran is the height of idiocy.

To suggest Israel has a strategic capability for some "evil reason" is more than idiocy; it is yet another demonstration that some people are quite disturbed, to put it mildly.

As for military action against Iran, it is a definite possibility, and would take a shape somewhat different to that being mooted. Certainly, modern warfare is about stopping the enemy from fighting the way he wants and is suited to. The US has proven itself able to do this in the past.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Why am I reading Israel in a thread about North Korea?

If I read ANOTHER off topic post, the poster is going to get a vacation.

Fayadi, leave your idiotic racism at the door, it isn't welcome here.

YOUR country is at fault in North korea, nonsense about Israel isn't the issue.
While we are on the case, why does China need it's enormuos military?
Something sinister, no doubt.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Originally posted by archer_007
I'm on the other side of the fence. I would like so see more nations w/ nukes.

In my opinion, this view is EXTREMLY dangerous.

Why you ask? The same reason i'd like to see the draft return, politicians won't be a quick to go trigger happy over every little thing.

I disagree most strongly, there is no evidence that conscripted armies were ever used less then volunteer ones, in fact, historically it's the CONSCRIPTED ones that are used more often.

I'm so tired for hearing countries being villians who haven't done anything yet. Sure, Iran may turn out to be some evil nuke welding power, but do we know that for sure?

By track record.
Nations that have no problem supporting terror and like to have rallies where "Death to (fillin blank)" is a common and encouraged event are not countries that should control weapons that could destroy millions.

Would Iraq or any nation ever match the range or speed of production of American nukes?

Why would 19 humans smash themselves and their hostages into a building?
All it takes is one fool, each nation that gets nukes increases the chances that someone who cares not for the nuclear consequences will come into power and use them.
Your postion assumes that everyone in the world is rational and can be reasoned with, again, history shows this is FAR from the case.

The fewer members in the Nuclear club, the better.

 

[nixon]

While we are on the case, why does China need it's enormuos military?

My thoughts exactly. That's what I've been saying all the time; the Chinese are building up for their assault on Taiwan, and eventually the United States, because we'll stand in their way someday. Fayadi's ludicrous statement that "starvation doesn't exist in present day China" is so utterly absurd, that it's borderline delusion. 40 years ago, the Chinese government managed to kill 30 million people in two years, because of starvation, and because the government found it far more important spending all their available funds on nuclear weapons research than having food and supplies for the own fellow countrymen.

You're telling me they won't do that again, when the military build-up catches pace sooner or later? There is no doubt whatsoever about China's motives in the world, they want Asian superiority and will try to kick the United States completely out of Asia and then slowly start to digest the weakest links in the region. It's classic, they're so much a Soviet Union retro.

 

[tonberry]

Originally posted by nixon



My thoughts exactly. That's what I've been saying all the time; the Chinese are building up for their assault on Taiwan, and eventually the United States, because we'll stand in their way someday. Fayadi's ludicrous statement that "starvation doesn't exist in present day China" is so utterly absurd, that it's borderline delusion. 40 years ago, the Chinese government managed to kill 30 million people in two years, because of starvation, and because the government found it far more important spending all their available funds on nuclear weapons research than having food and supplies for the own fellow countrymen.

You're telling me they won't do that again, when the military build-up catches pace sooner or later? There is no doubt whatsoever about China's motives in the world, they want Asian superiority and will try to kick the United States completely out of Asia and then slowly start to digest the weakest links in the region. It's classic, they're so much a Soviet Union retro.

I think AoA was sarcastic. Maybe I'm wrong. In both case the tought of China attacking USA is as ridiculous as Israel building nukes to conquer the world.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

About China having a large military, yes.

China uses it more for prestige then any operational capability.