- Chinese 101 (Simplified characters)

[eoc]

Strange, since in the thread on traditional characters eoc couldn't see what I wrote.

I can see yours. But if you use Traditional Chinese charset(such as Big5) to write, I will see only mess-codes. I have to change my charset to read you.

 

[gangleri2001]

我有一个小问题。我学文言文的成语“何许人也”的时候，我注意到，有时候中国人不发音最后的汉字。譬如，网上有一个用户问“约翰内斯·开普勒何许人？”但是有一编文章说“刘芳菲何许人也？”.所以我问你们中国人什么时说“何许人也”？什么时候说“何许人”？

Spoiler :

I've got a little question. While studying the ancient chinese idiom “何许人也” I've noticed that Chinese people sometimes doesn't pronounce the last character. For example, on the Internet there's a user who asks "约翰内斯·开普勒何许人？" but there's also an article that says "刘芳菲何许人也？". So I ask you when do chinese people say "何许人也"? When do they say "何许人"?

 

[eoc]

在文言文(古代书面文&#31456中，"也"字放在句子最后,不代表任何意思,是语气词.在古代白话文（古代口语） 中, "也"字通常被省略. 在现代口语中, 那句话就该这 么说, "XXX是什么样的人"或者"XXX是谁?"

Spoiler :

In ancient Chinese articles, if the character "也" is put at the end of the sentence, then it doesn't mean anything, it is a tone of assistant word. In ancient oral Chinese, "也" is often omitted. In current time, you should say, "XXX是什么样的人"或者"XXX是谁?". So, if you are writting an ancient article, you should use "也", whatever otherwise.

 

[eoc]

一个名句，“醉翁之意不在酒，在乎山水之间也”——欧阳修

A famous example sentence, “醉翁之意不在酒，在乎山水之间也”—— by OuYang Xiu. Here "也" is an assistant word.

 

[mrt144]

Bu Hao

 

[gangleri2001]

@eoc: What codification did you use in your first message? Because even changing the codification of the browser I still can't see what you wrote. BTW, "也" doesn't mean "是" in ancient Chinese? And what's the use of this "也" in ancient chinese idioms that have survived in modern chinese (such as 何许人&#20063?

BTW, eoc run a test with different codifications please, so I can read what you wrote in chinese.

 

[eoc]

@eoc: What codification did you use in your first message? Because even changing the codification of the browser I still can't see what you wrote. BTW, "Ò²" doesn't mean "ÊÇ" in ancient Chinese? And what's the use of this "Ò²" in ancient chinese idioms that have survived in modern chinese (such as ºÎÐíÈËÒ²)?

I have answered your question in my first reply. And I have changed my condification, can you read it now?
In case that you can't read it, I reply you it directly in English.
"Ò²" doesn't mean "ÊÇ", it means "also/too". The sentence you've read is not integrated ancient Chinese grammer. It should be like this: "ÊÇ...Ò²".
Such as, Lady GaGaÊǺÎÐíÈËÒ²?
"ÊÇ"can be omitted. "Ò²" , here, it is a tone assistant word which cooperate with "ÊÇ". It desn't mean anything and also can be omitted.
By the way, Chinese sentence grammer is not so strict as English. Pay more attention to single characters, trying to understanding characters' meanings, trying to grasp the key characters in the sentence. Even the ancient Chinese grammer is much more strict than modern Chinese, it still dedicated in single characters.
I maybe confused you. Let's look at the example: Lady GaGaÊǺÎÐíÈËÒ²?
Which is the key characters in that sentence?
The answer is "ºÎÐíÈË". This is so different from English. You can always find that lots of sentences don't use Verbs as a predicate at all in Chinese writings.
If you are a newbie at learning ancient Chinese. I strongly recommend you start with some ancient oral Chinese book. It is becasue they are more easy to understand and helpful at grasping key characters. <<The legend of 3 kingdoms>>(<<Èý¹úÑÝÒå>>) is my most favorite.

 

[gangleri2001]

Now I can see your first message. What codification did you use? I think I should edit the OP so this doesn't happen again. Besides, now I can't see what you wrote (though I suppose it's hexurenye), so please, use the same codification above from now on (you're the only chinese user that I can't see).

BTW, in English is "Romance of the 3 kingdoms", and it's my favourite too

 

[eoc]

I use Chinese Big5 charset. I don't use Chinese gb2312 because it can only use Simple Chinese.

If you can't read it, I think you can use IE Tab if you're browsing with firefox.

 

[Jeff1787]

The codification presented in the OP is only predicated upon the theory that the earlier Chinese dogma has no empirical meaning.

 

[eoc]

BTW, in English is "Romance of the 3 kingdoms", and it's my favourite too

It is not accurate to translate "ÑÝÒå" into "Romance" or "legend".
I think "ÑÝÒå" = "chronicle"+"romance"+"legend".
But, I can't find an single proper English word to explain "ÑÝÒå"

 

[plarq]

Unicode (UTF-8) is the way, down with GB,GBK and Big5!

 

[oagersnap]

Hi, I'm reviving this thread to ask if anyone can recommend a book for learning beginners' Chinese? I'm mostly thinking of the written language, although I wouldn't mind learning some spoken Mandarin as well if there's a CD included with the book, for example. I'm not expecting to become an expert or anything, it's mostly just to try it out and see how it goes, and hopefully being able to read some very basic Chinese.

Oh, and sorry if someone already asked the question before. I also realise that this thread is for conversations in Chinese, but I found it the best place to ask my question nonetheless.

 

[TheDanish]

&#25105;&#32456;&#20110;&#33021;&#20889;&#27721;&#23383;&#20102;! &#20197;&#21069;&#25105;&#20197;&#20026; Windows 7 &#27809;&#26377;&#25340;&#38899;&#30340;&#21150;&#27861;&#65292;&#21487;&#26159;&#25105;&#21018;&#25165;&#25214;&#21040;&#19968;&#20010;&#31572;&#26696;&#12290;

Spoiler :

I can finally write Chinese characters! Before I thought Windows 7 had no pinyin option, but I just found a solution.

 

[gangleri2001]

&#36825;&#23601;&#26159;&#22909;&#28040;&#24687;&#65281;
&#32456;&#20110;&#26377;&#19968;&#20010;&#22806;&#22269;&#20154;&#20250;&#20889;&#19968;&#20010;&#27721;&#35821;&#30340;&#21477;&#23376;&#65281;

Spoiler :

Taht's good news!
Finally there's a foreigner that can write a Chinese sentence!

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Hi, I'm reviving this thread to ask if anyone can recommend a book for learning beginners' Chinese? I'm mostly thinking of the written language, although I wouldn't mind learning some spoken Mandarin as well if there's a CD included with the book, for example. I'm not expecting to become an expert or anything, it's mostly just to try it out and see how it goes, and hopefully being able to read some very basic Chinese.

Oh, and sorry if someone already asked the question before. I also realise that this thread is for conversations in Chinese, but I found it the best place to ask my question nonetheless.

You're from Germany ? In Cologne (and I guess in most university classes) we're using this textbook and it's actually quite good. The texts can get a bit bizarre at times, but the grammar is well expalined and becomes more complex step by step without becoming overwhelming.
http://www.amazon.de/Chinesisch-f%C3%BCr-Deutsche-Hochchinesisch-Kurzzeichen/dp/3875483847/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273519649&sr=8-1

There's also a CD with the spoken lesson texts, but it's not included and frankly offers too little for it's price. I have to warn you though: Mandarin is not a language you can learn by yourself, you'll need a teacher if you want to be able to understand chinese people and speak in a way that they can understand you.

 

[gangleri2001]

@GoodSarmatian: &#25105;&#21548;&#36807;chinaboard.de&#20026;&#35793;&#32773;&#26159;&#19968;&#20010;&#38750;&#24120;&#22909;&#30340;&#35789;&#20856;&#12290;&#19981;&#24184;&#30340;&#26159;&#65292;&#25105;&#19981;&#26159;&#19968;&#20010;&#20197;&#24503;&#35821;&#20026;&#27597;&#35328;&#30340;&#20154;&#65292;&#25152;&#20197;&#25105;&#19981;&#21487;&#20197;&#29992;&#36825;&#20010;&#35789;&#20856;&#12290;&#19981;&#36807;&#25105;&#24819;&#30693;&#36947;&#35875;&#35328;&#26159;&#30495;&#30340;&#36824;&#26159;&#20551;&#30340;&#12290;

Spoiler :

@GoodSarmatian: I've heard that chinaboard.de is a very good dictionary for translators. Unfortunately, I'm not a native speaker of German, so I cannot use this dictionary. But I want to know if the rumors are true or false.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

&#25105;&#19981;&#30693;&#36947;&#65292;&#25105;&#22914;&#26524;&#35201;&#20013;&#25991;&#35789;&#20856;&#25105;&#19968;&#33324;&#29992;http://www.mdbg.net&#65292; &#33258;&#24049;&#32763;&#35793;&#22478;&#24503;&#35821;&#25110;&#32773;&#33521;&#35821;&#12290;

Spoiler :

I don't know. If I need a dictionary I usually use http://www.mdbg.net and translate it myself to english or german.

 

[gangleri2001]

MDBG&#26159;&#19968;&#20010;&#22909;&#30340;&#35789;&#20856;&#65292;&#20294;&#26159;nciku&#27604;&#36739;&#22909;&#12290;nciku&#26377;&#19968;&#20010;&#24456;&#22823;&#30340;&#31038;&#21306;&#20063;&#26377;&#29983;&#35789;&#34920;&#21644;&#32451;&#20064;&#12290;&#23545;&#23398;&#27721;&#35821;&#30340;&#22806;&#22269;&#20154;&#38750;&#24120;&#26377;&#29992;&#65281;

&#39034;&#20415;&#35828;&#19968;&#19979;&#65292;&#25105;&#20170;&#22825;&#21548;&#36807;&#35828;&#31908;&#35821;&#24471;&#20154;&#21483;&#23500;&#20154;&#30340;&#23401;&#23376;“&#20108;&#19990;&#31062;”&#65288;&#25105;&#35273;&#24471;&#36319;&#31206;&#22987;&#30343;&#30340;&#21518;&#20219;&#26377;&#20160;&#20040;&#20851;&#31995;&#65289;&#12290;&#35828;&#26222;&#36890;&#35805;&#30340;&#20154;&#29992;&#19981;&#29992;&#36825;&#20010;&#35789;&#65311;

Spoiler :

MDBG is a good dictionary, but nciku is better. Nciku has a big community and vocabulary lists and exercises. It's very useful for those learning chinese!

BTW, today I've heard that those who spoke cantonese call the sons of rich people "&#20108;&#19990;&#31062;" (I think it has something to do with the successor of Qin Shi Huangdi). Do those who speak mandarin use it too?

 

[gangleri2001]

&#20170;&#22825;&#25105;&#21548;&#36807;&#20849;&#20135;&#20826;&#24819;&#20462;&#25913;&#35745;&#21010;&#29983;&#32946;&#25919;&#31574;&#12290;&#25105;&#20063;&#21548;&#36807;&#22312;&#20013;&#22269;&#26377;&#19968;&#20010;&#21517;&#20026;Yicheng&#65288;&#25105;&#19981;&#30693;&#36947;&#23427;&#30340;&#27721;&#23376;&#26159;&#20160;&#20040;&#65289;&#30340;&#22478;&#24066;&#35777;&#26126;&#35745;&#21010;&#29983;&#32946;&#25919;&#31574;&#27809;&#26377;&#29992;&#12290;&#36825;&#20010;&#35770;&#36848;&#24590;&#20040;&#21457;&#23637;&#22312;&#20013;&#22269;&#65311;

Spoiler :

Today I've heard that the communist party wants to modify the one-child policy. I've also heard that in China there's a city call Yicheng (I don't know its characters) that proves that the one-child policy is not useful. How does this discussion progress in China?