Christianity and Islam: ANY similarities?

[GenMarshall]

You are quoting a law that was given to the Jewish people to observe in about 4000 BC.

The world was very different back then.

And the men who had long hair were considered 'Nazarenes' like Samson, who lost his strength because Delilah cut his hair, remember that story? So, you are incorrect about men not having 'long hair'.

Jesus is considered the consummate Nazarene.

Christians do not follow the Jewish laws.

They are for a particular people in a particular time period, who were in the Old Covenant with Jehovah.

We are now in the New Covenant. We do not follow a set of laws.

I guess many skeptics and atheists are too quick to jump the gun at the Bible when they see a passage in the Bible in regards to old Hebrew laws .

 

[GrandAdmiral]

I voted a ton of similarities, but could we even have this conversation in most Islamic nations? I think if many radical Christians had their way our society would be alot more like Iran's, in that we would have less freedom for the sake of security and religious morals. The difference is that Islamic radicals have way too much influence over Islam and there isn't enough non-religious people in those nations to create a balance.

 

[Katheryn]

You claim (not that I believe) that you have "studied" Islam extensively after 9-11 and you have found no tenet to agree with - personally, I think you have not studied it at all, instead read articles and not taken them critically. You cannot accept that there are plentiful similarities between Islam and Christianity, not because you have read otherwise, but because you DON'T like it. Therefore you will vehemently argue otherwise, not with facts, but with your own opinions.

Not so. I have backed up everything I have said with Christian scripture or with wikipedia or with Islamic or Hindu websites. That is not my opinion. That is me, quoting their opinion.

And again, I have spoken directly with Muslims.

You can go here and read the discussions if you want:

www.godlikeproductions.com

Then do an advanced search on 'Islamic Guy' and you will see our conversations there. There are probably 4 Muslims who frequent the site. We have talked for about a year.

Islamic Guy is saving his money to go back to Iraq and fight jihad against the Americans. I have begged him not to do so. You will see that there too. He lived in Dearborn Michigan but he said he was moving to Canada, he had a great deal of racism in the U.S. One day, his wife and he were sent home from a restaurant because she was dressed 'traditionally'. They wouldn't seat them. That is when he decided to move to Canada.

You can have your own opinions, but not your own facts. I believe it is a fact that Islam and Christianity share much in morals, stories, rules and so on.

I have... let say... about 10 bibles in the house in which I life. The most recent one is from 2002, while the "oldest" is a an exact copy of a bible from the 1624 AD(iirc) written in old Finnish language - its a really heavy, dusty old book. Other bigger bibles are from the circa 1700 and 1800, and one is from the second ww. IIRC, i'm too lazy to check since I just came from the gym...

Yes, I can imagine it is dusty.

If you open it to the book of Colossians, you will see that Christians are 'dead' to the law (rules), we do not follow them. Instead, "just shall live by faith".

The 'stories' you speak of that are similar are JEWISH stories that existed over 1000 years in Hebrew, which Mohammed took and changed to make it sound like HIS people were really chosen for the Promised Land.

And thirdly, the 'morals' that you speak of, that Islam and Christianity share are these perhaps? Love your enemies? Do good to those who persecute you? Turn the other cheek? The just shall live by faith? Forgive or you will not be forgiven by God? These morals are not in the Koran.

 

[Smidlee]

I voted a ton of similarities, but could we even have this conversation in most Islamic nations? I think if many radical Christians had their way our society would be alot more like Iran's, in that we would have less freedom for the sake of security and religious morals. The difference is that Islamic radicals have way too much influence over Islam and there isn't enough non-religious people in those nations to create a balance.

What? Those radical christians (some fought in wars in the past) who have children in the military fighting for our nation and what it's stand especially in freedom?

 

[Katheryn]

I voted a ton of similarities, but could we even have this conversation in most Islamic nations? I think if many radical Christians had their way our society would be alot more like Iran's, in that we would have less freedom for the sake of security and religious morals. The difference is that Islamic radicals have way too much influence over Islam and there isn't enough non-religious people in those nations to create a balance.

This is maybe the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard on this thread.

It is the Christians (Baptists) who demanded 'separation of church and state' be in the Constitution.

You can google John Leland to discover what happened.

Here is an excerpt from one of the leaders of the Moral Majority, the protege of Jerry Falwell:

Our Baptist predecessors were among the most outspoken and ardent proponents of the Bill of Rights, which, under the First Amendment, guarantees religious freedom. You see, it was the unholy marriage between state governments and Christian denominations that produced widespread religious persecution of Baptists by Anglicans and others in the early colonies. It was the Baptist minister John Leland (who himself had been subjected to religious and state persecution) who convinced James Madison, the architect of the U.S. Constitution, to include the article keeping government from being entangled with religious institutions.

That is what is going on in the Evangelical Church. Rebellion against politics. And for this exact reason, the Republicans will lose the Congress.

You can read it here:

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2006/cbarchive_20060906.html

 

[Trajan12]

I voted a ton of similarities, but could we even have this conversation in most Islamic nations? I think if many radical Christians had their way our society would be alot more like Iran's, in that we would have less freedom for the sake of security and religious morals. The difference is that Islamic radicals have way too much influence over Islam and there isn't enough non-religious people in those nations to create a balance.

Find 1 radical Christian and I could find 100,000,000 moderates. If radical Christianity does exist, it has absolutely no influence. Non-religious create a balance? You assume all religious want to christianize the world and mighty atheism is all that saves you. Why do you think gay marriage wasnt outlawed? Because religious dont care to force their beliefs on others. How could you say something so ridiculous?

 

[Katheryn]

A little more from one of the leaders of today's Evangelicals, splitting with his mentor, Jerry Falwell. This is what is REALLY going on in the American Church today.

The next statement my friend Jerry Falwell made that leaves me incredulous is when he said, "And we will not accept a candidate who is soft on the war on terror, whether here at home (the Patriot Act, domestic surveillance, etc.) or in Iraq, or wherever."

Do I understand Jerry correctly? Is he saying he supports the misnamed Patriot Act, a law that all but eviscerates the Fourth Amendment and does serious injury to several others, a law that was first proposed by Bill Clinton and Al Gore? Is he saying he supports domestic surveillance, which many fear does more to create an American police state than fight terrorists? Does he mean he supports warrantless searches and seizures and warrantless eavesdropping?

I had always believed that Christian conservatives were among our country's most ardent defenders of liberty and constitutional government. All that I knew and understood from my schooling at Thomas Road Baptist Church and the Thomas Road Bible Institute, plus all of my involvement and effort in Jerry's Moral Majority, convinced me that if we Christian conservatives believed anything, we believed in freedom and constitutional government. Am I now to understand that we are supposed to support a Big Brother philosophy to government and must willingly surrender constitutionally protected liberties?

As to the war in Iraq, do we Christians really desire that our young men and women continue to die in another non-declared, no-win war? Is it wrong to wonder whether this never-ending "war on terror" really serves the cause of national security or rather the commercial interests of globalists? Do Evangelicals really have a litmus test whereby any future president must be determined to continue and perhaps expand constant interventionist policies, nation-building, and preemptive invasions of foreign countries? Must we be equally determined to turn the United States into an Orwellian nightmare until life in America looks like one giant airport terminal? None of this reflects historic Christian conservatism as I ever understood it!

Revolt from the younger generation of Christians.

 

[Katheryn]

Find 1 radical Christian and I could find 100,000,000 moderates. If radical Christianity does exist, it has absolutely no influence. Non-religious create a balance? You assume all religious want to christianize the world and mighty atheism is all that saves you. Why do you think gay marriage wasnt outlawed? Because religious dont care to force their beliefs on others. How could you say something so ridiculous?

I for one, a very 'radical' Christian to most people, don't give a rat's ass what you do in your bed.

My brother-in-law is gay and I've never once blinked at him in disapproval. Not in 20 years.

 

[Katheryn]

I guess many skeptics and atheists are too quick to jump the gun at the Bible when they see a passage in the Bible in regards to old Hebrew laws .

AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(That is a scream if you can't translate it!)




They don't really believe that do they? That we follow these laws? I find it amazing that they would!

 

[Trajan12]

I for one, a very 'radical' Christian to most people, don't give a rat's ass what you do in your bed.

My brother-in-law is gay and I've never once blinked at him in disapproval. Not in 20 years.

I have a cousin who is gay. I dont feel any differently than I would if I were an atheist.

 

[Mott1]

If Katheryn is what you people define as a Christian 'radical', then I would rather live in a city of radical Christians than amongst a community of moderate Muslims.

 

[Katheryn]

The basic question of gay rights is the same as the question of affirmative action for African Americans.

Do you give the minority a benefit over the majority?

Is there a basic reparation to be made because of prior discrimination?

Gays have all the basic rights that any other minority have.

And most people just don't want to know what people do in their own beds, in their own bedrooms, in their own homes.

And they really don't want it encouraged to their children because they would like to have grandchildren. In our family, that is the bottom line. My kids have no cousins on that side of the family, it was always stale at Christmas, and my in-laws have been doing their best to show their son (my brother in law) that they love him even though he's gay. It's been an endless parade of favoritism all my husband's life. It is just chaos on a family. All you can do is ignore it.

But my husband is very anti-gay, way before he was a Christian, and his Christian beliefs have really made him ACCEPT his brother whereas before, he was his enemy. Being a Christian has forced my husband to be kind, which is something he would never do before.

 

[Katheryn]

If Katheryn is what you people define as a Christian 'radical', then I would rather live in a city of radical Christians than amongst a community of moderate Muslims.

That is very sweet! Thank you so much.

I'm feeling pretty beat up here, I appreciate it.

 

[Trajan12]

Judging by what ive been reading If anything I feel sorry for these guys!

 

[GenMarshall]

But my husband is very anti-gay, way before he was a Christian, and his Christian beliefs have really made him ACCEPT his brother whereas before, he was his enemy. Being a Christian has forced my husband to be kind, which is something he would never do before.

I still dont know how that would happen to me since I have became anti-gay after I returned to Christianity from agnosticism.

 

[Trajan12]

I still dont know how that would happen to me since I have became anti-gay after I returned to Christianity from agnosticism.

I think its more about acceptance.

 

[Smidlee]

A little more from one of the leaders of today's Evangelicals, splitting with his mentor, Jerry Falwell.

Good post about Falwell. Most see Jerry as a good man and have respect for him but lately noticed he's getting too heavy into politics. Most christians don't mind some mentioning of politics behind the pulpit as long it's not too often.

 

[Trajan12]

AAhhhhhh, that moment right after a debate when everyone can calm down and let go. Dont you just love that? Like the calm after the storm.

 

[Katheryn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katheryn
This is something you usually do, "you don't have a relativistic worldview, therefor you are wrong." And you need to rethink that. I realized I believed in "absolute truth" while studying Aristotle in college, after being raised in an atheist home. Becoming a Christian was a done deal after that.

Wow.
For me it was just the opposite.
Even though my father has never been believer but I tried when I was young but it was a shoe that never fit me. And reading aristotle was the check point for me when I understood into what christian philosophy was based into.

That is wierd. We seem to be close in opinion, but far, far away, eh? Methinks I've said that before!

I only asked you to have relativist worldview when regarding the question whether Islam and Christianity have similarities. Somehow in your mind you have only one absolute truth and nobody else that hasn't accepted Jesus as you do cannot ever be considered to have anything common with christianity.

It's not just their concept of "Who is God?", but also "How does one approach God?" and "How does one please God?" and "What are the consequences of that?" "Does it make sense on a daily basis?" "Do I have choices? How do I make them if I do?" These are religious questions. Maybe you are more referring to 'cultural' similarties?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katheryn
I really don't know who 'those christians' are, but the Bible is very clear that once a person converts to Christianity, once they ascribe to the basic 'Jesus died for your sins' faith system, they are considered 'brethren'. The one and only rule that Jesus gave His people was to 'LOVE YOUR BROTHER'. So, again, you are quite mistaken if you think side issues in Christianity supercede that. Churches have separated over things like how do you baptise, dunk in water or sprinkle with water? If you want to be baptised and dunked, then go to the former church, it is really NO BIG DEAL!

It is big deal if we are comparing WHOLE christianity to WHOLE islam.

If we are comparing Jesus to Islam only then of course there are hardly any similarities at all. That is your problem since you seem to think that christianity ain't anything but about Jesus. The faith is of course based into those concepts given by Him but the religion such as christianity has a history and numerous other traditions that don't have anything to do with Jesus. Example from the old testament. You have yourself given this defence when I have asked why christians accept use of violence when Jesus doesn't.

I and a few other Christians have also said that it is "All about Jesus" so I'm not sure what else you think it is about. What is that? I have no clue. And your statement 'the faith is of course based into those concepts given by Him' I'm not sure I agree with. It wasn't really concepts given by Jesus, but by the prophets - like in the Isaiah and Jeremiah quotes I posted earlier and John the Baptist. In statements like, "The One is coming... who is the Lamb of God... who is the Messiah to come..." In Judaism, the "lamb" is the sacrificial animal during Passover, you remember.

But when you say there are traditions have have nothing to do with Jesus, that baffles me. I know of none. What are you thinking of, I wonder? Can you expound on this? Again, are you sure you are not talking about cultural similarities?

And in regards to the idea of violence, are you thinking of war? of police? of security in one's home? There are different ways of violence. There is a book in the Bible that describes the character of a man if he wants to be a 'deacon' or a leader in the church. First, he has to have only one wife. No polygamy in the Christian church, you know! And another of the characteristics is that the person should be taking care of his family. In fact it says that anyone who doesn't provide for his own family is a pretty bad fellow. And one of the things he should provide is safety. And I am pretty sure that this is the reasoning behind joining the army. Protecting the family, the community.

You are talking about someone's invidual faith while I'm talking about the whole system of religion.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Christianity is very individualistic, and at the same time is community oriented. There are wide differences but that is because of the individualistic nature of it. Individuals who want to form a particular way of living a Christian life can meet with others of like mind and still have widely varying beliefs.

But, as long as the core, the foundation is held, there is latitude. I might think someone is wrong, but that doesn't mean he is not a brother in the Lord. So I don't think you can throw all Christianity into a bowl and dissect it as a 'whole system of religion'. The tie that binds, the seed that must grow in good soil is the gospel of Jesus Christ, again, John 3:16:

Spoiler :

14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

And here who is Jesus? :

Spoiler :

21"Lord," Martha said to Jesus, "if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask."

23Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."

24Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

27"Yes, Lord," she told him, "I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world."

And here, the same message, who is Jesus Christ?:

Spoiler :

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"

14They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"

16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katheryn
It would mean that they have NOTHING right. There is not ONE tenet of Islam that I can agree with, and yes I have studied it thoroughly since 9-11.

Probably some muslim think exactly the same way about Jesus, that christians didn't got anything right and they cannot agree about anything said about Jesus.
But there can be still similarities between religions even though believers don't see it that way.

There can be similarites even if the believers don't agree? Hmm.... I thought the believers would be the ones who know the belief best. Those who actually believe it... put it into practice! And yes, they do deny Jesus, 5 times a day, remember? Why do they need to do it so much? I think it's creepy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katheryn
The things that Islam have in common with JUDAISM are things that Christianity has accepted from Judaism. Those things have been taken from Judaism and then replaced with Islam. Therefore there is NOTHING that Islam and Christianity have in common. You can say, vaguely, that Oh, they both believe in God... but those concepts of WHO GOD IS, HOW HE ACTS, WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO HIM, WHAT HE EXPECTS FROM HIS PEOPLE, WHAT HE HAS DONE, and WHAT HE PLANS TO DO IN THE FUTURE couldn't possible be more different.

Problem here is that you're reading bible directly while I also try to interpret the history of these religions, and looking back under those religions there have been similar habits.
Nowadays the differences are easier to spot since western culture has changed which even you have admitted and therefore christianity has mostly given up many things and mostly only one thing has remained, the love for Jesus Christ, even though I could still claim there are other parts are present as well through proxy of western culture itself.

Are you assuming that I don't know history? That is how I found this website, from looking for historical maps, Selucid Empire, to be precise.

And, you can't really analyze a religion without looking at the belief system. That is in the Bible. Otherwise, you will find extraordinary groups that do not follow the general religious precepts.

And I am not sure which "habits" you have in mind. Can you expound on that? I can't think of any. Again, I think you are talking about cultural similarities not RELIGIOUS similarities. Seeing that they all lived in the Middle East around the same time, I suppose that is right, but that is not similarities between the RELIGIONS.

Because as you can see, the questions that religion poses: Who is God, what is my relationship to Him; How can I know God; How can I maintain a relationship with God; What do I do to please God; Will God help me in my troubles; in all these questions, there is NO similarity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katheryn
My grudge against Islam is their murdering Christians all over the world, simply for the fact that they are Christians.
...
These cultures do not integrate. Islam demands submission from infidels. It is that simple.

And here we go again. Grudge and another rant.
Of course this all gives you quite good reasons to look for those differences rather than similarities, right?

As you can see from my other answers, I see nothing wrong with being different. Different is good. Different is fine. Why do you need similarities? The question is, can we respect people who are different? Why not?

If we are to understand one another, do we not need to see each other in a true light? Don't we need to know what we require of one another? In order to make a decision or a judgment, don't we need all the relevant information? To truly get along, not just playact, don't we need to understand each other?

Pretending there are similarities when there are none is just simply another way of condenscending to people we think are inferior. It's saying 'You're like me.. I can get along with you.' instead of 'Wow, you are really different, let's give one another plenty of space to follow our dreams.'

You know, this is EXACTLY what Christians and Jews do today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katheryn
I was talking about the general concept of 'humanism' which accepts the idea of 'relativism', which basically means there is no such thing as absolute truth. Obviously, Pilate was a humanist, who thought discussing 'truth' was futile, like many atheists in the world today - my brother included, who has a degree in Philosophy from Claremont College. We get into this quite a bit, it is a familiar discussion for me.


Well, absolute truth is bit hard to find in this case since we are talking about two huge religions. I find it's as much of error to say "yes" they don't have any differences and "no" they don't have any similarities. So there' s no absolute truth in that case, it entirely depends from viewpoint and since you concentrate into Jesus, I can see why you cannot find anything similar from Islam while I try to concentrate into other issues and find similarities or otherwise we cannot compared any religions together.

But you won't find a Christian alive that doesn't agree that Jesus died for his sins. The absolute truth I am talking about is this, just like the bumper-sticker says:

Know Jesus know Peace
No Jesus No peace

That also sounds like 'concentrate(ing) on Jesus' too, doesn't it? It sounds like this too:

John 17

1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Eternal life = Knowing Jesus Christ.


Here is how Paul said it:

1 Corinthians 2

When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

That one is surely the best!

I, Katheryn Michelle, am resolved to know nothing... except Jesus Christ, and him crucified... TERRIFIC!

7But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things.

I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death...

Also:

I consider EVERYTHING ELSE rubbish... that I might gain the righteousness that come from God and is by faith! I want to know Christ.

Colossians

...the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

The Mystery of the Ages: CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY.

It is all about Christ. There is nothing else. Everything else is RUBBISH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katheryn
Again, I have taken a look at the different belief systems, and I believe in absolute truth, yes. That is a plumbline for me, yes. I don't think I will ever fall into the confusing and dark world of relativism, no. Too much hopelessness there, like in existentialism. No thank you.

You probably understand that for me this sounds all the time that your talk about "absolute truth" and how Islam is submissive is all about trying to convince people how Islam is evil and therefore christianity hasn't anything to do with Islam.

I don't think it 'evil', I think the concept of attempting 'submission' in order to be pleasing to God to be 'futile', frustrating, impossible, stifling, scarey.

In the magazine that shows the pictures of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes' new baby, Sura, there is an article written by a journalist who went to Egypt to research the suicide bombers in the Sinai - where they were, what they were doing... and it is just the most depressing story I've ever read. The brother of one of the suicide bombers tells of how his life has changed because of what his brother did. The author knew him before his brother did the suicide bombing. He was a regular guy. He loses his job at a posh hotel because of his brother. The author describes how the guy says that he knows a guy who won the lottery to America, (was one of the 10,000 Visas given out in the lottery) that guy is doing very well now, has a good job, a new family. He says how wonderful it would be to go to America - be able to pursue his dreams, get married.

After a while, he sighs and says, 'Well, I probably won't win that, will I?" Then, he says, "maybe I will go to Iraq and blow up some Americans, then. My life will have meaning if I can kill some Americans." I was flabbergasted.

You just wonder, what kind of value system brings people to be so hopeless? To idolize a life in America, then turn around 180 and say that your life would have 'meaning' if you could kill Americans. Doesn't he realize that he is talking about his friend, who just won the lottery? I think there is something terribly wrong. This was in Vanity Fair, last month I believe. I think the roots of this hopelessness needs to be discovered, the Vanity Fair journalist thinks it is because of the 'Inshallah' or God Willing attitude, which means that God will do whatever He wants, and it makes no difference what I do, so.... that is fatalism, you know. It is acid to the soul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katheryn
Yes, it is, and I'm not really sure how to explain this to an atheist, but to any Christian, the belief in Jesus Christ really is all there is. Sorry that you can't understand that. You can't have read the New Testament because if you had at least done that, you would at least realize how many times this is said, over and over again.

And does Jesus example accept adultery?

Absolutely not. Is this how you love your wife? I don't think so. How hurtful to be a victim of adultery! I've never been, but I would be devastated. Men are to 'love their wives as Christ loved the Church and gave his life for her...'

But 'works' or doing things that please God, are only a fruit that is produced because you are attached to the vine.

This is how Jesus said it:

5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing...

...If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katheryn
The problem occurs in this: AFTER this great event has happened, there is still a life to be lived. So then, How shall we live? There is not very much to go on in the Bible. Yes, you can look at the lives of people in the Old Testament and see parallels, glean principles, but bottom line: THESE STORIES SHOW THE FACT THAT GOD IS MERCIFUL and all forgiving. These are stories that have to do with men failing to come up to the mark. King David - had it all, but one day, out of boredom, he committed adultery, then covered it up with murder. He was very sorry, and yet he still married Bathsheb and their son, Solomon, became King instead of his older brothers. What kind of example to follow is this? Not so hot! But it does show God's overwhelming mercy and forgiveness to those who stray. You will find it very difficult to find a good example of a human being in the Old Testament, good luck! They all fall. But the good news is... God's mercy endures forever.

Christianity is about forgiveness and love : GOD'S FOR US, not ours for Him.

And Islam turns it around 180 and says, it is about OUR SUBMISSION to God, our good works for God.

This is irreconcilable.

You have to tell this those christians that say those that do against the bible go to hell.

[/QUOTE]

I've never heard a Christian say that. Do you have a source? I don't believe it. I think you misunderstood, or someone told you someone said it. I know of no one who can "follow what the Bible says". The Bible says it is impossible. In the early church, this is what Peter said about it:

Acts 15:

"Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

No one has been able to wear that burden. Rules are not to be put upon the necks of followers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katheryn
they deny Jesus Christ has come into the world.
That is disturbing to a Christian.



And if I do the same?

Five times a day? As a ritual? As an act of 'Submission'? As a way to please God? Yes, I would think it very wierd, creepy even.

I could say even more horrible things about Jesus and this somehow disturbs you?

Again, if it is simply your opinion, you are entitled to that, of course. But it is creepy when we see a huge religion of 1 billion people who believes it to be a path to heaven, to trash someone else' religion. To trash their Savior, the one who gets their adoration. This is how they get to heaven - by obeying these 5 Pillars. Two of these Pillars, at least - maybe more, are directly denying the one and only important tenet in Christianity. It is wierd. "God has no son, God has no partners... He does not beget, nor is he begotten"...

1 billion people ritualistically saying this 5 times a day...

 

[Trajan12]

And the storm is back...