Christianity MUST be seperated into Protestant and Catholics

[homan1983]

There are 2 main religious battles that went on through history:

1) Islam vs Christianity

2) Catholics vs Protestants

Even now there are border conflics [Northen Ireland is in conflict between the protestants and catholics]. Its pretty obvious why christianity should be split into those 2 major factions.

Does anyone else agree?

 

[homersheineken]

Tha'ts silly.
YOu could split Islam into 2 basics sects.
Buddhism could be split into many sects.
Hinduism could be split into many sects. How many different religions do we really need?

If it really bothers you, just wait till the game comes out and write a mod....

 

[Hyena]

As a staunch Catholic, I have to agree with you. Catholicism and any of the Protestant faiths are VERY different. In fact, I find that due to our emphasis on rituals(sacraments) and our reverence for saints, as well as the fact that there is a piece of a saint's body in every altar, and our belief in eating Jesus' flesh and drinking his blood every Sunday, we actually have more in common with early European pagan religions than we do with Protestantism. The only thing I would add though is that if the Civ designers had to split Christianity then they would also have to split Islam into Sunni/Shi'ite/Sufi, and Bhuddism into Mahayana/Theravada/Tibetan, as well as splitting all the other religions, up to the point where the entire game would be about religion instead of civilisation. Generic religions will have to work. Anyone who needs a change can just mod them in later. Ciao.

 

[Civrules]

As far as I know there are no little "Sects" in Civ IV. Just the seven main religions that are given.

 

[homan1983]

The only thing I would add though is that if the Civ designers had to split Christianity then they would also have to split Islam into Sunni/Shi'ite/Sufi, and Bhuddism into Mahayana/Theravada/Tibetan, as well as splitting all the other religions, up to the point where the entire game would be about religion instead of civilisation. Generic religions will have to work. Anyone who needs a change can just mod them in later. Ciao.

Thats not the case.
whilst I agree that every religion has its own sub-factions, I think the Christian faith is a case where the 2 main factions were big enough and faught enough to justify an exception.

Even Christianity has many MANY factions but there is a reason I chose it to be split into those 2.
There has historically always been a lot of tension and fighting between the Vatican and Church of England.

I am not a christian, in fact I was originally born in Iran, this neutrality gives it even more credibility I think!

 

[Aegis]

If the sect places it's faith in Jesus, then it can be lumped together with all the other sects and labled "Christianity" can it not?

 

[apatheist]

There are 2 main religious battles that went on through history:

Um, there have been a lot more than that. Hindus vs. Muslims in the last 600+ years in India. Hindus vs. Buddhists from before Christ. Roman paganism vs. Judaism (ok, that was mainly political). Regardless, the above is not an accurate statement.

whilst I agree that every religion has its own sub-factions, I think the Christian faith is a case where the 2 main factions were big enough and faught enough to justify an exception.

2 main factions? You're forgetting the Orthodox church. The Nestorian Christians were also quite numerous until they got wiped out by the Muslims.

There has historically always been a lot of tension and fighting between the Vatican and Church of England.

Protestantism is bigger than Anglicanism. Much bigger.

 

[eddie_verdde]

. Catholicism and any of the Protestant faiths are VERY different.

???????

AS different AS christianism is from islamism?? because if it is, the game shouldn't have 7 religions but at least 20 or so...I don't think that they should consider the different branches within the same religious group.

For instance islamism also could be divided into 2 major groups: the sunites and the xiites; and I'm sure the same happens with hinduism and budhism.

protestantism and catholicism are merely different conceptions of the SAME religion,each one of them having different institutional "rules" (eg: catholic priests aren't allowed to marry whereas protestant priests do) but in essence both branches share the same beliefs...they even follow the same book!!!why separate them?

 

[Che Guava]

There are 2 main religious battles that went on through history:

1) Islam vs Christianity

2) Catholics vs Protestants

Just 2? I know christianity gets lots of coverage in western history books, but that seems like a bit of an over simplification. I know that Sunnis and Shi'ites still aren't getting along in more than a few place in the middle east, and even the divisions within Judaisim can be pretty stark. For that matter, what about orthodox christians? I think (in my uninformed opinion) that there might be even less in common with them than with catholocism and protestanism....

In my opinion, I think that there should be 7 main religions, as there is now, with several prophets/founders within each. That way, within your christian nation, you could have papists, calvinists, and lutherans tha don't always get along....

 

[Sickman]

Reasons for it have been given already.

 

[Grohan]

No, because then every other religion also must be seperated into sects.

400th post!

 

[Superkrest]

fraxis was being simple about religion on purpose...to try to avoid any religios furver that may be produced. Why complicate it. i really dont think that splitting religions would help anything..American baptists will turn and say..How dare they forget us and so on and so on and so on...it doesnt need to be done..and frankly shouldnt..there never gonna make everybody happy so why try...appease the masses..and this argument in no way apeases the masses

 

[mitsho]

not because of historical reasons, because these are - especially regarding religions - extremly subjective. This is just a swamp!

No, because of the European Culture - Rest of the World thing. The Western World is overrepresented, and there's nothing we can do against it, because our modern world was heavily marked by the West. (just look in the news...)
But that's why we don't need to emphasize the West even more with two Christian religions.

But however, I would support a system of "religions-splittung-up", let the Holy city stay, but the money wouldn't go anymore to it, just some new features. But I'll probably need to wait for an expansion to get this 'sect'-feature. And btw. this way, probably every religion of the world could be included into the system, because we can probably find 3 different 'ways'. Judaism would be a bit tricky, but there you could go a bit ahistorically, kabbalism for example. (Is this correct, caus all I know of Kabbalism is that Madonna is an adherer and it has something mystical with it... ).

m

 

[Loppan Torkel]

I'd like a more complex religious system, but as it is, I can't see that splitting Christianity would make civ a better game. Catholism without a pope is just a generic religion named Catholism. I want crusades and Jihads too. All these things were nicely represented in Medieval: Total War without any outcry from religious groups.

It's probably more about making the game easy to balance than avoiding controversy.

 

[apatheist]

No, because of the European Culture - Rest of the World thing. The Western World is overrepresented, and there's nothing we can do against it, because our modern world was heavily marked by the West. (just look in the news...)
But that's why we don't need to emphasize the West even more with two Christian religions.

To be fair, there's only one Western religion in the game. And that religion wasn't originally Western. Buddhism and Hinduism are both Indian, Islam and Judaism were both from the Middle East (as was Christianity), and Taoism and Confucianism are both Chinese.

 

[dc82]

catholicism and protestantism have a very interesting relationship and makes it very difficult to figure out - esp. in how to represent it in the game. firstly though, there was already schisms in christianity long before protestantism - with the orthodoxy and nestorians in the east. catholicism and protestantism, however, made large historical influences in the western world, including western europe and the americas, which i guess is where most of us r from, thus our slightly biased views on it.

either way, for the non-christian, it's easy to to see catholicism and protestantism under the same umbrella - i mean, they seem to share similiar histories, have the same God. it's only under a more westernized Christianized lens that u can see large diff. between the two among other seemingly "Christian" religions including mormonism, jehovah's witness, etc. in the americas (both us and north/south america) and europe since the 16th century, catholicism and protestantism had often been pitted against one another, whether it be through actual wars, politics, etc. so that, again, from a more western view, it's understandable to see why many wud see the two as two separate religions.

heh to be honest, i'd focus more on removing confucianism and replacing it with another religion (not only is confucianism not a religion but a philosophy, but it easily coexists with buddhism and daoism in asian countries - perhaps if we had animalism or some sort of native american, mesoamerican, or african religion represented instead)...

 

[MSTK]

If you got to name religions, this problem wouldn't even be existant.

 

[CTM]

Hey, why not split the Muslims into Shiites and Sunni while we're at it!

Simply put:

As far as we know, Firaxis went light on religion, and just included seven main religions. There was to be no sects or anything else to complicate it. It's a new concept they added to the game, after all.

You want them, mod the game. That's all that really needs to be said here.

 

[Cuivienen]

Thats not the case.
whilst I agree that every religion has its own sub-factions, I think the Christian faith is a case where the 2 main factions were big enough and faught enough to justify an exception.

Even Christianity has many MANY factions but there is a reason I chose it to be split into those 2.
There has historically always been a lot of tension and fighting between the Vatican and Church of England.

I am not a christian, in fact I was originally born in Iran, this neutrality gives it even more credibility I think!

The Orthodox Christians were, for a long time, the rivals and enemies of the Catholic Christians. For that matter, if Christianity were to be split at all, why not split it into two branches with greatly different views on the religion - Orthodoxy and Catholicism? The only real difference Protestants bring to the table is that they don't believe in the Church. They have no real different interpretation of the religion as a whole.

 

[mitsho]

To be fair, there's only one Western religion in the game. And that religion wasn't originally Western. Buddhism and Hinduism are both Indian, Islam and Judaism were both from the Middle East (as was Christianity), and Taoism and Confucianism are both Chinese.

Agreed, but I was talking about the game in General, and not only about the feature of religion.

mfG m