Chronicles of Mankind

[<Nexus>]

also reduce damage, -60% dmg just from one arrow shooting is insane xD

Well, since it's actually a new thing in the mod it will need balancing. So I am happy about your feedback because it's not only me feeling it's too strong.

i know its historical accurate but.. please add option to turning it off

You will have to bag about that with @Inthegrave but I don't think it will happen. Actually, neither him, nor me re interested in making it optional. We want it to be balanced and enjoyable though.

It need to be done something with clan civic bonus to exp, me and all my neighbours turn it on and 10-15 lvl of longbowman is normal unit - and with all these bonuses common unit is universal - to - all others. Like Caveman2Cosmos level of gameplay

What speed are you playing on? It's only 0.01Xp/turn on normal. Can you upload a save file, please?

moreover, I would like to remind you that the "drill" promotion for unit is responsible for "shooting a bow before the main attack" and what currently exists in this mod is the duplication of the promotion tree and the addition of two "drill" trees

Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.

for me its no-playable at this moment (both game play and map generators), it look i need download older version. can you give link to COM 1.1.1 ?

Sorry, I no longer have it online but I plan to get out a patch soon. Maybe next week or the following.
The map generators haven't been changed - except the ones already mentioned in the change log.

 

[Inthegrave]

i know its historical accurate but.. please add option to turning it off

This won't happen, it's a part of vanilla. However there is a way to disable volley if you are up to it. Open up Civ4UnitInfos.xml and remove <iVolleyRange> from all units that have it.
Once you do that Volleys won't appear in the game and the ai won't be able to use them either.

Alternatively if you want to lower the damage of Volleys go into the same file and change iVolleyEfficiency to a smaller value. You also can experiment with iCombat to change unit strength.
In vanilla, ships tend to have really low strength compared to most land units which is why they die to volley easily.

 

[<Nexus>]

In vanilla, ships tend to have really low strength compared to most land units which is why they die to volley easily.

Than we need to fix that somehow.

 

[PKSRoman]

Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.

it behave like unit would be have second, additional slot for drill

i mean, drill promotion act like unit shoot arrows before main attack (pic related)

now, with "volley" first you shoot arrow (have a chance to strike) and later unit with drill promotion do it again, in combat 1 unit vs 1 unit.
now it sounds more clear? it behave like you use promotion "drill" one after one first from distance and later in close combat

What speed are you playing on? It's only 0.01Xp/turn on normal. Can you upload a save file, please?

normal speed of game
whoa, its not a fault of clans, units just have insane amount of exp, these horse archers was just upgraded from chariots and nothing more.
maybe it double exp of unit when you upgrade it?
anyway, this version is still not playable


catch save file, i can send you earlier if you want, for now i stop playing in civ
https://www.sendspace.com/file/aac0zh

This won't happen, it's a part of vanilla. However there is a way to disable volley if you are up to it. Open up Civ4UnitInfos.xml and remove <iVolleyRange> from all units that have it.
Once you do that Volleys won't appear in the game and the ai won't be able to use them either.

thx for tip, maybe i use this when mod will be playable

 

[Inthegrave]

Than we need to fix that somehow.

Well it's pretty simple, like I mentioned in my post you just need to increase naval unit strength.
I booted up COM and started in the medieval era, the strongest horse unit you can build right off the bat (The Heavy Calvary) has a strength of 8 and the strongest naval unit (The Trireme) has a strength of 6
making the Heavy Calvary way stronger than the Trireme! Now don't worry Zeta you didn't do anything wrong, I think the reason naval units tend to be pretty weak on average is because in vanilla Civ 4
Naval units were not meant to engage in combat with land units. Volleys/Ranged Attacks didn't exist in vanilla Civ 4 so Naval units couldn't fight land units at all.
So they were balanced in strength around other naval units and not other land units. But since Ranged attacks were introduced in AND that gave a way to engage with naval units
and unfortunately naval units were never balanced around land combat so they get destroyed easily by volleys because the land unit that is using them has far more strength.

What I would suggest Zeta is to make naval units far stronger in strength then most horse and humanoid units, but in the modern era if you want, you can have naval units be closer in power to other humanoid units because of explosives and all of that.
But really it's up to you. But you will have to go through and edit all naval units, will be a bit tedious because there are so many of them but it has to be done if you want to fix the game balance.

Experiment with World Builder and have units fight each other to find the perfect balance that suits you. Use neutral terrain and don't use barbarians as your opponents because of damage modifiers against them.

 

[<Nexus>]

it behave like unit would be have second, additional slot for drill

i mean, drill promotion act like unit shoot arrows before main attack (pic related)

now, with "volley" first you shoot arrow (have a chance to strike) and later unit with drill promotion do it again, in combat 1 unit vs 1 unit.
now it sounds more clear? it behave like you use promotion "drill" one after one first from distance and later in close combat

Okay, now I understand. But I think Drill is a little different because it also works when unit is defending.

normal speed of game
whoa, its not a fault of clans, units just have insane amount of exp, these horse archers was just upgraded from chariots and nothing more.
maybe it double exp of unit when you upgrade it?

I don't know what's causing it but I really doubt it is Clans. Clans is giving 1Xp/100turns if the unit is in the city.
Unless... the XML tag is not working as it should. Can it be buggy? @Inthegrave ?
Otherwise I'm open for suggestions about Clans how to change it.

What I would suggest Zeta is to make naval units far stronger in strength then most horse and humanoid units, but in the modern era if you want, you can have naval units be closer in power to other humanoid units because of explosives and all of that.
But really it's up to you. But you will have to go through and edit all naval units, will be a bit tedious because there are so many of them but it has to be done if you want to fix the game balance.

I was afraid that being the only way. Was hoping that volley can be tinkered but... Oh well

 

[Inthegrave]

Unless... the XML tag is not working as it should. Can it be buggy? @Inthegrave ?

Hmm not sure, I will have to look into it.

I was afraid that being the only way. Was hoping that volley can be tinkered but... Oh well

Well adjusting individual units is the best way to achieve balance and appease your users, simply changing the volley system as a whole wouldn't help you. Also on top of raising the naval strength you also might need to lower
iVolleyEfficiency on some units with volleys if you feel they kill other land units too quick but you will still need to raise naval strength to prevent land vs naval engagements from being imbalanced.

 

[nionios]

Where is the (orange-red?) button located at the bottom right of the empire cities screen ( accessed via F1) where you can liberate/grant independence for conquered cities?

 

[PKSRoman]

i dont have an option to raze / spare city when i conquer one. could you add this again?

 

[<Nexus>]

Where is the (orange-red?) button located at the bottom right of the empire cities screen ( accessed via F1) where you can liberate/grant independence for conquered cities?

https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Colony_(Civ4)

i dont have an option to raze / spare city when i conquer one. could you add this again?

Removed years ago back in AND2. Now you raze cities by pillaging them while they still revolt.

 

[Inthegrave]

Removed years ago back in AND2. Now you raze cities by pillaging them while they still revolt.

Yeah I was going to say I thought it was removed a long time ago but I wasn't sure if there was a menu option I was missing to turn it back on.
I just know I haven't seen that popup in a very long time.

 

[<Nexus>]

Yeah I was going to say I thought it was removed a long time ago but I wasn't sure if there was a menu option I was missing to turn it back on.
I just know I haven't seen that popup in a very long time.

There's no option to turn it back. It was a dll modcomp merged into the mod. But IIRC there's a pedia entry about it.
EDIT:
Yes, there is it:

 

[<Nexus>]

FAQ section updated.

 

[rtt4a]

Uhm.. guys, have you removed possibility to play without ranged attack? If so why..? Theres lots of players who dont wanna play with that.
Please dont cut options, it was the original idea of Affores on AND that players can choose.

 

[<Nexus>]

Well adjusting individual units is the best way to achieve balance and appease your users, simply changing the volley system as a whole wouldn't help you. Also on top of raising the naval strength you also might need to lower
iVolleyEfficiency on some units with volleys if you feel they kill other land units too quick but you will still need to raise naval strength to prevent land vs naval engagements from being imbalanced.

Well, after examining the units a bit I think it's better and easier to reduce archery unit's strength.
I also want to add volley attack to ships: War Galley and its upgrades, Man-O-War and its upgrades.

 

[<Nexus>]

Uhm.. guys, have you removed possibility to play without ranged attack? If so why..? Theres lots of players who dont wanna play with that.
Please dont cut options, it was the original idea of Affores on AND that players can choose.

It's replaced with a new and better mechanism. It is still a work in progress and needs to be improved.
Making something optional is a lot of extra work. Balancing the game for ON/OFF with an option is also a lot of extra work if possible at all.

 

[<Nexus>]

So here is an idea about Clans:

• remove Xp per turn in cities
• +50% Maintenance Cost from Distance to Palace
• -50% Maintenance Cost from Number of Cities
• +2 in Cities
• +20% from Population

In a Clans citizens are more loyal to their Clan and Chief than their Empire and King, so the further and bigger your cities are the more problem they mean.
What do you think?

 

[Inthegrave]

Please dont cut options, it was the original idea of Affores on AND that players can choose.

Zeta basically said it perfectly already, but it takes more work to add or maintain something optional. And in my experience most players and modders want ranged attacks as part of the core gameplay so when the ranged attack system
was overhauled it was decided to remove the optional side of it to ease work loads. Zeta now has far more control then he had before to tune how the ranged system works.

But it's not impossible to remove the system If you want to remove it then you can do it yourself by going into Civ4UnitInfos and removing iVolleyRange from every unit in that file with no programs other than a basic text editor.

Well, after examining the units a bit I think it's better and easier to reduce archery unit's strength.

That works but see there is still a problem. See volleys are influenced by the users strength, and strength as you may know determines not only a units damage output but also their max health.
So you will still have a problem with naval units dying quicker than land units to volley (Less Strength means less health for the naval unit). So you must increase Naval strength across the board to avoid that.
In my example with your Heavy Calvary and Trireme, the Heavy Calvary will be able to tank more volley hits then a Trireme can. It doesn't make sense for a Trireme to be able to die from arrows faster then Calvary will.

So it's necessary to increase all naval strength as well as reduce iVolleyEfficiency to nerf volley for some units.

I also want to add volley attack to ships: War Galley and its upgrades, Man-O-War and its upgrades.

Yeah I also wanted to do the same thing for my naval units. The Volley system should work fine with naval units. In fact it also works for units that are only defensive units like the Machine Gun unit.

 

[<Nexus>]

Zeta basically said it perfectly already, but it takes more work to add or maintain something optional. And in my experience most players and modders want ranged attacks as part of the core gameplay so when the ranged attack system
was overhauled it was decided to remove the optional side of it to ease work loads. Zeta now has far more control then he had before to tune how the ranged system works.

...and I admit that the present version of it is truly bad. No wonder you guys want to turn it off. But I'm working on the fix and balance. Please give it a new try once that's done.

It doesn't make sense for a Trireme to be able to die from arrows faster then Calvary will.

Spoiler :D :

vs

 

[PKSRoman]

In a Clans citizens are more loyal to their Clan and Chief than their Empire and King, so the further and bigger your cities are the more problem they mean.
What do you think?

wise and smart.Clans was choosen in early era of humanity for nations who was small and far from each other. I`m for.

Remove exp bonus from "standing army" and "warrior caste" too.