Cities Defenses wich damage adjacent units are doing way too much damage

[arthas125]

as the title says, in my most recent game i came across an issue in wich cities with defensive buildings wich damage adjacent units such as the fortified outpost/bombard tower etc, are doing absurd damage to all my units, and by absurd i mean it, my units go from 100% to 10% HP as soon as i end my turn close to the city, they can also be killed by these defenses if they are too low on HP, my units are unable to heal properly and as a result are always at 40-50% HP and unable to properly set up an attack, and i have every heal promotion that's avaiable in my stack in one way or another, hell my units are so strongh that they all have march and it barely seems to make a difference at all if any, if it wasn't for the fact, as you'll see in my savegame, that my units are so high level that it doesn't matter if they are at half HP or not, they can still kill the units defending the city without any issue, but this is only due to the fact that i used the debug menu to give myself like 20 cities at the start of the game so it basically snowballed from there

so if i was playing without the aid of the debug menu my units would be way too weakened by the absurd damage the cities are inflicting upon them that i wouldn't be able to do anything and the AI would take advantage and swarm my weakened units and since they are not high level enough to be properly promoted so they can at least stand a chance at defending themselves, i would be unable to attack cities and defend my stack at the same time

if i renember correctly the absurd damage spikes started appearing when the AI got watch towers or whatever the upgrade to the fortified outpost is, because at the early game damage from these defenses was negligible at best, but now they absolutely destroy every unit i have, and the AI doesn't even have to do anything as im forced to get close to cities in order to capture them but can't because my units will be at ridiculous low HP and unable to do anything

i don't know if there's something im missing on my end but this seems wayyyy to overtuned if it is supposed to work like this

i'll attach both my save and my user settings, i leaved 3 stacks of units adjacent to 3 separated cities in different parts of the map, and on each the damage dealt by these defenses is the same, if i stop healing for whatever reason for a single turn, my units just die to the defenses, the damage being dealt by them is that high

im playing on the SVN version 11176

 

[Thunderbrd]

as the tittle says, in my most recent game i came across an issue in wich cities with defensive buildings wich damage adjacent units such as the fortified outpost/bombard tower etc, are doing absurd damage to all my units, and by absurd i mean it, my units go from 100% to 10% HP as soon as i end my turn close to the city, they can also be killed by these defenses if they are too low on HP, my units are unable to heal properly and as a result are always at 40-50% HP and unable to properly set up an attack, and i have every heal promotion that's avaiable in my stack in one way or another, hell my units are so strongh that they all have march and it barely seems to make a difference at all if any, if it wasn't for the fact, as you'll see in my savegame, that my units are so high level that it doesn't matter if they are at half HP or not, they can still kill the units defending the city without any issue, but this is only due to the fact that i used the debug menu to give myself like 20 cities at the start of the game so it basically snowballed from there

so if i was playing without the aid of the debug menu my units would be way too weakened by the absurd damage the cities are inflicting upon them that i wouldn't be able to do anything and the AI would take advantage and swarm my weakened units and since they are not high level enough to be properly promoted so they can at least stand a chance at defending themselves, i would be unable to attack cities and defend my stack at the same time

if i renember correctly the absurd damage spikes started appearing when the AI got watch towers or whatever the upgrade to the fortified outpost is, because at the early game damage from these defenses was negligible at best, but now they absolutely destroy every unit i have, and the AI doesn't even have to do anything as im forced to get close to cities in order to capture them but can't because my units will be at ridiculous low HP and unable to do anything

i don't know if there's something im missing on my end but this seems wayyyy to overtuned if it is supposed to work like this

i'll attach both my save and my user settings, i leaved 3 stacks of units adjacent to 3 separated cities in different parts of the map, and on each the damage dealt by these defenses is the same, if i stop healing for whatever reason for a single turn, my units just die to the defenses, the damage being dealt by them is that high

im playing on the SVN version 11176

Can anyone at least load this up and ensure that the math is somehow incorrect? In the later game, this sounds like a legit scenario and if there's ENOUGH of them, even midgame might add up correctly to this sort of thing, demanding you don't camp out next to the city. I'm headed off to bed but before I think there's a bug to investigate I just want to make sure that it doesn't check out as normal somehow.

 

[JosEPh_II]

By late Classical into early Med era in my test games you don't want to be next to a city you are attacking. If you can find a forested hill next to that city and have lots of healers you can sit close to bombard the defenses. But a flat open area around a city that is grassland, plains, or desert (tiaga/tundra) is a slow (and sometimes fast) death march for your army. No Jericho's in this mod for sure!

 

[arthas125]

By late Classical into early Med era in my test games you don't want to be next to a city you are attacking. If you can find a forested hill next to that city and have lots of healers you can sit close to bombard the defenses. But a flat open area around a city that is grassland, plains, or desert (tiaga/tundra) is a slow (and sometimes fast) death march for your army. No Jericho's in this mod for sure!

the healers are funny enough the one that take the blunt of the damage first, often i see them go from 100 to less than 1 or 2% HP in the first turn they spend adyacent to a city with these defenses, in the savefile i posted there's 20 healers + 15 engineers in each stack and they are fully promoted yet that's not enough to keep most of my units above 50% life at all times (i also use the buildups promotions but they barely help while also making my units more vulnerable to an offensive attack, also used a hero promoted with the % healing promos later on, barely made a difference at all) wich as i said before, in this specific savefile isn't an issue because my units are so strongh, but if you were playing normally you wouldn't be able to properly attack a city with a bunch of units at 40-50% HP, the enemy still retains all the defender advantages it always has for being in a city but now also completely negates your offensive capabilitys aswell, not to mention a stack that's that low on HP wouldn't be able to defend properly against any attack either

and again, if none of my units had march, they wouldn't even be able to attack, as they wouldn't qualify for healing after attacking and the turn after the city defenses would take away what little HP the unit had remaining after battle, its just way too easy for the defenders to literally not do anything and completely negate your attacks on their citys, its very hard to take a city in a single turn so 99% of the times you are gonna take damage from these defenses, its almost inevitable

 

[Joij21]

By late Classical into early Med era in my test games you don't want to be next to a city you are attacking. If you can find a forested hill next to that city and have lots of healers you can sit close to bombard the defenses. But a flat open area around a city that is grassland, plains, or desert (tiaga/tundra) is a slow (and sometimes fast) death march for your army. No Jericho's in this mod for sure!

I thought being on a forested hill doesn't reduce the damage you get from defense buildings. Does it? Or is it just easier because you get the larger defense bonus in case they counterattack? If its the latter then maybe the system needs to be nerfed, because even if you have a good defensive tile adjacent to a city its not going to reduce the actual raw damage that is taken. Now if arthas125 is correct then this feature seems more like a way to prevent snowballing in the mid-game until you get airpower.

Not to mention that most of the defense buildings seem to be stupid things like pit-traps and minefields. I could understand if they represented city garrisons but they don't, instead your troops magically fall into pits despite the fact they are stationary when next to a city. IMHO the current defense buildings should only damage units when they actually move to assault the city. And if your really stingy as to keeping them the way they are, then can we at least have engineer/sapper units who can at least have a chance to sabotage and destroy defensive buildings?

 

[arthas125]

I thought being on a forested hill doesn't reduce the damage you get from defense buildings. Does it? Or is it just easier because you get the larger defense bonus in case they counterattack?

definetly the latter, my units are promoted to the point where they have a lot of extra strenght even while standing in the open field yet these defensive buildings take away more than 50% of their HP the second they spend a turn adyacent to a city, its ridiculous, strenght of the unit seems irrelevant for the damage calculation, i got riflemen and they are getting destroyed by these defenses even tho the defenses themselves are classical/medieval buildings

Not to mention that most of the defense buildings seem to be stupid things like pit-traps and minefields. I could understand if they represented city garrisons but they don't, instead your troops magically fall into pits despite the fact they are stationary when next to a city

what pisses me off is the fact that my stack is getting disabled and killed while the enemy is not wasting anything or being hindered in one way or another to do so, in fact all they have to do is wait for their defenses to lower my units HP and then send in their troops to do the cleaning, any unit will do, my units are wayyy to low on HP to defend themselves properly anyways, i don't understand why sieging works backwards in here, cities should have a harder time defending themselves from enemy armys by desing, cities were cut off from supplies and starved until surrender irl, that's how most sieges worked, so parking your army adyacent to the city makes the most sence, why am i being punished for doing so is bafling to me

IMHO the current defense buildings should only damage units when they actually move to assault the city. And if your really stingy as to keeping them the way they are, then can we at least have engineer/sapper units who can at least have a chance to sabotage and destroy defensive buildings?

if it worked like that you would have a hard time deciding whenever or not you want to attack with your units or not as the combat success chance wouldn't be accurate, mods such as FFH incorporate this sort of mechanic in the form of defensive strikes but you can make your units inmune to them so it doesn't really make that much of a difference on either side, also Spies can sabotage any building, including these, but its pointless since the AI will rebuild it next turn anyways, and since its costly and logistically annoying to do then its not worth it

its way too easy to defend cities currently in the mod, not only do these buildings rekt everything (at least in my current game) but i haven't come across a single citie that doesn't have below 300% defense, wich means that im gonna be spending at least a few turns taking those defenses down in order to be able to attack, wich again means i need to be in an adyacent tile in order to bombard said defenses wich means i'll inevitably take damage from the defenses themselves and as such be unable to defend myself properly or continue the offensive since all my units will be too hurt to do anything worthwhile

wich imo is the reason why these buildings would work better if they either, did high damage but only worked each several turns, therefore giving my units a chance to heal, position themselves properly, and actually start wearing down the city defenses, or better yet, if these buildings were only at 100% efficiency if the cities defenses were also at 100% strenght, what i mean with this is simple, lets say my city has reached the a maximum 200% defense and can't currently get any more, now all these kind of buildings wich damage enemy units would work at 100% efficiency, meaning that if they deal 20% damage each turn that's the damage they'll do unless the city's defenses are lowered, now if the enemy cuts the defense in half they would only deal 10% damage, and if the enemy completely takes away cities defenses with constant bombarbment wich is what you always do anyways, these buildings would either stop working or work at very low efficiency such as <5% etc, this would make it so these buildings fill their purpose the first turn and actually open a way for the defenders to attack adjacent units but doesn't completely negate said units and make defending cities super easy, instead the defenders would have to attack before the enemy properly sets up the siege or sally out and break it while the defenses still working, and it also makes sence that a city with 0 defense also has their defensive buildings disabled

i understand the reason of these buildings to exists but currently, at least in my game, they are way too overtuned and as a result do way too much damage and make trying to take enemy cities frustrating while also making defense of said cities incredible easy, like you don't even have to do anything just sit there and wait for your defenses to kill every adyacent units, if this is their intended behavior then they definetly need to be adjusted because they are just too good at doing their job

 

[Thunderbrd]

One of the goals here is to make cities very hard to take. That said, I usually don't build armies that can't take a city in a single round so never have this problem. The attackers can almost always move 2 spaces and if not would still only be spending one round next to the city and I don't take so few bombardment units that they won't wipe out any defenses in one round.

We can put it on the development queue to consider these buildings further eventually. The real question I have is if the math is somehow off and you're actually reporting a bug or if its just an imbalance you're saying you feel exists.

 

[arthas125]

One of the goals here is to make cities very hard to take. That said, I usually don't build armies that can't take a city in a single round so never have this problem. The attackers can almost always move 2 spaces and if not would still only be spending one round next to the city and I don't take so few bombardment units that they won't wipe out any defenses in one round.

We can put it on the development queue to consider these buildings further eventually. The real question I have is if the math is somehow off and you're actually reporting a bug or if its just an imbalance you're saying you feel exists.

i attached my savefile and my settings just so you can see for yourself if the damage these buildings are inflicting upon my stacks is normal or im experiencing some sort of bug, imo having most of my units be near death after expending a single turn near a city is not OK no matter how you put it, that's why i feel the damage is way to overtuned, because these buildings alone are stopping me from doing anything

its not the defenders nor their units or technologically advantages (hell im 2 eras above all other civs in the save file i posted) , its not the city's defenses, its these buildings alone that are stopping my whole armys, that's why i find it silly and nonsensical that these guys would get completely stomped easily if it wasn't for these things alone, and no amount of healing promotions seems to mitigate their damage either, so its not fair for the attacker either, its just defender advantage multiplied x10 just cause, you can make taking cities harder without completely eliminating my ability to properly conduct offensive manuevers on enemy soil, or actually trying to have fun and do some conquering, as i said before, if the AI wasn't as dumb as a brick taking cities would be impossible since they would always take advantage of my low HP units and effortlessly destroy my stack in an instant

if this is working as "intended" then please point me to whatever file i need to change in order to nerf these buildings myself because they alone are ruining my whole game experience and needless to say i do not like that

 

[arthas125]

this is absolutely hilarious, somehow this problem just GOT WORSE, there's definetly something wrong with the damage these defenses are doing because my units are now dying instantly if they end their turn right next to a city

check the stack that's right next to Fukushima on japanese territory in this save, right after i end this turn, i will lose like 50% of my army to the city defenses, the units are just gone, this includes my hero aswell, went throught several turns, same story, the defenses now just instantly kill units in my stack at random, needless to say i can't keep playing like this anymore

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm not really investing the time to look at saves at the moment but I may later this week.

EDIT: Sigh... I HAD to see what you were complaining about and if there was a bug. See below.

 

[Thunderbrd]

as the title says, in my most recent game i came across an issue in wich cities with defensive buildings wich damage adjacent units such as the fortified outpost/bombard tower etc, are doing absurd damage to all my units, and by absurd i mean it, my units go from 100% to 10% HP as soon as i end my turn close to the city, they can also be killed by these defenses if they are too low on HP, my units are unable to heal properly and as a result are always at 40-50% HP and unable to properly set up an attack, and i have every heal promotion that's avaiable in my stack in one way or another, hell my units are so strongh that they all have march and it barely seems to make a difference at all if any, if it wasn't for the fact, as you'll see in my savegame, that my units are so high level that it doesn't matter if they are at half HP or not, they can still kill the units defending the city without any issue, but this is only due to the fact that i used the debug menu to give myself like 20 cities at the start of the game so it basically snowballed from there

so if i was playing without the aid of the debug menu my units would be way too weakened by the absurd damage the cities are inflicting upon them that i wouldn't be able to do anything and the AI would take advantage and swarm my weakened units and since they are not high level enough to be properly promoted so they can at least stand a chance at defending themselves, i would be unable to attack cities and defend my stack at the same time

if i renember correctly the absurd damage spikes started appearing when the AI got watch towers or whatever the upgrade to the fortified outpost is, because at the early game damage from these defenses was negligible at best, but now they absolutely destroy every unit i have, and the AI doesn't even have to do anything as im forced to get close to cities in order to capture them but can't because my units will be at ridiculous low HP and unable to do anything

i don't know if there's something im missing on my end but this seems wayyyy to overtuned if it is supposed to work like this

i'll attach both my save and my user settings, i leaved 3 stacks of units adjacent to 3 separated cities in different parts of the map, and on each the damage dealt by these defenses is the same, if i stop healing for whatever reason for a single turn, my units just die to the defenses, the damage being dealt by them is that high

im playing on the SVN version 11176

Ok, I'm not sure I'm following you here.

Looking at your save, it sounds like I'm supposed to see that all of your attack units are just devastated by having been parked next to a city they are attacking.

One thing about these buildings is they don't hit EVERY unit in the stack every round. You can see that not ALL units are damaged here. Some of the bombards are. Some of the riflemen are. But not ALL. You aren't supposed to be able to successfully camp out next to a city for multiple rounds. The ones that are hurt should be pulled back if you cannot take the city this round, and the ones that can attack should be chosen to do so. If a unit is at full strength, I don't think you can really ask for more power to attack with. You ARE using enough attackers to make a bid for this, or any other city, I think. Hard to say for sure without playing it out. And maybe this is just one example.

All this is part of how singular stacks of doom are forced to be scattered some. BTW, your attack across a river here is not an advised path of approach but maybe they have bridges that minimize the difficulty added from that. EDIT: The bombards ARE getting -25% to attack for crossing a river.

TBH, I'm finding the complaint here a little baffling. These units aren't THAT hurt. Sure they would be if they stayed hanging out there round after round, but that's not the intended way to attack a city here.


EDIT: So the bug that won't allow the bombards to keep attacking if the lead defender is too damaged is still a bit of a nuissance here.

Playing into the battle a bit, I don't think you'll have any problem taking this city at all. You may just have to set up a healing camp a space back then take those that are at some 25% health back to that camp to build them back up. You don't have nearly as many units as your opponent so even though they are quite weak in comparison to your forces, they can hold for a long time here because you just don't have the firepower to take so many out quickly. Thus, playing the long game of sending some back to heal and keeping those stronger ones at the front is what will be needed. Might take a while but I really think you could get this done with few to no casualties. They do have a very impressive amount of defenders. Haven't played recently enough to see numbers like these in the game... wow.

One thing I'm also seeing here is if you hover over the stack, the damage numbers seem to indicate that all units of a type listed are hurt when they aren't.

 

[Thunderbrd]

this is absolutely hilarious, somehow this problem just GOT WORSE, there's definetly something wrong with the damage these defenses are doing because my units are now dying instantly if they end their turn right next to a city

check the stack that's right next to Fukushima on japanese territory in this save, right after i end this turn, i will lose like 50% of my army to the city defenses, the units are just gone, this includes my hero aswell, went throught several turns, same story, the defenses now just instantly kill units in my stack at random, needless to say i can't keep playing like this anymore

To comment on this, well YEAH! If you keep the stack there and don't pull back the injured, they'll keep randomly taking damage and that damage CAN destroy them. Pull back the injured so they aren't in range and pull back the healers so they can heal the injured in peace. Keep some stack defender promoted units back at base camp and send in what's healed to the front to keep taking shots at the city with what's strong. If the units get too hurt just for approaching, they gotta get pulled back, but not all units will be and you'll be able to keep clipping off more every round from the number of defenders. I couldn't attack without a nearly 100% chance of success against any defender they put forward so this isn't exactly a fair fight and is completely slanted towards you if you play it right.

If it's THIS annoying and you really want to cut through it all, try using a spy to send the city into a round of revolt when your army approaches...

 

[Joij21]

Hmm, judging by this picture it does not seem like the buildings are that OP. Maybe I'll play the save and see if I can take the city. I think your ultimately failing to split the stack. You should only have the siege units be adjacent for the bombardment stage before bringing up your assault units for the assault stage.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I played a round and a half and there's too much going on for me to want to keep going but I can see already that with patience, this will be no difficult task to take the city at all. When you've divided the stack into a healing stack and a front, make sure to set the healers to the field hospital buildup - that will speed things up for the healing side of things. Again, make sure to keep a couple of solid defenders at the rear stack in case they get aggressive with you. It's just going to take a while to get through the three hundred or so units defending that city and in the meantime, you'll have to play lava lamp with your attackers and maybe focus on sending some more reinforcements to help speed up the process. One of the cities you are attacking can fall the same round as the first save opens. The other one is a little challenging simply because you're going in on a shoestring budget of troops and they have a fair counterattack coming, but then so do you so there's some tradeoffs there.

Being prepared to setup a rear field hospital tile would help if you plan that in your approach.

 

[arthas125]

Ok, I'm not sure I'm following you here.

did you check the doctors and other units aswell? in my save they are nuked and if they don't heal themselves they die next turn, i played enough of this save to see that there's something skechy going on with these buildings at least in my games

im not asking you to play turns upon turns of it to see what im refering to, in fact that's why i posted my second save in my previous post, in wich this problem just got worse

in that save im outright losing units to these defenses, they are dying if they spend a turn adyacent to a city because the defenses are doing so much damage that they are killing the units, just press the end turn button and check the my stack of units at Fukushima, as soon as i end that turn they'll lose a ton of units to those defenses, that definetly has to be a bug of some sort, just like the bug im experiencing with my siege units not being able to attack the enemy directly after the first attack, that's why i upgraded them with ranged bombardment promotions, so i can at least use them, also the reason i camped my units at the other side of the river is so the enemy gets the penalty for crossing said river if they try to attack my units

If it's THIS annoying and you really want to cut through it all, try using a spy to send the city into a round of revolt when your army approaches...

espionage revolts aren't working for me so i stopped trying to use them in this save

 

[arthas125]

just in case it wasn't clear enough that these buildings are doing way more damage than what they are supposed to be doing...

this is my stack spending one turn adyacent to Fukushima wich has a WATCH TOWER wich is supposed to do only 15% damage to units in my stack if they spend the turn adyacent to this city

167 units, everysingle one is fully healed, but i can't bombard the enemy city because my bombards are out of moves, this stack has 20 surgeons and 15 engineers plus the hero wich has all healing promotions and my strongest units have self heal aswell, all units have march (except those wich can't get it, such as doctors/engineers) so they always qualify for healing no matter what they do

next turn this happends

127 units... wich means that 40 UNITS just died to the WATCHTOWER in this city wich apparently only does 15% damage but its clearly NOT doing that much damage but more than 100% because all these units just died for spending a turn adyacent to this city, what happends next turn?

now im left with 95 units.. wich means 32 died, again, in a single turn, you can now see all the units i have remaining in the picture without scrolling down in game, so in two turns of being adyacent to this city, i LOST 72 UNITS, wich is almost HALF of my army, i didn't have any chance to react, i didn't have any chance to prevent their deaths by "Pulling them back" like you are sugesting i do, i didn't had any warning that this building would do THIS much damage, nothing, my units just DIED and i couldn't stop it, oh yeah sure just take the city in one turn duh but what about those times i simply cannot afford to do so? am i supposed just to lose my units like this? this is just dumb, plain and simple, and the damage is obviously bugged because i refuse to believe the damage dealt by a watchtower is supposed to be this high when it clearly says in its description it only does 15% damage to adyacent units, not 100%

in order to being able to continue playing this save, i nerfed these buildings by editing their values in the Regular_CIV4BuildingInfos XML file, nerfed their damage to 1% and that way i was able to NOT get my units killed in a single turn and got rid of these dumb buildings forever, however, the damage being dealt to some of my units is clearly a lot more than 1% as i'll show you in this screenshot

i pulled back the units that got hit by the defenses this turn and as you can clearly see, all of them took way more damage than 1% damage wich is the amount of damage i set these buildings to do after editing their values in the XML file, i can continue playing this save now, but the damage being dealt still high even after nerfing the buildings, so they are definetly bugged in my game and are doing a lot more damage than they should

 

[Thunderbrd]

did you check the doctors and other units aswell? in my save they are nuked and if they don't heal themselves they die next turn, i played enough of this save to see that there's something skechy going on with these buildings at least in my games

You can't have weak units like these hanging out next to a city. They MUST be pulled back if you aren't taking the city in the same round. Technically their strength isn't really the reason, but there's no cause to have them hanging out there adjacent to the city taking damage they don't need to take.

in that save im outright losing units to these defenses, they are dying if they spend a turn adyacent to a city because the defenses are doing so much damage that they are killing the units, just press the end turn button and check the my stack of units at Fukushima, as soon as i end that turn they'll lose a ton of units to those defenses, that definetly has to be a bug of some sort, just like the bug im experiencing with my siege units not being able to attack the enemy directly after the first attack, that's why i upgraded them with ranged bombardment promotions, so i can at least use them, also the reason i camped my units at the other side of the river is so the enemy gets the penalty for crossing said river if they try to attack my units

Yes, that will happen if you leave injured units next to a well built up city of an enemy. That's why the injured units need to be moved away from the city. As for the river crossing... ok, it does seem to probably hinder them more than it would you in a counterattack situation.

espionage revolts aren't working for me so i stopped trying to use them in this save

If there's a lot of LE units in a city it can be very hard to pull off so I understand that.

just in case it wasn't clear enough that these buildings are doing way more damage than what they are supposed to be doing...

Each defensive building will roll a random chance with each unit adjacent to the city to see if they damage the unit or not and if they do, they deal a fixed % of the unit's maximum health, a % that by this era is fairly high, plus each building that its this ability makes its own check so you'll see a range of damage being dealt across your units. Some units may even be killed if they were fully healthy and spending a round next to the city. But usually, if fully healthy, or at least close, they can stay there and have a very good chance of survival. Some, as luck would have it, won't even be harmed. The ones that are into the yellow, I'd advise to pull back a space to where the healers should be camped out and the ones still in the green should press the attack. Whenever a healing unit reaches full health, send him in to attack the city. You'll keep some quarter to a third of your forces constantly attacking that way and probably won't lose any units at all unless they are truly unfortunate. Reading your reply further...

127 units... wich means that 40 UNITS just died to the WATCHTOWER in this city wich apparently only does 15% damage but its clearly NOT doing that much damage but more than 100% because all these units just died for spending a turn adyacent to this city, what happends next turn?

The watchtower isn't the ONLY defensive building is it? Plus, maybe they had attacked some?

i pulled back the units that got hit by the defenses this turn and as you can clearly see, all of them took way more damage than 1% damage wich is the amount of damage i set these buildings to do after editing their values in the XML file, i can continue playing this save now, but the damage being dealt still high even after nerfing the buildings, so they are definetly bugged in my game and are doing a lot more damage than they should

hmm... I didn't seem to experience this so I'm not sure what's taking place but it's far more complex than I've got time to look into the code on at the moment. That said, it does warrant some further look into things. I didn't see any units being eradicated when I ran the turn but I also wasn't expecting to so wasn't watching for the possibility that some might be eliminated without a notification of any kind. It's possible I suppose and I'd have to look at that much deeper but this is a super complex game to be looking that deeply at the code as it processes. I will have to spend a weekend trying to figure this out at some point.

 

[arthas125]

Each defensive building will roll a random chance with each unit adjacent to the city to see if they damage the unit or not and if they do, they deal a fixed % of the unit's maximum health, a % that by this era is fairly high, plus each building that its this ability makes its own check so you'll see a range of damage being dealt across your units. Some units may even be killed if they were fully healthy and spending a round next to the city. But usually, if fully healthy, or at least close, they can stay there and have a very good chance of survival. Some, as luck would have it, won't even be harmed. The ones that are into the yellow, I'd advise to pull back a space to where the healers should be camped out and the ones still in the green should press the attack. Whenever a healing unit reaches full health, send him in to attack the city. You'll keep some quarter to a third of your forces constantly attacking that way and probably won't lose any units at all unless they are truly unfortunate. Reading your reply further...

do you really see the example in my post above and believe something like that is remotely acceptable? my units are dying instantly and the enemy is losing NOTHING to do so, i can't attack any city properly, i can't "Pull injured units away" because they are DEAD

The watchtower isn't the ONLY defensive building is it? Plus, maybe they had attacked some?

the other is probably the ballista tower wich does 20% but my units got damaged by a lot more than that

hmm... I didn't seem to experience this so I'm not sure what's taking place but it's far more complex than I've got time to look into the code on at the moment. That said, it does warrant some further look into things. I didn't see any units being eradicated when I ran the turn but I also wasn't expecting to so wasn't watching for the possibility that some might be eliminated without a notification of any kind. It's possible I suppose and I'd have to look at that much deeper but this is a super complex game to be looking that deeply at the code as it processes. I will have to spend a weekend trying to figure this out at some point.

that's fair, i was able to continue playing this save by nerfing those buildings to the ground anyways but its enfuriating that i had to rely on that in order to keep playing my save

i can't imagine the AI being able to deal with these buildings either, no wonder why all my games have been so passive with barely any wars going on, defending cities is way to easy and boring thanks to these buildings being so overtuned

 

[JosEPh_II]

@arthas125 ,

I'll ruffle old feathers here with this post, but....Thunderbrd wants you to play combat a certain way. He has extensively designed his combat system to follow what he deems is best. Now while it maybe the best way.., or not, if you play differently or desire to play differently then you pay the price if you go counter the design methods.

The way to Not be overly penalized by playing a combat style different than what he has manufactured and purposefully designed, with meticulous care I will add, is to Not use his Combat mod options. So you Do have Options. We strive to give players Options. This is why our Options list is so big.

You learn by playing different options, then you find out what ends up to your liking or not liking.

 

[Joij21]

Ok I've been recently playing arthas125's save without any nerfs to see how everything turns out. So far it has actually been pretty easy (its actually been pretty much a turkey shoot) with the only nuisance being that the enemy has a lot of units. So it takes awhile to capture certain cities, not that this is hard but it's rather tedious as they are pretty weak units, just a lot of them. As a matter of fact I think I'll make another thread documenting my playthrough of arthas125's save.