City Development

[Ahriman]

Just noticed that post-patch Great Artists yield 3 now - so BCD actually nerfs them to 2. Should we leave them as is or go with vanilla here?

Go with vanilla; hopefully they have also changed AI preferences so that the AI won't go "ooh, culture" and take every culture specialist spot it can?

 

[Sneaks]

The AI still will, and honestly it is not so terrible a decision now that Tradition and Liberty are nearly as valuable as the later trees.

 

[Seek]

Thal - I think the cultural border adjustments made here can be removed; the vanilla expansion is actually quite good now. The balance between food, production and gold is much better, and the value of resources is taken into greater consideration.

 

[Thalassicus]

Strange thing is... nothing changed on the xml side of things. They must have made some undocumented changes in the c++ border expansion code. I'll remove the alteration to the distance modifier.

 

[manarod]

I love your mod and this is the first time i write in this forum, but i like to give some advice
The nationl wonders are awesome except for the national treasury. I don't understand why it gives a flat bonus and not a % bonus. That logical choice is the most populated ciy (tha capital 9 times over 10).
In my games i was able to build focus cities of science, culture, production and great people but not a financial. For me in not important in what city i build a village, every city has the same % over the coins. I would like to see a city where is more important to build financial improvement as the villages.
I hope to been usefull and sorry for my english (i'm from Italy)

 

[Txurce]

The nationl wonders are awesome except for the national treasury. I don't understand why it gives a flat bonus and not a % bonus. That logical choice is the most populated ciy (tha capital 9 times over 10).
In my games i was able to build focus cities of science, culture, production and great people but not a financial. For me in not important in what city i build a village, every city has the same % over the coins. I would like to see a city where is more important to build financial improvement as the villages.

Altering the NT Wonder from a flat rate and anything else that could be done to create a financial city could add more richness to the game.

 

[SlightlyMad]

I'm fine with flat bonuses for standard buildings, but I feel like national wonders should almost always be a percent increase to encourage city specialization. As it is now, there's really no reason to build most of them anywhere but your capital.

 

[orangecape]

Putting in % bonuses actually increases the benefit of stacking absolutely everything in your capital anyway. Capital cities in TBC are going to be bigger than anything else (not as much as vanilla, due to Maritime changes, but still bigger) and have the palace supplying additional gold, science, culture and production. Unless you have another city that is quite large and particularly specialized it is never going to overcome the additional benefits of the size of the capital and the palace and % NW will always be ideally located in the capital.

 

[manarod]

But the bonus from the palace can't match the mint, so i can build the nation treasury in that city instead that in in the capital, where you have to choose between farm (science) and villages (coins)

 

[Thalassicus]

Manarod has an excellent point that % bonuses boost base tile yields, and the capital might not necessarily have the best base gold value. Coastal cities and ones with lots of river tiles can pump out a huge amount of gold. It's reasonable to change it to a percentage bonus.

I've changed the Ironworks and National Treasury to the same flat + percentage combination pattern as the National College.

 

[SlightlyMad]

Yeah, capitals are often the best at everything, just because city specialization is weak so people tend to focus on their capital. Production is pretty much the one exception to that in civ5 though, since it's most beneficial to specialize your capital towards growing as large as possible. Generally if I have a well-placed city that specializes in production, it will out-pace my capital by the medieval era or so. A good commerce city that out-paces the capital is less common, but like has been said with the mint and other buildings I've had it happen in a few games.

I think part flat and part percent is a good compromise though. I don't suppose there's any possible way to bring back the two per city limit?

 

[Thalassicus]

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[orangecape]

You can definitely cap national wonders at a fixed number per city.

"MAX_NATIONAL_WONDERS_PER_CITY"

in Defines.

I tried doing that myself and didn't like the results much, but it might be useful.

 

[SlightlyMad]

Maybe try it with 3 and see how it plays?

 

[gandalf51]

Thalassicus some ideas :
What about making hospital increase heal of units in the city ?
Could you make workers and great peoples stackable ?, it would make moving/stocking them much easier. Also I saw an IA use a great people to explore with other military units !

 

[Thalassicus]

Hospitals providing healing is something I would not be able to tell the AI about, so I'd rather not use it.

I haven't really looked into stackability much, I think it's a bit beyond the scope of the mod.

 

[SlightlyMad]

Increased healing in a city would be pointless, since the heal rate is so high anyways that it would rarely be noticeable.

 

[Stalker0]

Thal I'm going to throw my comments into each thread as opposed to the combined thread, it sounded like you prefer that.

The only city issue I have now is I think the seaport is too strong with +1 gold to all sea tiles. I like that the sea tiles have 2 gold, making them better than villages early on. But at 3 gold I am just raking in the cash without a thought. I don't even need markets and banks to have a big surplus.

It might be better with +1 gold for the resource tiles, for perhaps allow it to provide naval units a +15 Xp bump...so naval units can get a bit more experience (currently only the harbor provides xp for sea units I believe).


Last thing I've mention is that I haven't found too much use for the "+1 hammer next to fresh water/+1 gold next to fresh water". Right now I still prefer the extra food on those squares from farming. Though I will admit the option is nice.

 

[SlightlyMad]

Last thing I've mention is that I haven't found too much use for the "+1 hammer next to fresh water/+1 gold next to fresh water". Right now I still prefer the extra food on those squares from farming. Though I will admit the option is nice.

I make use of them all the time in my gold and production cities. I love it, because it actually gives me pause to choose which improvement is best.

 

[Iceco]

May I ask where in the code you made the "in 80% of cities requirement" for national wonders?
I found the <Building_PrereqBuildingClassesPercentage> table you created in the Patch part of the mod, but can't find the Lua or SQL I assume you made to make that table actually mean something.

I'm asking because I need to find a way to change the requirement of a specific national wonder (needing a combination of building classes) for my own mod and don't know how to do it and hoped I could get some inspiration from yours.