City Names Feedback Thread

[Lilna]

A few more things:
1 - Sighisoara was apparently founded by Saxon settlers in the middle ages, I would use Arcobara (also spelled arcobadara) as a name which is the most northeastern castrum in romania I was able to find.
2- Baghdad and Cairo were founded by the Arabs, after the roman collapse, I would suggest the names to stay as Babylon and Memphis

Personally I'd have Ctesiphon be the Roman name for Babylon, and have the Persians or indies past a certain date use Tisfon (or Tyspwn if you wanna keep the authentic spelling). Baghdad hadn't been founded yet, and Babylon had long since fallen from prominence. Seleucia ad Tigrim might also work for Rome if it's grabbed from the Greeks and not the Persians. But 'Bagdatum' shouldn't be showing up.

 

[Leoreth]

we have bruges as a Roman name, I did some research and we may be able to use the name of the neighboring Aardenburg: Rodanum. I also found this atlas: https://imperium.ahlfeldt.se/

some more Roman names:
Marrakush can be changed to Banasa and Bakoù to Ramana. See atlas for Banasa and this articles for Ramana:

Ramana, Azerbaijan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A few more things:
1 - Sighisoara was apparently founded by Saxon settlers in the middle ages, I would use Arcobara (also spelled arcobadara) as a name which is the most northeastern castrum in romania I was able to find.
2- Baghdad and Cairo were founded by the Arabs, after the roman collapse, I would suggest the names to stay as Babylon and Memphis

Thanks for these suggestions. However, it seems that the game states you are showing are after Arabs/Moors had temporary control of these tiles and established their names as Marrakesh, Cairo and Baghdad. In these situations, Rome will not change those city names to the name they would have founded on these tiles as but instead use the appropriate Latin version of the changed names.

 

[hnrysml]

Watching @Hickman888's new video on the Mali Empire I was wondering why the canonical city that spawns is Rano and not Kano, as far as I can see Kano which would be on the same tile has existed for longer and been more important for most of the history of cities in that area?

 

[Krieger-FS]

I’d like to share some suggestions regarding the Nubians. Initially, my intent was only to make some feedback on city names and make a few adjustments to settler priorities, but after reading extensively about the Nubians (and getting an itch to write a deep-dive post about them like I did in my old proposals, since they have a fascinating and mostly unknow history for most people), it grew into somenthing bigger. As always, would love some feedback.

Thus, regarding the map changes:

Spoiler :

• Changed the course of the White and Blue Nile (red lines) to better reflect their actual paths;
• Added hills (black X) to represent the Nuba Hills and to better depict the Red Sea Hills, which run from Egypt to Eritrea before merging with the Ethiopian Highlands;
• Converted a few of the southernmost plain tiles into savanna tiles (light green), since those areas are more humid and fertile than the surrounding regions of Sudan;
• Extended the desert tile (white);
• Added Gold (yellow circle), representing the famous Fazogli goldfields. Today, Sudan is also the third-largest producer of gold in Africa, with the areas near the Blue Nile among the most important reserves;
• Probably is too much, but if you consider it interesting, we also could add a Horse 1E of Millet: Arab writers described the archers and horsemen, particularly from Alodia, as the most powerful military forces among the Medieval Christian Nubians

Now, regarding the city names: it is important to emphasize that urban centers have existed in Nubia for many millennia, influenced partly by Egypt but also as an indigenous cultural tradition. As in many other regions of the world, Nubian cities rose and fell over the ages, usually tied to the fortunes of various kingdoms and to foreign invasions, particularly those by neighboring nomadic and semi-nomadic peoples, which often led to deurbanization. Some cities even share the same name, though they were different settlements founded at different times (for example, Old and New Dongola, or ancient Meroe and modern Merowe).

As such, I’ve divided somewhat arbitrary city names into three “eras”: 1) the Ancient Nubia, which includes the kingdoms of Kerma, Kush and Meroe (corresponding to Ancient to Classical Ages); 2) Christian Nubia, whose main kingdoms were Nobatia, Makuria and Alodia (corresponding to Medieval Age); 3) Sudan, which includes Funj Sultanate, Turkiyah (Egypto-Ottoman Sudan), British colonization (Anglo-Egyptian Sudan) and post-Independence Sudan (Renaissance to Digital Age). I’ve added the in-game map with the names for better visualization, but also a spreadsheet attached with more detailed information (such as name changes, variations, etc.).

Spoiler Ancient Nubia :

Although the Meroitic language has been deciphered, we still know very little about how the ancient Nubians named their cities; in fact, we do not even know what language they spoke before Meroitic times. Kerma, for example, is a modern name. Moreover, most of the recorded ancient names come from Lower Nubia, the region closest to Egypt.

For this reason, I have included some modern names (shown in italics in the spreadsheet) or those only recorded in non-Nubian. Those marked with an asterisk (*) are modern names in modern Nubian languages.

Spoiler Christian Nubia :

By the medieval era, Old Nubian had emerged as the language of Makuria, remaining in use until the kingdom’s fall. It was written with the Coptic alphabet and has been reconstructed, though most surviving documents and inscriptions concern private or religious matters. As a result, we still lack many indigenous city names. Greek and Coptic also appear to have been common, at least in religious contexts.

Similarly, I have included modern or recorded Arabic names, particularly for Alodian sites, the southernmost Nubian kingdom, and also the least well known.

Spoiler Sudan :

After the collapse of Christian Nubia, the Funj Sultanate emerged. Their origins and linguistic background prior to their conversion to Islam remain poorly documented, but by the time they conquered Alodia—the last surviving Christian Nubian kingdom—they were already undergoing Arabization and claimed descent from Arab tribes. By the 18th century, when the Funj adopted a more fundamentalist interpretation of Islam, most of the older Nubian pre-Islamic traditions were lost. Arabic had by then become the dominant language in Sudan, while modern Nubian languages survived only in a few regions.

Please note that the map below focuses on Funj names.

The current settler values are generally fine if we look only at Ancient Nubia, and Leoreth has recently updated them. My suggestions aim to build on that work, with particular attention to the Medieval Age onward. The idea is also to allow the Nubians, if they are successful in maintaining their empire, to fill in the gaps left by Ethiopia and a potential Central African civ.

Spoiler Nubian Settler Values :

• Blue: settler value 10 - Napata/Dongola and Meroe (Ancient)
• Yellow: 8 - Pakhoras/Faras and Soba (Medieval)
• Green: 5 - Kerma/Kawa/Dotawo and Sennar
• White: 3 or 2 - Dib/Aswan; Pedeme/Qasr Ibrim; Dungeil/Kabushia/Berber/Atbara; Alays; Fazughli; Uri/Kobbe; and Tajuwa/Ouara.

Some remarks:

1. I still think they should start at the Napata/Dongola tile, but I feel this has already been considered and the decision to start at Meroe was maintained. Just mentioning it, since I don’t want to Königsberg about it!
2. I would give a much higher settler priority to Soba (capital of Alodia) and Sennar (Funj). The former also helps create a smooth transition to Khartoum much later. Their priority can be increased during the Medieval Age, just as Meroe loses much of its importance by then. Similarly, I added some priority to Fazogli: the Kingdom of Fazughli was founded by Alodian nobility fleeing the Funj destruction of Soba and later became an important regional capital of the sultanate, and to Alays, another significant regional capital, second only to Sennar.
3. I suggest a few extra points of settler value to Uri and Tajuwa, both in Darfur. These were, respectively, the capitals of the medieval Tunjur and Daju kingdoms, both supposedly founded by Nubian refugees. In addition, Tajuwa can serve as a good transition to Ouara/Wara, the capital of the Wadai Sultanate, while Uri can become Kobbe, the early capital of the Sultanate of Darfur.
4. Arabs, Egyptians (both before and after their medieval respawn), Ottomans, and the English could also use some tweaks to their settler values on certain tiles in the region. Khartoum, Al-Fashir, and many historical Red Sea ports (Badi, Suakin, Port Sudan, Massawa) were all founded by peoples linked to those civilizations and played a very relevant role in Sudan. Heck, even Ptolemaic Egypt/Greeks founded some port cities if we want to slip in a few easter eggs such as Ptolomais Theron.

 

[Leoreth]

Thanks, that makes sense. I did not want to give Nubia settler values that far south and west because it would be wrong for ancient Nubia to expand there. I have since added the medieval Nubia period but haven't touched their settler values yet. Making these changes for them is definitely a good idea.

To make my life easier, based on the earliest city name screenshot you shared, could you give me a list of name changes for every affected tile somewhat like this:

Para (Egyptian) -> Pakhoras (Greek) -> Faras (Arabic)
Kerma (Nubian) -> Dotawo (Nubian, different city) -> Qasr Ibrim (Arabic, different city)

I need to know what language a name is associated with and whether it is just a name change or a different city than the one with the other name. Having to look all that up would slow me down a lot. If you know any names for these cities from non local languages (e.g. English) that would also help.

 

[Krieger-FS]

Here is the list in a .txt file in the requested pattern. Also added few tweeks