City Names in Dune Wars

Fenring · Oct 7, 2009

The proposal for integrated Fremen cities list:

1. Sietch Tabr
2. Gara Kulon
3. Sietch Makab
4. Sietch Abbir
5. Coanua
6. Windgap Sietch
7. Tasmin Sink
8. Hobars Gap
9. Umbu Sietch
10. Jacurutu
11. Bikouros Sietch
12. Cahueit Caves
13. Djedida Pan
14. Abumojandis Gap
15. Rajifiri's Nest
16. Saajid Cliffs
17. Legg Abode
18. Shishakli's Place
19. Chatt's Leap
20. Merkur Sietch
21. Keke Hideout
22. Takim Rock
23. Tecrube Sietch
24. Shamir Wall
25. Fash Lookout
26. Tuek's Sietch
27. Bannerjee's Post

My suggestion is that Fremen should share the list with "barbarians". It would be reasonable fluff-wise, as Fremen tribes tend to integrate and disintegrate and rival one another and generally seek independence and entertain certain distaste for central authority (as proven by the content of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune). In this context, I would also suggest creating a category of Independent (Smuggler?) cities, just like in Rhye's and Fall - that you cannot have detailed diplomatic relations with, but you can be at peace with unless you step into their territory. I think the pool is sufficient to support all mentioned groups (if not, I can invent some more).

Once we agree on that, I will try to arrange a general list for other civs.

davidlallen · Oct 7, 2009

Fenring said:
The proposal for integrated Fremen cities list:

Great, thanks. There are three more lists: one capitol city per civ; other city names; and barbarian city names. I'd rather not share a list of 25 names between Fremen and barbarians; the list would need to be longer.

Deliverator · Oct 7, 2009

As said before I think these are good choices for Capitals:

Atreides - Arrakeen
Harkonnen - Carthag

Beyond that we have to be a bit creative. Brainstorm:

Ordos - Acquisition Sigma
Corrino - Imperial Hutment
Bene Gesserit - School of Arrakis
Ecaz - Fogwood Landing
Ix - New Vernii
Tleilaxu - Tleilaxu Enclave

(Fremen is Sietch Tabr according to Fenring's list)

Ahriman · Oct 7, 2009

"Hutment" seems a bit wrong for the Emperor. A hutment is just a collection of huts or small temporary buildigns. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hutment
I know thats the term they use for the Emperor's landing structure thing, but again, thats temporary, not a palace.

I prefer Academy to school for Bene G.
How about New Xuttuh (their rename of Ix) or New Bandalong (their homeword capital) for Bene Tl?

Should we make Hagga a capital?

Fenring · Oct 7, 2009

Is this 20ish per faction a commonsensical number or is it dictated by the coding needs? What's more: are there a reliable simulation how many cities maps designed for Dune Wars may actually host? How many cities barbarians tend to found per game?

I think the easiest solution is to use for "natives" cathegory the same general list we're about to design for non-native faction if their original list is depleted. That said, I think I can employ my inventiveness to make it a tad longer. For a joint native list, how many names do you actually need?

To rephrase my point and make it clear, I think it should look like this:

Capital Cities of non-native factions ----> General list
List for native factions -----> General list

Overall, I think 80 to 100 names for all factions combined can be designed this way or another. Will it be insufficient?

davidlallen · Oct 7, 2009

Fenring said:
Is this 20ish per faction a commonsensical number or is it dictated by the coding needs?

It is commonsensical. From the code standpoint, you could easily have two city names in the list. That means if you have 10 cities, 5 will have one name and 5 will have the other. There are a lot of variables, such as map size, number of players, game difficulty which make it impossible to give a hard limit. It is probably reasonable for a winning civ to have 10-15 cities. For a single civ city list, 20 does not seem like overkill. For an 11 player game, where each player has 10 cities, and the city list is shared, it seems like at least a hundred would be needed.

We can combine the "non-capital cities of non-Fremen civs" and "barbarian" into a single list, but it should still be at least 100.

Slvynn · Oct 28, 2009

SL04 Barb City names need some change because they use vanilla barb list names, and thats seems wrong

Deliverator · Oct 28, 2009

I'm keen to push this City Names thing forward. It is a simple way to add flavour.

@David: If I can come up with the required list of 100+ city names using the input from this thread. Can you do the python bits and include in version 1.6.3?

davidlallen · Oct 28, 2009

Deliverator said:
If I can come up with the required list of 100+ city names using the input from this thread. Can you do the python bits and include in version 1.6.3?

Yes, I can do that. To restate: we need a good capitol name for each civ; we need 20 specific Fremen city names; and we need 100 other names which will be allocated randomly to all other cities. However, I would like to get one other person voting in favor of random names. When I play a certain civ multiple times, I come to know the names of the second and third cities, so I can more easily remember things about them. With random names, there is no way to associate city names with anything across multiple games.

How do others feel about random name assignment for all non-capitol cities?

Slvynn · Oct 28, 2009

I like random idea, hovever each civ should keep some list for original ones to keep own flavor , so not completely random, lets say each 5th name should be Civ specific.

davidlallen · Oct 28, 2009

Slvynn said:
I like random idea, hovever each civ should keep some list for original ones to keep own flavor , so not completely random, lets say each 5th name should be Civ specific.

Let us agree on something. As noted earlier in the thread, I know how to set the capitol city name, that happens once early in the game. Keeping track of how many names have been allocated by the game is harder. I am sure it is possible, but I don't know how to do it. For example, city #2 may be destroyed before city #4 is built.

So if most people want 5 names kept for each civ then the project will have to go onto the back burner. We could have a different project, to review and fix up the "worst offenders" in the existing name lists; that is fine and it is a pure xml change. See earlier in the thread for the full existing name lists.

Slvynn · Oct 28, 2009

davidlallen said:
Let us agree on something. As noted earlier in the thread, I know how to set the capitol city name, that happens once early in the game. Keeping track of how many names have been allocated by the game is harder. I am sure it is possible, but I don't know how to do it. For example, city #2 may be destroyed before city #4 is built.

So if most people want 5 names kept for each civ then the project will have to go onto the back burner. We could have a different project, to review and fix up the "worst offenders" in the existing name lists; that is fine and it is a pure xml change. See earlier in the thread for the full existing name lists.

I am ok with any of your choices and i agree with you. If its hard to implement, we can put it on long-term possible goals list, and for now just to
1. revise existing lists
2. Make all that random
I am ok with both. For me current names are really good, except barbarian ones, which are from vanilla barb list.

Ahriman · Oct 28, 2009

How do others feel about random name assignment for all non-capitol cities?

I am relatively indifferent. I don't really remember my cities by name, I remember them by "the one over there with lots of mesa tiles", or "the one on the island I have making aircraft" or the one on the border with the Ordos".

Deliverator · Oct 28, 2009

To restate: we need a good capitol name for each civ; we need 20 specific Fremen city names; and we need 100 other names which will be allocated randomly to all other cities.

Ok, I'll make the list. I think a civ unique capitol name, and random after that is fine with me.

When I play a certain civ multiple times, I come to know the names of the second and third cities, so I can more easily remember things about them. With random names, there is no way to associate city names with anything across multiple games.

I guess the only thing this can really help with is knowing "That is the third city I built" - but is that really a useful thing to know? Surely that's the only thing that is common across multiple games.

I generally remember cities more by location than by name like Ahriman.

Deliverator · Oct 28, 2009

I've blitzed out these. Capitals, 20 Fremen cities and 100 other names. The real dune names run out pretty quickly, so I've followed Ahriman's suggestion and used some Arabic placenames - there are lists of old Arabic placenames in Portugal and Spain that were quite handy. They are also a few known Fremen words in the pot too. We might want to put Rock, Pass, Gap, Basin, etc after some of these. This list is by no means perfect, but is hopefully an improvement of the names we have now which are real mixed bag.

I have mental block for the Imperial capitol so if you have a better suggestion...

Spoiler :

Ahriman · Oct 28, 2009

Ix - New Xuttuh

This doesn't work. Xuttuh was the Tleilaxu name for Ix. The Ixians never used it.
I suggested New Xuttuh OR New Bandalong for a Tleilaxu capital.
New Vernii was fine IMO for Ix.

And maybe Chapterhouse instead of Academy for BGs?

How about Imperial Seat, rather than Base for Corrino.

The random list looks nice.

Slvynn · Oct 28, 2009

I suggest those for imperial capitol:
Head of Lion
City of Lion
Golden Landing

More cities :

Falhj
Masayr
Nib-Kuhdi
City of Saluric Mesa
Kajh-Ahiri
Ayatayana
Nibra
Sulfi-I'Ayur

Deliverator · Oct 28, 2009

Ahriman said:
This doesn't work. Xuttuh was the Tleilaxu name for Ix. The Ixians never used it.
I suggested New Xuttuh OR New Bandalong for a Tleilaxu capital.
New Vernii was fine IMO for Ix.

I got confused by the suggestions - I'll amend.

And maybe Chapterhouse instead of Academy for BGs?

Yeah, that is better isn't it?

How about Imperial Seat, rather than Base for Corrino.

I can go for that. I'll update the post.

Deliverator · Oct 31, 2009

Slvynn said:
The issue that my Ordos ally (Roma) capitol named New Bandalong.
Seems because certain civs have not 1 player but more all things messed up.
But its very odd that Ordos have BTl capitol name, while BTl in game.

Mey be need to assign more than 1 capitol name for civ? (lets say 3 and each game you will have random one of 3 name for capitol)

This is something we didn't think of. Perhaps we need 2 or 3 capitol names per civ?

Slvynn · Oct 31, 2009

Yep. Multiple leaders for civ is normal - for mp and sp as well. (Lets say fight between Alia and Leto II setting , or fight for Emperror throne Paul , Feyd, Rabban

)

It will be also cool because even when you start new game with same civ your capital might be named differently , and thats cool.

Also we need to check landmass amount for huge maps (esp low desert setting)
May be 100 is not enough *shrug*
Arrakis script is big one, Freemen are not always in game.

City Names in Dune Wars

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Chieftain

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Deity

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Deity

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Tyrant

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Tyrant

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