City Placement

[vmxa]

Oh, but I advice closer placement than OCP aswell. My point was just that you don't need CXXC to win at higher levels, and if you do, you are, in a way, admitting that you are not as good a player as someone who doesn't. (no offense)
Tomoyo basically said the same thing but with less words.

Well the term need is where it breaks down IMO. I would not say a solid player needs tight spacing, but you have no good reason to not use it.

If Sirian or others want to forego it, that is surely doable. The real issue is it will only hurt new players to use OCP at any level. I reject the idea that one needs to play like the AI. As I said most will not do RoP rape and the AI will. Most will not automate workers and the AI will and so on. So that concept is not impressive to me.

I am not sure I could beat AWDG on a pangea map, using OCP and I am not real sure anyone ever has. I would love to see it. OCP is insane at any level, if you are on a small island.

I would not try to use it in any Sid games either. Again I have never seen one where someone did use it either. It just does not make any sense.

Variant rules are great and restricting oneself to OCP is a fine variant, but is not something to teach new players. They should not be playing varinats. That is my whole point.

If the no offense was meant for me, not to worry I grew out of that crap a long time ago. I neither think I am great, nor do I care. Alhought my grand kids think I am great, but they lack experience.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

I reject the idea that one needs to play like the AI. As I said most will not do RoP rape and the AI will. Most will not automate workers and the AI will and so on. So that concept is not impressive to me.

Good point
(But I still like OCP...)

I am not sure I could beat AWDG on a pangea map,

What or who is that?

 

[Sashie VII]

I am not sure I could beat AWDG on a pangea map

Always War DemiGod?

 

[MAS]

Still, when we advice new players on city placement, all we say is: "build them closer" While this provides a great boost to a new player, they still often end up placing them in a not so well thought out pattern.
Sirian, in his early SG's, taught people to come up with good city placement. keeping in mind both a city's short and long term power.
Simply building them closer is something you can always do after you've learned that...

And vmxa, I'm pretty sure you are a better player than I am.

(one nitpick, "Always war" is also a variant! Maybe not to you but... to a new player... )

 

[Tomoyo]

Just wondering, what are we considering OCP in this thread? Is it the CxxxC on one axis, and CxxxxC on the other axis placement? Or just plain CxxxC or CxxxxC?

One of the things that I loved about Sirian's games was that his city placement was always extremely aesthetically pleasing.

 

[vmxa]

I presume they mean no overlapping tiles, so all towns will have 21 tiles.

 

[Tomoyo]

CxxxxC on both axes.

Doesn't strike me as impossible to win AWE with that, since it's been done. Should be possible as AWDG if it's been done with AWE.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I thought OCP was CxxxxC on one axis, with the other offset enough to give each city 18-20 tiles at max size?

 

[Tomoyo]

OCP as described in the OCP article that I'm too lazy to find is CxxxxC on one axis, CxxxC on the other, without cities lining up on the second axis. Leads to 20 tiles per city.

OCP has been used loosely to refer to well, loose city placement.

 

[vmxa]

CxxxxC on both axes.

Doesn't strike me as impossible to win AWE with that, since it's been done. Should be possible as AWDG if it's been done with AWE.

I did not use the term impossible nor AWE. AWE is much easier than AWDG on pangea and I was not talking about any SG. I mean by yourself. SG drops the game at least 1/2 a level IMO.

You have others to help you not to forget or get too tired and correct any missteps in an SG. When you forgot that you meant to start an FP in a solo game, becasue you had so many fights to handle. You do not get to pass it off after 5 turns and have someone discover the oversight.

You do not get to post where you are at the moment and see if anyone has any input.

Fact is I do not recall seeing any even in an SG. That is not the same as saying it is impossibe. I have been cured of that type of a statement. I merely said I would like to read about it.

 

[vmxa]

I thought OCP was CxxxxC on one axis, with the other offset enough to give each city 18-20 tiles at max size?

They had been talking about having 21 tiles, so that means no overlap. Back in C3 vanilla, when they said OCP they meant 21 tiles, but that may have changed.

Does not matter to me as I can't really use more than 12 anyway. I rarely research sanitation. On a huge conquest game, I may steal it and pop a few hospitals. Even then I am not going to use 21 tiles.

 

[Tomoyo]

I was thinking about this game when I said that. The erm, "extra" limitations in that game past OCP were what led me to believe it would be possible on Demigod...

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

What is AWE?

The best I can come up with is Always War Emperor?

 

[Tomoyo]

AWE is Always War Emperor. Well, it should probably be "Always War - Emperor". But it's not. It's Always War Emperor.

I've always wondered who coined the term "Always War". It sounds a bit odd.

 

[TimBentley]

I don't see it in LoTR2; it may be LK21.

AW games can be beaten with OCP (OCP because no settlers are built) on deity even, on a tiny map (as the Aztecs, after many maps). It even looks like on a small map. I don't know whether boogaboo actually declared war that quickly, but I assume it wouldn't have been much harder if it was AW. It looks like he used OCP on sid, too, but I'm pretty sure he signed peace a couple of times. Certainly OCC (and thus OCP) AW sid has been beaten, but that's a unique situation too.

To stop discussing games purely for the HOF and moving on to standard maps, OCP on AWDG would be quite difficult.

 

[Desertsnow]

I like my capital and the next couple cities to have full use of the 21-tile zone but graduate later down to OCP.

 

[thetrooper]

I've always wondered who coined the term "Always War". It sounds a bit odd.

Arathorn?

First user I noticed anyway.

I use CxxxxxxC for my 5CC games, at great risk!

 

[MAS]

In Sirians games, as far as i've seen screenshots of them, the city's do overlap, but they overlap as minimal as possible. He does want to avoid having tiles in his empire that NO citizen can ever work.

This is what I call OCP, O stands for "optimal" after all.

Using the full 21 tiles for each city means that inbetween cities, there will be 3 or 4 tiles that can not be used by any city. 4 tiles if you place them in a square pattern and 3 tiles if you place them in a pattern where thay are cxxxc diagonally.

This is uncompromising, so not optimal.

 

[Desertsnow]

Arathorn?

First user I noticed anyway.

I use CxxxxxxC for my 5CC games, at great risk!

Sirian names who invented Always War somewhere in his Civilization website but I can't offhand recall whom he mentioned.

 

[TimBentley]

Sirian names who invented Always War somewhere in his Civilization website but I can't offhand recall whom he mentioned.

Arathorn invented it in LoTR2, but he didn't use the term "always war."