civ 3 becoming part rts

[dc82]

after reading some articles on civ4 today, the impression that i'm gathering is that civ4 is becoming more and more of a blend of an rts, or at least will contain elements of it. for example, the combat system sounds very rts, where units will gain bonuses depending on the situation - so infantry will have bonuses over a certain terrain, mounted units will have an advantage over archers, etc.

the map from what i've gathered sounds also somewhat rts familiar - supposedly the buildings themselves will show on the map (that's what they meant by getting all info on one screen) - even in one of the screenshots i remember seeing a mesoamerican buildings, a temple perhaps.

the tech is much more open ended and fluid, compared to the era-specific tech tree in past civ games.

i guess it makes sense, that since civ inspired all these historical rts games, civ's taking some pointers.

oh yeah, there's supposedly one type of multiplayer mode in which everyone takes command on different aspects of the civ, such as military, city mgmt, etc.

 

[rbis4rbb]

I agreewith this. It's not necessarily a bad thing either. For instance, why shouldn't pikemen have a bonus against cavalry? Civ 3 already has terrain bonuses.

 

[covenant]

Adding logical pieces that improve gameplay that were first utlizied in an RTS is in no way bad. People see RTS and everyone panics. This is like someone who does a new special effect on TV, and someone in the movies says we cant use that cause its to TV like.

I for one have seen tons of cool features in different RTS's that would make great features for civ, possibly tweaked for turn-based.

Same goes for some RPG elements.

I want the best Civ game possible from the builder perspective.

 

[dc82]

oh yeah, i def. dun have any problems with it either... i think it'll be a nice mix of real time vs. turn based that'll keep a pace while still leaving u off the edge of ur seat.

 

[Evie]

Just a nitpick, but era-specific tech tree was only Civ III, and it was an openly decried aspect of it ; Civ II had a fluid tech three.

 

[DBear]

Didn't pikes have a bonus against mounted units back in Civ2? Or was it Civ1?

 

[Yuri2356]

In Civ2 pikes had a "+50% vs Mounted" bonus. ('Mounted' being defined as any unit with 2 MP and 1 FP)

 

[dh_epic]

It's safe to say that Civ 4 is taking a lot from other kinds of games. Even looking at RPGs like Diablo, you have an experience and upgrade system not unlike diablo for your units!

But I wouldn't say that Civ 4 is part RPG or part RTS. Fundamentally, it's still a Turn-Based Strategy game. To become an RTS, you'd need to go real time. It's just that straight up.

 

[p dandy]

I welcome this addition along with the special abilities that experienced units get. It adds more strategic depth. One of the things that always bothered me about strategy games were that some games had units that were basically the same but with adjusted numbers and a different graphics. I like that they are moving away from that. Plus, by including these bonuses against unit types, they actually promote (at least attempting to promote) usage of all the units and increase the realism of the gameplay. Hopefully the rest of the bonuses preserve the realism as well.
I understand that most TBS stalwarts don't want to see their game "diluted" but I'm a little more flexible.

 

[dc82]

But I wouldn't say that Civ 4 is part RPG or part RTS. Fundamentally, it's still a Turn-Based Strategy game. To become an RTS, you'd need to go real time. It's just that straight up.

well that's y i said part rts - the idea isn't that civ4 is another rts - it's still turn based - but at the same time, the point is that it's adopting a lot of qualities of a rts - so again, for example w/ the units, it's almost sounding as if u have the rocks, paper, scissors system where units r getting catorgorized w/ bonuses/advantages over other units. and w/ the 3d zoomable map, it's def. changing the feel to be much more like rise of nations or empire earth than compared to the old square icon days. anyways i'm pretty excited about how it'll turn out.

 

[tcjsavannah]

I already have a short attention span where I hate micro-managing and can't handle things like large armies.. making ANY aspect of Civ RTS would pretty much kill with extreme prejudice the game for me.

 

[dh_epic]

You can't be part RTS when the only thing that makes an RTS an RTS is that it's real time

You're either turn based, or real time. Strategy is strategy.

I'm just being fussy about semantics. But watch -- there will be a bunch of people coming into this thread who will **** their pants, saying "IF CIV IS AN RTS I WILL NOT BUY IT". That's why it's probably better to not to say anything about real-time.

 

[dc82]

i suppose - i'm not saying what u're saying is wrong, u're right, it's turn based, and that's the most important thing - my point again tho is that at the same time, while still retaining the turn-based mode, it's borrowing many elements found in rts games, giving it a pseudo rts feel on top of a turn based game. so at some glance it feels partly like an rts - don't forget tho, there was that test w/ the turnless mode w/ civ before - u never know if they're gonna bring that back, which is another grey blurring btw the two types of games.

 

[sir_schwick]

Rock-Paper-Scissors combat systems with bonuses rather than strict quantitative comparison of A/D is not an RTS exclusive feature. Turn based war-games have been using combat bonuses and RPS ideals for longer than most RTS have existed. Civ originally tried to not be like TB Wargames by only having A/D/M rather than bonuses and such.

 

[Commissar_Yari]

Rock-Paper-Scissors combat system for civ = ****.

 

[sir_schwick]

Those were some really strong supporting arguments for your thesis.

 

[CurtSibling]

Rock-Paper-Scissors combat systems with bonuses rather than strict quantitative comparison of A/D is not an RTS exclusive feature. Turn based war-games have been using combat bonuses and RPS ideals for longer than most RTS have existed. Civ originally tried to not be like TB Wargames by only having A/D/M rather than bonuses and such.

Well posted.

The CIV games were based from an old board game too, if I recall.

.

 

[dc82]

Rock-Paper-Scissors combat systems with bonuses rather than strict quantitative comparison of A/D is not an RTS exclusive feature. Turn based war-games have been using combat bonuses and RPS ideals for longer than most RTS have existed. Civ originally tried to not be like TB Wargames by only having A/D/M rather than bonuses and such.

heh, i think people r getting lost in semantics and not getting my point. it's not meant to be a hardcore thesis or even an argument. just an observation. all i was saying was that civ4 seems to be possessing certain characteristics that one often finds in an rts - doesn't mean those characteristics r exclusive to an rts, nor is it sayinv civ4 is an rts. call it whatever u want, at the end, civ4 is still changing portions of its gameplay structure.

 

[Darwin420]

call it whatever u want, at the end, civ4 is still changing portions of its gameplay structure.

Not trying to be rude, but isn't that the point of a successor title??

Civ2 was much, much more than Civ1 ever was. Civ3 was even more than Civ2 could have hoped to be. A lot of gameplay structure changed between the three titles (not to mention expansions), and for the most part, it worked out for the better. Culture and borders is one that should be pointed out... I remember people complaining about that way back when, but now most agree it was a good change.

I'm looking forward to all the changes cIV has to offer. I've not been disappointed yet (well, we won't mention PTW), and I doubt it will start with cIV.

Point being, whether the developers borrow ideas from the forsaken RTS games (I shudder), or from an MMRPG, or a board game, or even the Island of Dr. Brain ... if the changes make sense to make cIV a BETTER game, then what does it matter?

 

[dc82]

oh yeah, i'm not complaining about it at all... i'm pretty excited, esp. after reading the articles the other day. i can't wait to see it when it comes out.