Civ 3 GOTM#4 *Spoiler* talks

[Aeson]

It doesn't take reloading to understand how to win on Emperor difficulty, just some experience in playing at that level. Those who are familiar with "standard" procedure on higher difficulty levels know that the easiest way to catch up to the initial AI lead is through early warfare. Find the closest Civ, eliminate or disable them with an early pop-rushed military, getting all their tech for peace at some point in the conquest. It's almost required playstyle on Deity. Emperor it is just a good idea, though possible to win without.

I would say that for island maps, the Great Lighthouse should be a top priority going into the game, and early warfare helps there too. At least 1 AI is going to not have the resources to build it before you (as you are destroying their Civ), and all the fighting has a good chance of generating a leader to rush with. Playing as the English means you can research map making as your first advance, so its reasonably easy to get the Lighthouse with them.

 

[Hobbes]

Originally posted by marshalljames
In order to win this game you have to eliminate the french right away.And the only way you can know that is by reloading.If you do not stay in a constant war/peace with them and take their advances in treaties you'l get so far behind it's not funny.
I may even go further to say that anyone who submits a winning score cheated.

Marshalljames

A lack of good strategy, practice and well thought out play on your part does not correlate to cheating by others.

 

[SanPellegrino]

I tried tro build colossus in london soon, because I thought that was the early wonder I was able to get - aztecs built it 15 turns earlier, aargh. There was no wonder I could switch to at that time, so I had to buy mapmaking from the french (very expensive). Now it's only 1 turn till finishing, but I got literacy a turn ago.
Should I get lighthouse or GL? I know, Lighthouse is important on pelago and I don't know if I am able to make contact to the other civs with galleys w/o lighthouse. Is it possible w/o?

 

[Captain Sexual]

Marshalljames says

"In order to win this game you have to eliminate the french right away.And the only way you can know that is by reloading.If you do not stay in a constant war/peace with them and take their advances in treaties you'l get so far behind it's not funny.
I may even go further to say that anyone who submits a winning score cheated. "

This is crap. I didn't reload and I killed the French. Found them very early with my scout, made the decision that same turn that they had to be eliminated - scouted their area whilst building up swordsmen to the chokepoint (btw they traded me iron working, fools), and killed them. Well not killed them, they had established one city on another island but wiped them off my continent - for all intents and purposes they were destroyed.

Anyways, had a great session last night. Pounded the Aztecs into submission. I'm well on the way to a convincing win by domination. Have attached my histograph.

Have broken the back of all resistance - now command the skies (fighters & bombers), seas (battleships, destroyers, subs, transports) and land (tanks & infantry). That's why they call me the Captain.

I've really enjoyed this game, I think the GOTM is a great idea. I never would have played the english or the island game of my own accord - but being in this comp and having it chosen for us has pushed me out of my comfort zone, it's been good.

Will spend the next couple of nights mopping up and boosting score a bit. Emperor level is perfect too, it's hard enough to be really challenging but not so hard that your strategies verge on the ridiculous through lack of options.

I think to be a good civ player (aside from understanding the technical aspects of the game) the most important quality is to be able to balance short term, medium term and long term objectives in an intelligent and adaptive way. What do you other civ fanatics think?

 

[Captain Sexual]

Marshalljames says

"In order to win this game you have to eliminate the french right away.And the only way you can know that is by reloading.If you do not stay in a constant war/peace with them and take their advances in treaties you'l get so far behind it's not funny.
I may even go further to say that anyone who submits a winning score cheated. "

This is crap. I didn't reload and I killed the French. Found them very early with my scout, made the decision that same turn that they had to be eliminated - scouted their area whilst building up swordsmen to the chokepoint (btw they traded me iron working, fools), and killed them. Well not killed them, they had established one city on another island but wiped them off my continent - for all intents and purposes they were destroyed.

Anyways, had a great session last night. Pounded the Aztecs into submission. I'm well on the way to a convincing win by domination.

Have broken the back of all resistance - now command the skies (fighters & bombers), seas (battleships, destroyers, subs, transports) and land (tanks & infantry). That's why they call me the Captain.

I've really enjoyed this game, I think the GOTM is a great idea. I never would have played the english or the island game of my own accord - but being in this comp and having it chosen for us has pushed me out of my comfort zone, it's been good.

Will spend the next couple of nights mopping up the Zulus and boosting score a bit.

I’ve used trade, espionage and resource management a lot in this game – cool features of civ 3.

Emperor level is perfect too, it's hard enough to be really challenging but not so hard that your strategies verge on the ridiculous through lack of options.

I think to be a good civ player (aside from understanding the technical aspects of the game) the most important quality is to be able to balance short term, medium term and long term objectives in an intelligent and adaptive way. What do you other civ fanatics think?

 

[BillChin]

MarshallJames, I have a suggestion for you. After you are done with your official GOTM submission, please read my post, Tips for Emperor Difficulty, which I posted before downloading the February GOTM. Please pay close attention to strategy #3, Swordsmen Conquest. For fun and learning, restart the Feb GOTM and try that strategy. It is a perfect fit for this map. See how you do and report back.

For those who missed my post, I'll repeat the Swordsmen Conquest strategy here:
Research Bronze then Iron. Build two cities very close to the capital, one square away on the diagonal, or two away on the straight. Build the first two settlers before a temple or a granary. With the third or fourth settler claim iron. Build 10+ swordsmen or upgrade warriors. Attack and crush the enemy and claim all their land. Best civs for this are Persians or Romans because they have unique swordsmen units (Immortals, Legionaires).

I favor the Horsemen conquest strategy and use it all the time on Emperor difficulty, random civ, standard size map, random type map, default barbs. It has gotten me out of far worse starting positions than the February GOTM.

Originally posted by marshalljames
In order to win this game you have to eliminate the french right away.And the only way you can know that is by reloading.If you do not stay in a constant war/peace with them and take their advances in treaties you'l get so far behind it's not funny.
I may even go further to say that anyone who submits a winning score cheated.

Marshalljames

 

[Smash]

I had no problems with the French either.I had the island to my self by 300 bc.If I was reloading,I wouldn't have had to spend $30 on a new mouse that got smashed when 3 swordsmen lost to a spearman

 

[Trash]

I think Marshalljames get the point by now.
This is the first time i've played emperor, I've played twice on monarch & once on regent and the rest i played on cheiftan in Civ1 about 8-9 years ago.

It's definately no where near impossible to beat the french earlish without reloading. No where near as quick as people beat the Japanese in the last GOTM. (And yeah it did seem a bit dodgy with all the people attacking with 2 warriors and no-one failing, by the time i got around to wiping them out they had about 6 cities, which suited me fine cause that was 6 cities for me ), but i cleaned up the French about 300AD, they were never that much of a threat to me, especially with the choke point meaning that you only had a very small front to fight on, and them not having iron didn't help their cause either. I beat them in about a 300 year war with about a dozen horseman and 4-5 archers. I took about 7-8 casualities with half of them being the archers. I got a Great Leader.

I personally found the Zulus to be alot harder than the french with their impis for defense and swordsman *trying* hehe to counter attack my spearman.

The only things that have really troubled me on the step up to emperor is the unhappiness (and that because i forgot about military police) and the bonus the AI has in the early stages (the french had 3 new techs by the time i researched my first). Although i'm sure the advantage they have is lessen alot by the island style map. I'd hate to see 8 AI civs working together

 

[Arizona_Steve]

Had a go at the game last night - I normally play on warlord level and didn't expect to get very far. And I was right. The French declared war as soon as they found the Iron that I was linking up to my empire and that was that. Didn't have any time to get any swordsmen and my city that I'd placed in the chokepoint to deny the French access to the rest of the island was obliterated by a massive horseman rush. I knew it was all over then. UGH!!

Might try again tonight, accepting that this is no longer a valid entry for the GOTM.

Stephen.

 

[damunzy]

Originally posted by marshalljames
In order to win this game you have to eliminate the french right away.And the only way you can know that is by reloading.If you do not stay in a constant war/peace with them and take their advances in treaties you'l get so far behind it's not funny.
I may even go further to say that anyone who submits a winning score cheated.
Marshalljames

Quit your trolling. I was having a decent game until I made the mistake of trying to kill the French off without building up a good sized force first. The French came down on me like a hammer hitting my big toe. It still hurts. I normally build up troops first, I don't know what I was thinking.....GotM games....I always do bad in them. I was also going to do the building close strategy but for some reason I didn't, another problem with my strategy this time around. I am going to finish this game but I feel I will lose before 0 as London is pretty banged up with 10+ Archers, Spearmen, and Warriors on the way. Damn French, WhoTF picked the English? Sheesh!
I happened to find the French early with my scout after scouting out the south completely. I decided to build a city on the choke point and also had a spearman defending until I flubbed up and attacked the French. So here is another person that, if he didn't mess up and attack too soon, could have defeated the French, although later than the others. I have just recently gotten up to Regent!

 

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Arizona_Steve
Didn't have any time to get any swordsmen and my city that I'd placed in the chokepoint to deny the French access to the rest of the island was obliterated by a massive horseman rush. I knew it was all over then. UGH!!

The AI seems to know when it is cut off from expanding by a city. If you use a unit to block off the choke point, they don't seem to realize that they have to go to war to get past you. They will just wait for you to move the unit in most cases. Try just fortifying your scout or an early warrior on the isthmus. A scout works best, as even if they build a city near, it won't have to be withdrawn for quite some time (20-40 turns at least). That will allow you to build your cities in a better food area anyways. This should help you expand a bit faster. The AI is less likely to attack if your number of cities/units is on par with theirs.

I had moved my settler to the coast to build London, as I figured the Lighthouse would be very important from the map settings. Then I built my first 2 cities north and one to the west, each 1 diagonal tile from the other. This made it so that the settler could build it's city just 1 turn after being built, and start pumping out settlers themselves. All an early city needs is 2 grassland tiles to serve its purpose. Later on I disbanded and moved the 'inbetween' cities to better locations, as they had only been used for pop rushing horsemen anyways.

 

[BillChin]

Steve, if you did not have time to get any swordsmen and the French had a mass of horsemen, the problem is your building speed. For your replay, I suggest the following: build the first two settlers before a temple or a granary or any workers. The build queue is something like 3 warriors then settler. Plant them very close to the capital. This technique provides for a very fast build out. Have the worker connect all cities with roads to share the luxury. Only after you have these two production cities in place, think about a city at the choke point or at the iron.

For those reading along that have already lost, this is an excellent map to practice some Emperor level starting strategies. Again, for a replay, I suggest that someone read my Tips for Emperor Difficulty and try a variant of Swordsmen Conquest or Horsemen Conquest. I suggest going through and defeating the French, to see how you can do it with a good starting plan.

I rate the Feb GOTM as an average map for Emperor level. I've seen a lot worse. Imagine a similar map and starting position, but instead of wheat you have jungle. Instead of the French, you get Romans WITH IRON and Legionnaires. Instead of having all the enemies separated, they are all trading techs and have five more techs than you when you meet them. (Shudder)

Originally posted by Arizona_Steve
Had a go at the game last night - I normally play on warlord level and didn't expect to get very far. And I was right. The French declared war as soon as they found the Iron that I was linking up to my empire and that was that. Didn't have any time to get any swordsmen and my city that I'd placed in the chokepoint to deny the French access to the rest of the island was obliterated by a massive horseman rush. I knew it was all over then. UGH!!

Might try again tonight, accepting that this is no longer a valid entry for the GOTM.

Stephen.

 

[seghillian]

Originally posted by Aeson


Try just fortifying your scout or an early warrior on the isthmus. A scout works best

Well that was the strategy I adopted and the scout worked well. I got the tip from elsewhere in these forums when someone suggested using a scout to deny a resource.

So the French were gradually eliminated circa 300ad and now I've got my first foothold on the main Zulu island. I chose to grab the city that has both iron and horses so he can't throw anything too nasty at me (I hope). I sued for peace and he paid quite handsomely for the rest although I'd have accepted much less. So I'll build one or two more galleys, horses and swords and ship them over to finish the Zulus soon.

To be honest though I'm not enjoying it much. The combat is a slow slog, shipping units 2 by 2 in galleys is a tedious (and dangerous) business and I feel I must be losing out heavily to the other 3 or 4 civs (can't recall how many offhand) in the game. I've not had any reports about them building wonders for a while so I'm just hoping they're all kicking hell out of each other somewhere but I suspect they're building up huge empires while I'm churning out horses, galleys and swords.

The trouble is that I don't think I can stop the conquest path. Emperor AI can build much faster than me so unless I go after the AI relentlessly, it will always be getting stronger than me. Am I right in this assumption?

Ah well, those Zulus and me have been at peace for long enough now - let's go and sort out those Impies.

 

[flexo]

the tactic is to just rush the french. I sent my scout north and found them in a couple of turns. I quickly created about 10 warriors and rushed them. That worked like a charm. Frenchy on the run. Unfortunatly he reappeared two times after I had first disaptched him.

[edit my tactics here]
That is not really what I did at all. I scouted it out. Put the scout in the area where the french couldn't move past me down to my cites. Created two more cites (three in total) then I rush produced my warriors and attacked.



So it was not until 10 ad that I had purged and claimed the first island as my own.

Unfortunalty it has gone all down hill from there ... The Zulus found me and I went to war with them. They are now history. So are the Aztech which where the third nation I found.

Unfortunatly it took me forever to find the indians and persians (they found me). Which means they have a horribly large tech advantage.

I have been at war with the persians on and off since I found them.

Currently it is 1960 I control most of the land. The Persians have their start island and one small one. The Indians have the same. I controll the rest of the world. Unfortunatly this is not enough for a domination victory (I really hope domination wasn't turned off cause then I missed that, can you tell how close you are to a domination victory somewhere in the game ?)

I currently lead in Culture by some 6 points. Only cause I have lots of land. I have basically no culture what so ever. I managed to sqeeze in the Great Wall that is all. I have not built any minor wonders either. The start core cities where corruption isn't a killer are the only built up cities. The others just get a temple, sometimes a barrack and/or a granary.

I run a hard despotic game. Could be why I have no culture to talk of. I pump out troops as fast as I can. But travell by sea has now become very hasardous.

Why ? Cause I'm such a technological looser. The others are waaaaay ahead of me. I have infantry and artillery. Big deal when they (persia) are currently building the united nations. So they are about 3/4 ahead of me tech wise. So they have subs and destroyers while I have ironclads ... whoohoo .. but a good tactic is lureing them towards land. Blasting them with artillery until they are in the red and hope for the best.

They have not started to use tanks yet. I assume that is cause they don't have the raw material for it. I have lots and lots of everything. But crushing infantry is hard enough as it is. I use mainly cavalry to do the fighting. Heck they are my best fighting unit so it is not like I have alot of choice. Sure they infantry have the same attack stat but they cost more and I don't do much defending. It is just Attack attack and attack.

Unforuntalty the game have started to crash every two or three turns. I have the latest patch and all. Judging from the dumps it crashes when it is supposed to change the music. It is really annoying.

The score is currently about ~ 2600.

But I must say I like this game better than the others. The maps should be big simply cause we have a month to play the game.

 

[SanPellegrino]

"I currently lead in Culture by some 6 points. "

How do you know? I only use the histograph screen with the ugly graphic scale, haven't seen absolute numbers.

 

[Breddan]

I've just finished the game by a conquest victory in 1822AD. This was the first time playing above Regent for me, and I suprised myself on how well I did.

Removing the French is necessary, because you need their territory for production, etc. The French built the Great Library, which I captured, then using the GL I got to rush the Lighthouse. The French were gone by 170 or 190AD, then I invaded the Zulus immediately after, taking their 3 western cities in 1 turn (helped by a ROP), and mopping up their continent took a few more turns. The impis really were not able to defend against 2 dozen or so swordsmen with a few horsemen to mop up the injured. They survived with a few cities on islands, until they though it would be fun to *try* to kick my butt. The Indians also thought that they could beat me when I was busy with the Zulus, but as I just had knights, a mere 8 knights landed on their continent was enough to raze 2 cities, and take Bombay and Delhi (Copernicus and Colossus in those). Taking the Indians out after that was easy, just some island hopping to clear the last few cities. With another Gl, I rushed the Sistine in London.

It seems that although I was equal to anyone in military power, the Aztecs declared war on me. Unfortunately for them, I had just got Military Tradition, and upgraded my 30ish knights to calvary. With an alliance with the Persians, the aztecs died quickly; I kept 3 cities and got another GL, used to rush J.S. Bach's in Paris.

After that, with 50+ calvary sitting around, I built several galleons and invaded Persia (with an ROP too ). Razing their capital and 2 other cities in the first turn, then with reinforcements, I just razed their entire island, then used the galleons to wipe out cities on various islands, finishing the game. I also got another GL in the middle of this, rushing Theory of Evolution (useless, I know, but what really could I have done with it?)

A few points:
I should have rushed the FP in Paris, because it took me 90 turns to build it, wasting a lot of production time from corruption.
Taking out the Persians earlier would have been better, they had riflemen when I invaded, giving my calvary a headache (up to 8 calvary required to kill 2 defenders).
Since I was going conquest, using a GL for an army and the Heroic and such, I figured there wasn't much time since happiness wonders are almost necessary.
With the Indian, Aztec, and Zulu islands, you can get 7 luxuries, very useful. I traded the Persians 5 of those for dyes, then when I went to war with them, most of their cities fell into disorder because of the sudden lack of luxuries.

I want to say that English's abilities are quite worthless, expansionism on an island map? worthless. And never did I build a man-o-war. I'm very used to playing as the Egyptians, religious and industrious seem awesome, especially after playing this game.

I may have forgotten something .

 

[Breddan]

Just a little "tip"

By creating your capital immediately, then sending the worker to the wheat square, and setting the scout on automatic, the hut gives you Bronze Working.

I don't condone reading this post, then playing the game, using that method to get the tech; this is just for informative purposes.

 

[BillChin]

I finished up my February game in 1956 with a Domination victory.

Here is my story:
I think I am alone on the island at the beginning and think about Monarchy. This is a head fake. I build two cities very close, then one up at the choke point. Then I expand to the West, but the barbs are pretty fierce. Once I see the French, I forget about Monarchy, and go for Iron Working, and Horseback Riding.

I build a lot of cities, sixteen, before attacking the French. I claim both iron deposits on the southern islands, so I have three iron. For my offensive, I have a mix of about 10 swordsmen and 10 horsemen at the chokepoint. It is very late, like 350 A.D. and I wonder what the other civs are up to. Not a lot of wonders being built so it can't be that bad. In most games, I try to launch the Horsemen war around 1 A. D. Peace is not a good option with this map because I have only one luxury and little land.

The French without iron are no match. The outcome of the war is never in doubt. Their culture is strong so I have to raze several cities. I get the Great Lighthouse and Great Library from them, and a great leader. I use the leader to rush the Forbidden Palace in a newly settled city just south of Paris. The French are still alive with a couple of island cities.

I have a lucky ocean crossing galley that finds India and most of the rest of the world except Persia. Two other galleys were not so lucky.

In 910 A. D. I invade the Aztecs, thinking it will be easier than the Indians. My decision become irrelevant because India attacks me three turns later. The two civs are pretty weak, especially for Emperor difficulty. I claim a few cities then make peace.

A turn after the peace treaty is signed with India, I complete the Sistine Chapel and get a golden age in 1345. The garrisons in India get drunk during the celebration and leave their stations. The old India capital flips and the men can not stand it. With all the cities emptied, the troops rampage and raze city after city. The India culture is so strong there is no way to keep their cities. By 1485 India is destroyed.

I wanted the Zulus as allies and it worked for a while. During the on and off war with India I must have done something like sign a peace treaty before 20 turns, because the Zulus are furious. They used to be polite.

I plan to ally with the Persians to crush the Zulu. I sign a MPP with the Persians. They backstab me! Attacking the turn after the protection pact treaty is signed. Bastards! All hell breaks lose as the Zulus, remaining Aztecs and French all declare war on me. They can not make much headway, but I am miserable. If I had nukes at this point I am angry enough to use them. I am in Democracy. There are peace protests in every city. Research and production approach zero.

I have to switch governments (1680) to Republic. I have a second leader saved and use him for Universal Suffrage. I make peace with Persia, paying them off with Industrialization. Two turns later, I demand they leave my land, and they declare war again! Bastards! A lasting peace is forged in 1756, with little change in borders or score.

In 1812, the Zulu are hell bent for war. I see their troops approaching and try to convince them to stay peaceful, but no good. War breaks out and the peace protesters take to the streets again. This despite the Zulus attacking me, a Republic, and Universal Suffrage. During this second world war, the Persians ally with me. I lay siege to the Zulu island as they have infantry. It is 1918 before I storm the Zulu capital with tanks, over 50 turns of war.

I plot my revenge against those lying, cheating Persians. I build an Aircraft carrier, some bombers, and many tanks. I have a third leader, and use him for a tank army. Just when my invasion starts to steam roll, I get the domination victory in 1956.

 

[Ricco]

This is the second GOTM I tried. Last month I forgot to save at 1AD, so I didn't send in. This month I forgot it again Well I just try to sent it in as I got nowhere near a winning score anyhow.
On to my game. I moved the settler to the right to the middle of the 3 forest tiles and began building two scouts. Started research on writing because I wanted to get Mapmaking quickly. My first scout went to the South, getting a warrior from the hut and finding some suitable land to settle. Then my other scouts met the French. They were way ahead of me in tech so I decided to research Literature after mapmaking and go for the Great Library hoping to catch up. I did get Bronze Working and later Ceremonial burial from them in exchange for pottery, writing and some gold. I put one scout on the choke point and some turns later built my first city there. Here I just built a spearman, rushed barracks and continued producing spearman, hoping they could stop the French. Second city I built to the North of London so I covered that part of the island. Then 3 cities on the Sout part of the continent and a 4th just North of these 3. At the same time London started Colossus and switched to GL after discovering Literature. I then just had to build one more city to the west of London in the desert to cut the French of from settling in my part of the island. Built it just before the French. They dropped a settler from a galley next to my settler. Put a warrior and a spearman next to it and used my scouts to occupy a few spots that were not yet in my culture.
The French never got agressive towards my although they were way ahead in tech and troops. Could this be because of their settler that was inside my territory surrounded by my troops? Maybe it was my 8 cities towards their 7 on the island, but they had some cities on the small islands to the South and West.
Next I finished the GL in London and was shortly after Mapmaking. Send galleys to the East and South were I could see some land. The ones to the South only discovered French cities before getting lost, but to the East I found the Zulu. This got me a lot of tech like the Wheel, Horseback, Iron Working etc. so I could now start planning for the conquest of the island. I started building Horseman in all my cities until I got about 20. This was enough to kick the French out even with 4 cities flipping back to them that I had to conquer again. This got me the Pyramids, Lighthouse and Great Wall as well as a Great Leader. The GL I used to rush the Forbidden Palace in Paris after their capital moved to a far away island.
After this I started developing my cities, switched to republic, made contact with the other civs, build Sistine in Paris and Sun Tzu's in London. Sistine's got me a Golden Age which made me fly through the Middle Age techs and wonders. I thought Sistine's only triggered GA for religious civs, but I was happy with the moment.
Then the Zulu's drop 1 !! Impi on my coast. I ask it kindly to leave and they declare war. I kill the Impi and get another Great Leader from it. I drop some Knights on their coasts research Military Tradition and start building Cavalry. Then Paris flips back to the French. I take it back the same turn, but have to use my GL to rebuild the Forbidden Palace. This changed my target from the Zulu to the island cities of the French. I wiped them of the face of the planet, getting my third Great Leader of the game. Never got so many playing a non-military civ. Used this one for Hoover Dam. I stop making war and get everything in research to build a spaceship. I'm about 5 techs ahead so that was no problem and I finish the game in 1932 still occupying just the starting island.

 

[donsig]

Elizabeth of England

4000bc - 1530ad

RIP

All her base are belong to them!