Originally posted by nodog
1. I am, infact, sorry you don't like the game. I wish everybody liked everything and walked around happy as hell. Truly.
But, my friend, I can guarantee you that there a lot of people who do like this game. There are a lot of people who love this game. There are a lot of people who think that this is the greatest computer game of all time.
Exactly and on the flip side of your emagined reality there are also a great number of people (world-wide) who can't stand the new concepts that were incorporated since Civ2. And in fact many game concepts were taken out of Civ2 many things in which people actually enjoyed. But that only fuels the growing list of complaints throughout the entire Civilization community world-wide. Why should your reasons be the right ones?
Always remember that complainers squeak the loudest and the vast majority of players are quietlly enjoying themselves. Read the reviews, check out the sales. It's a hit.
Myself, I've played this since I got it like some kind of cd-based crack. I played the original many, many years ago and got addicted, then the sequel, now this triumph. Amazing series.
I disagree. If one is gullible enough to "trust" a review written by paid game sites and over-optimistic push overs then you really have no bearings on what is real and what isn't. That sounds like "Oh.. well it was on TV so it must be right" kind of crap. And until everyone agrees with you its far from being a hit.
The point that you are missing is that these are GAMES they cannot possibly be a completely accurate model of reality. They have the flavor of reality, the feel of history, they are not actually history.
I am sure you are right. I wasn't arguing "reality" I accidentally came into this thread thinking that it was based on "what I felt was wrong with Civ3". Obviously I made a mistake. And I didn't realise the irony and humor until lately apointed. However, Civilization was a game for thought and fictional-reality based on historical and present day life. That's why it attracted so many consumers of the adult variety. People were appealed to it's splendor of realism based on "what it would be like in real life to be king". And when you deduct from that concept of logic, it peels away the basic concept of it's appeal. In other words the game begins to attract the "easily amused" or the more youthfull audience "kids". And who said Civilization wasn't meant to be realistic? I played it because it was! And so do many others.
3. I am not intimating that Sid knows more about history than anyone else. That's my point. You could argue that no one knows more about GAME DESIGN than Sid. That's why others write textbooks and teach courses in ancient civiliazations and Sid makes freakin' games!
Still there is no excuse for not perfecting a product based on popular demand. Sid knows so much and is (in your opinion) the best game designer around, granted that is *only* your opinion. But the fact is whether you accept this or not, he did have little or nothing to do with the overall design of Civilization 3. And even if he did Civilization 3 is a big let down to many fans, not all. No one can change that.
4. Certainly input from consumers is a valuable part of producing a game. That said, if you are under the illusion that your ideas would carte blanche improve the game and that Sid is a moron for not listening to you, then you are suffering some fairly large illusions. Most of the suggestions I've read on this subject would break the game.
Well I'm not a judge of what can be coded and what can't. Or what suggestions will make or break a game concept. Thats up to the design team and the brains behind the product. But when it comes to programming software nothing is impossible, only improbable or complicated. And in the words of history, do the difficult if you want to ascend. There is no excuse for thousands of upset fans other than the product was exagerated before sale, and was nowhere near what they expected. Haven't you ever been let down by something you had a passion for?
I'm not talking about whether the elephants should have higher this or lower that, although the balance of the unique units is veryimportant and to much fiddling would throw it out of whack.
But some of the larger "realism" suggestions would ruin it. Particularly the idea that the newer unit would always win.
It would only ruin it for you, because thats your opinion not a design fact. Some people are easily amused and like shoot-em up war games with cartoon graphics. I'm not for that category, and many others agree. And as long as they are multiple types of game lovers out there, a game should be designed open ended with on/off features so that a much wider scope of people can enjoy it, not just the easily amused! Realism improves a game, it doesn't harm it. The games are becoming more realistic every year, and game corporations are making billions because of it.
5. The part that some of you are missing is that this entire thread was soaked in irony. IT IS A GAME. It is going to be unrealistic on all sides. THe idea that a queen in chess is more powerful than a king, ludicrous. The idea that their is ammunition lying all over the place in half-life, shameful. The idea that a dog could own Park Place, or a top hat Marvin Gardens, premiere Atlantic City real estate, insufferable.
There is no such thing as a completely accurate game. Zero. They are games. They give us a taste of a setting and we manipulate it for our enjoyment. If you are not enjoying it, move on. Get your money back and try another.
I realize that every game is meant for fictional pleasure not virtual stimuleous, although some games for VR are meant to do that now. But your missing the point, not I. I'm saying that I like many others enjoy a realistic strategy game. Civilization II - Gold allowed us to manipulate it to the point that each individual consumer was satisfied by the type of scenario that he or she could invent. With Civilization III all those abilities were robbed of that. Now you have "animation" and "pre-cemented gameplay concepts" that cannot be altered even with the provided editor. In other words there isn't a whole lot of room for emagination, your stuck with little warriors running around grunting war cries, and un-realistic AI behaviour. Not to mention the thousands of other problems with the game. You can choose to ignore all of this, but it doesn't make them disappear! Only the individual can decide for him/her self whether the game is worthy or not. You're saying that these people have no reason to complain simply because *you* enjoy it, well who are you? someone we should take notice of? You cannot deny people their right to speak opinion, even if it is a negative one.
But I have a feeling that most of these complaint threads are written by chronic complainers. People that enjoy picking apart.
Now you're starting to sound like a "complainer of complainers"
or perhaps a "fan-boy" whom is overly insecure about Civilization III recieving criticism. Does it hurt you to read criticism? If so you have delusions to deal with. People have a right to "hate" something, it's called preference. If you don't like it, don't read it!
'Cause lets face it...
I have played a ton of games this year and many if not most were nearly unplayable, some ridiculously bug-ridden, some simply not engaging but none as good as this game. And if you think this is a poorly made game, I can't help you. There is crapp out there, lots of it. This ain't it.
Again, only your opinion. And I'm affraid your opinion still isn't strong enough to change the fact that Civ3 was a disapointment to many many people. It must be hard to be you.
Did you even pay for your copy of Civilization 3? Do you care much about the things you finance in life, or the areas of entertainment you contributed your money to last month? Because it sounds like you have a hole in your pocket, and a selfish attitude. People care about this game, and have devoted (as fans) many years to "Civilization" and "Sid Meier". You don't think these people have a right to complain when they get let down? Believe me, when people spend money on something whether you care or not, it matters!
