civ 3 players will not move on

[The End Is Nigh]

I see no reason why one should move on to Civ IV. There is no much difference from Civ III really. They have just added stuff to the original concepts of the game. They could have gone a long way in expanding and updating the game, but they didn't. And what is missing from Civ IV - for people like me at least who don't know or just can't be bothered to learn editing XML and Python - is the user-friendly editor you had with Civ III.

 

[Henrik]

There are still people playing civ 2. People are conservative. I personally never played civ 3 more than a little as it was (for me) such a step down from civ2, I kept playing civ 2 untill civ 4 came out.
Now I play civ 4. perhaps he needs there to be another generation shift and won't be able to move on untill civ 5

The main problem basicly was that civ 3 didn't add anything really to the series. It just took civ 1 and 2 and threw away some stuff and added some minor things that went along with the stuff already there and then released a new game (with a lot less modability and no multiplayer initially even).

Civ 4 has been a major remake of the series and plays partly like a new game. This will put some people off and others will like it. Civ 5 will probably be a more conservative change (like civ 3 was in it's day).

 

[CyberChrist]

I see no reason why one should move on to Civ IV. There is no much difference from Civ III really. They have just added stuff to the original concepts of the game. They could have gone a long way in expanding and updating the game, but they didn't.

Eh? Religions/Corporations, Vassals, Health, Unit Promotions, Events, Civics, Great People (they not just added more - they work a lot differently from those in Civ III also) and real 3D graphics (pretty much useless of course, but still different) just to mention some of the new/expanded/different concepts in cIV. What exactly would you consider to be sufficiently different to the concept, if none of those I mentioned count as being such in your opinion?

 

[CyberChrist]

The main problem basicly was that civ 3 didn't add anything really to the series.

(Heh, now I find myself defending Civ III)

Eh? Proper Resources and Luxuries, Cultural Borders, Modifiable Governments, Modifiable Building/Wonder effects, Experience levels for units, Proper Leaders (and Traits), Civilization Unique Units, Unit Generating Buildings and Proper Ranged Combat to name those I can recall.

I'll grant you that the loss of scripts and extra map layers from ToT was a step backwards though.

 

[gps]

OK Where do I state I felt Civ was on the same level as Gigamesh, the story that some say the freaken bible is based on? You put words in others mouthes mybe cuz you can't retort what their really stating? ..and look your laughing again...thats creepy! don't you see?

That’s your posting, isn’t it?

Bottom line:
Its my belief that the improvment of historical epics is made possable through vast vats of user-created resources. Further more, A Great Modding secter is representive of many multitudes of era specific and culturaly diverse jouneys that stand the test of time.

That statement directly following your appraisal of the Civ III midding advantages - clearly states that you consider Civ III a “historic epic”, doesn’t it???

'Hey its only a stupid game in the big picture' arguement can be used on every arguement/debate...on the losing side.

I am on the loosing side? Am I missing something here? I have the Civ game I like to play. 100% satisfaction. YOU’re the on who’s whining and complaining and grumbling all the time. So who’s here on the losing side??? No need to say anything else.

 

[Mr_Fusty]

I've been reading this lot with interest, because although I bought Civ IV last year, I really can't get into it. I feel a bit guilty about that, as I played III, II & I to death. I even gave CTP & CTP II a fair try. Athough Civ IV added some new ideas which should be developed further (like religion), it seems to have embraced the idea that graphics are everything.

Perhaps the best test of Civ IV is to see how much it has replaced it's predessor. Back in 2003 (when the ages of Civ II and Civ III are comparible to the ages of Civ III & Civ IV) Civ II was fading away, as the majority of gamers upgraded to III (Hardcore II fans don't shoot!) Today, the Civ III community is still very healthy, which may be a sign that perhaps I'm not alone in my feelings regarding IV.

The continuing vibrancy of the Civ III society may also be a sign of the quality of the game. As a quite hardcore gamer with over a decade experiance with PC games, I can say that III is possibly the most stable (doesn't crash, etc) game I have ever played, and is joint first in length of large community support (the other is The Sims)

With the comment about having to learn XML and Python, it's the way of the world. It is stupid, however not to have a dedicated editor for IV. It is often the first port of call for new scenario creation.

For me, I'm willing to give IV another year or so. If I still can't get into it by then, i'll put it aside and wait for Civ V. It will proberly be around in '09, I hope.

 

[kibbles]

I have a friend who got me interested in civ by giving me civ 3, when civ 4 came out I bought it and he did not. It has now been almost 3 years since civ 4 came out and he still has not bought it and keeps on saying, Its not good, civ 3 is better, I'm not used to the graphics, stuff like that. He has a new computer too. Do any of you have friends like that, What should I say to try to convince him to buy it.

Ya actually i do! My Friend has an excellent computer. And he doesn't get ANY new games. He downloads a demo once in a while. but other than that NOTHING.

 

[Soneji]

I cannot be bothered going into it in depth like some here have, however I played Civ I / II for years. They probably had an impact on how well I done school tbh.

My friend bought Civ III when it came out, and I just did not get into it. Kept playing Civ II.

When I saw Civ IV start up for the first time I was absolutely jaw dropping amazed. Just the change to the interface, individual units, everything else new that came along.

What impressed me the most was being able to zoom out to ‘space’ and watch the clouds float over the ‘world’. I remember uttering the words 'cool'.

It was a step in the right direction for my personal Civ’ing.

 

[jessiecat]

That’s your posting, isn’t it?



That statement directly following your appraisal of the Civ III midding advantages - clearly states that you consider Civ III a “historic epic”, doesn’t it???



I am on the loosing side? Am I missing something here? I have the Civ game I like to play. 100% satisfaction. YOU’re the on who’s whining and complaining and grumbling all the time. So who’s here on the losing side??? No need to say anything else.

Still trying to figure out where I stand in this argument but one thing's for
sure, the biggest Epic of all is this thread. When will people just get on with
the game and play whatever version you like? Some claim that I've not "moved on"
by prefering to play Civ 3 over Civ 4. But despite six months
of Civ 4 I've returned to Civ 3 , so I've "moved back", haven't I? Why does
the direction you "move" matter? If someone thinks Civ4 is better than Civ3,
Who cares? If someone thinks Civ 3 is "obsolete", Who cares?
If someone thinks newer is always better than older, Who cares?
These are nothing but opinions. Live with it!

Finally, and this is bound to upset some of you aficionados who post regularly
in this thread, just how many players care about these arguments anyway?
Just how tiny is this group that even want to mod their games, tweak their own graphics,
design their own maps or chat endlessly in these forums? Very, very small, I'll wager!
I'm convinced the vast majority of players just buy a game to play it and enjoy it.
And if they get some useful tactical advice in these forums which help them play the game
that much better, that's a great bonus!

I don't know why I keep snooping back on this thread anyway. Maybe it's
a morbid fascination in watching some of you trying to score cheap debating
points off each other either way, regardless of your argument. Whatever it
is, I'm gone. I've "moved on", back to Civ 3 and back to the Civ 3 forums
sometimes. Maybe the're not so obsessed with endlessly debating what's
better. Maybe I'll get some tips for my game too. Who knows?

 

[gps]

Although apreciating your comments, I have to disagree at two points:

As a quite hardcore gamer with over a decade experiance with PC games, I can say that III is possibly the most stable (doesn't crash, etc) game I have ever played,

Sadly especially C3C DOES crash now and then on my config. I surely have games that are more stable.

With the comment about having to learn XML and Python, it's the way of the world. It is stupid, however not to have a dedicated editor for IV. It is often the first port of call for new scenario creation.

I'd call the built in Worldbuilder rather dedicated. OK, it does not give you the possibilites of customizing units or techs, as you have in the Civ III (ponit&click and you have a different unit) but you can create basic scenarios. I agree about the lack of 3d unit editors and stuff like that - maybe some clever fans will come up with selfmade tools in the future, I've seen it happen for other games.
But on the other hand I have to say: first priority for me is a great basic game. Moddability is an important factor, but it would go too far for me to limit the game itself just to make it easier to mod and customize. And you should not forget, that XML and Python give you a power over all game mechanics, you never had with static editors plus hardcoded and basically unchangeable game mechanics as in Civ III. So Civ IV might be harder to mod, but the possibilites and final results might also far exceed what was possible for Civ III.

 

[gps]

I don't know why I keep snooping back on this thread anyway.

I don't know if you're adressing me in particularly, but if you read through my posts open-eyed, you will see, that basically we share the same opinion and all I am saying is: Civ III and Civ IV both are great games (=fun, play, entertainment, relaxation), take it easy and enjoy them as you like. If you don't enjoy them, then let it be. And I have defended Civ III and Civ IV alike against attacks by some characters that I feel a little bit over the top, unfitting or unfair.
Apart from beeing pointless those bickerings are kind of weirdly entertaining. That's my only reason to return here...

 

[jessiecat]

I don't know if you're adressing me in particularly, but if you read through my posts open-eyed, you will see, that basically we share the same opinion and all I am saying is: Civ III and Civ IV both are great games (=fun, play, entertainment, relaxation), take it easy and enjoy them as you like. If you don't enjoy them, then let it be. And I have defended Civ III and Civ IV alike against attacks by some characters that I feel a little bit over the top, unfitting or unfair.
Apart from beeing pointless those bickerings are kind of weirdly entertaining. That's my only reason to return here...

Thanks for that. It definitely wasn't aimed at you. In fact, the opposite!
I'm sure we're both thinking of the same person/people.

 

[T.A JONES]

That’s your posting, isn’t it?

Sure but so was the one you omitted clearly explaining what an epic consitutes civ terms. (Why would I be talking about Movie 'epics' or novel 'epics' )
I guess when you can't refute facts you pretend your unfamiliar with the term in use.
Even when you such a fan you commit half your 80 posts to comments on a CIv4 Vs Civ3 thread! But back to the point, Was I to presumtious to think people knew what a civ epic was? Mybe, thats why I clarified this for you:

AN epic is what in civ we call from 'dawn to the pinnacle'. IN civ3 the resources are so vast it can be broken down into 'ages' for greater historical context
I gave you examples of two mods that play up from caveman to Anno Domini then up to Middle age and pre industrial using over 200 techs inbetween. IN turn these techs spawn hundreds of cultrally specific types of information represented with higher rendering then original civ3 graphics.

I said everything that went in to these "epics' in regard to units, leaders and new concept have been created by users to refect historical simularitys during the specified time. Every pedia entry is complete.

I see you based your comment on my 'bottom line' statement but somehow conviently you forgot to accompany where I contrived my reasoning just above that statement.

That statement directly following your appraisal of the Civ III midding advantages - clearly states that you consider Civ III a “historic epic”, doesn’t it???

SO yes I do. What first triggered your long laughing attack was my simple remark regarding 'civ per say' was based on history not mystical creatures and magic spells True? So you had the context I was reffering to even then. Further down I pointed out that as a metter of opinon I prefferd Civ3's model for this reason. That being the refinement and expansion into this area through its vast outnumbering user created content (in comparison to Civ4)

Heres where you state your opionion on what I called the lack of refinement/ improvment of the historic epic in direct comparison to civ3's modding sector

I prefer a handfull of good mods that really mod the game into something different (FFH, Final Frontier!) over thousands of Civ III Clones with preset map and three new units. But yeah, I forgot: it does not look or smell like Civ III, so it must be rubbish

In contrast to our opposing veiws I summerize that if preferring a game with enchanced historical content makes me a true civfanatic in you eyes then yes Im indeed what you label me as.

I am on the loosing side? Am I missing something here? I have the Civ game I like to play. 100% satisfaction. .

Again IM sorry but your talking out you ass. I said your devation from the topic to unrelated areas in order to avoid my points back with evidence, aswell as complete refutation on the basis of your arguements, parleys a conceding position.

You let my points go unchalleged yet have your accusations disproven IN THIS INSTANCE. WHere does it say you lost in life for choosing civ4(though you say you play both I thought? ? You came to knock a game many like to play in thread to be set up that way. You switched to attempts of knocking me for my choices and the beliefs that substaniate them.

YOU’re the on who’s whining and complaining and grumbling all the time. So who’s here on the losing side??? No need to say anything else

OK let me get this right . You got 80 posts and atleat half are made right here in a bash civ3 thread. Ive entered responses that defend my reasons for playing the game. (in fair debate with other of the same understanding of what that consittutes)Why are You telling me I complaing about the game to much Dude Id say whining about whimsical nothings s about sums up you entire repatriere.

 

[T.A JONES]

Thanks for that. It definitely wasn't aimed at you. In fact, the opposite!
I'm sure we're both thinking of the same person/people.

Hey Jesse I know we had are differnces in the past so I do appreciate your politness in not singling me out

I invite you to look back as well and see where I charted my course along this pointless an everlasting debate and Tell me where I crossed the line to the point of obsession.
Sure its Pointless in the BIG picture lol, but hell we choose to come here and are here now so we mind as well discuss in relevence and back up are opinions as best we can without being afraid to be labled to much of a civfan No?

I mean WHen we are at work we work don't we? Im not afraid to be called to hard a worker by my peers This sure ain't work but sometimes it ain;t easy with some/one of these guys . Still I have a good time and I never mean to offend only defend when my veiws are bitten off the bunch and thrown into question


Im sure we could find better ways to use are time then having to defend are opinions online over what game we like to play.)

But like you say is alluring for some reason Take er easy man

 

[T.A JONES]

What impressed me the most was being able to zoom out to ‘space’ and watch the clouds float over the ‘world’. I remember uttering the words 'cool'.

It was a step in the right direction for my personal Civ’ing.

Some of you guys never got to really play good modded material for civ3 before the sequal came out and you were blinded by flashy graphics and fancy doodads " Hey look at the globe!! Im zoom'in am zoomin,look at me!!, am zoomin! whoopeeee !!...* Crash*

Im kiddin of course but I think people like GPS who have this idea of 'clones' and a million " 3 new units!" mods are all civ3 has to offer in the face of civ4 new idea amd improvments to Civ3 conquest"UNMODDED.

WHen I bring up examples of new developments brought to light during civ4s time like civ3's new Vassel system for instance . IM not bragging or boasting "civ3 is so gooooooood" " Its simply a 'hey this is what you missed. Check it out-(provided theres a link) " Now Can you see why others are still playing civ3 now? Great, if you still think it ain;t for you hey ohwell' THe game ain't for eveyone

 

[jessiecat]

Hey Jesse I know we had are differnces in the past so I do appreciate your politness in not singling me out

I invite you to look back as well and see where I charted my course along this pointless an everlasting debate and Tell me where I crossed the line to the point of obsession.
Sure its Pointless in the BIG picture lol, but hell we choose to come here and are here now so we mind as well discuss in relevence and back up are opinions as best we can without being afraid to be labled to much of a civfan No?

I mean WHen we are at work we work don't we? Im not afraid to be called to hard a worker by my peers This sure ain't work but sometimes it ain;t easy with some/one of these guys . Still I have a good time and I never mean to offend only defend when my veiws are bitten off the bunch and thrown into question


Im sure we could find better ways to use are time then having to defend are opinions online over what game we like to play.)

But like you say is alluring for some reason Take er easy man

Not even exclusively about you, T.A.. but more a general observation
of how boringly-long this thread has been continued by a tiny proportion
of Civ. fanatics. My only comment to you esp. is;
Try not to assume that newer is always better or
that different is always better or worse.
It's just "different"! Right?

 

[T.A JONES]

Not even exclusively about you, T.A.. but more a general observation
of how boringly-long this thread has been continued by a tiny proportion
of Civ. fanatics. My only comment to you esp. is;
Try not to assume that newer is always better or
that different is always better or worse.
It's just "different"! Right?

I got you man. To quick to judge.

Thanks for that. It definitely wasn't aimed at you. In fact, the opposite!
I'm sure we're both thinking of the same person/people.

Since 40 of the posts on this thread, by far the most from the same person, were made by this same guy who you say was acting opposite from who your had in mind, I though this was a rather funny remark.

Theres 7000 veiws on the thread. (actully add another 350 but I say we can designate those to the 2 or 3 you call the regulars'

It ok if a few do the talking for many if they resonate the common feeling of a wider audience.(note: example noway hinting member endorsed further thoughts yet the same veiw was defended by me throughout from that moment on)

I guess IM scimming through n' ringing out all my responses to fast to get what you meant. Ive got to get back on the road in time so Take er easy in jolly ol' England my friend . Sadly There will be a few less trees n mountains to come home to. The exploration industry is booming!

 

[Reiko]

If I could get the old Call to Power civs to work right with wide screen and was able to use large maps, I would be playing those right now.

 

[jessiecat]

I got you man. To quick to judge.

Since 40 of the posts on this thread, by far the most from the same person, were made by this same guy who you say was acting opposite from who your had in mind, I though this was a rather funny remark.

Theres 7000 veiws on the thread. (actully add another 350 but I say we can designate those to the 2 or 3 you call the regulars'

It ok if a few do the talking for many if they resonate the common feeling of a wider audience.(note: example noway hinting member endorsed further thoughts yet the same veiw was defended by me throughout from that moment on)

I guess IM scimming through n' ringing out all my responses to fast to get what you meant. Ive got to get back on the road in time so Take er easy in jolly ol' England my friend . Sadly There will be a few less trees n mountains to come home to. The exploration industry is booming!

Obviously, you've checked out my profile and realized that I'm not English
but Canadian living in Europe. Great detective work, There, T.A.!
So you'll realize that if ever I do get home there'll be no trees left.
They'll be " put in a tree museum". (thanks, Joni, just quoting)
If that means I think of myself as more European than N.American,
then so be it!

 

[Henrik]

Civ II was fading away, as the majority of gamers upgraded to III (Hardcore II fans don't shoot!) Today, the Civ III community is still very healthy, which may be a sign that perhaps I'm not alone in my feelings regarding IV.

Actually the civ 2 community had a renaissance around the time of civ 3 which lasted them atleast about two years with more activity then ever