CIV 5, 10 months after release

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I bought the game as it came out, played a bit, stopped for 6 months, came back for 2 weeks, stopped for another 5 months and tried it again a for a few days. It hasn't changed much at all, and now I know it never will.

This is also how I play Civ, but this goes to all games. And for me, you can basically swap around the "months" and "weeks" positions in your sentence. Bought it, played a few months, spent some time on other games (Fallout, the older civs, and CoD if my brain is hemhorraging) and come back for another month or two, break for a few weeks, etc. I find it better than the other civs. I played the hell out of all that I own (Civ 3, Civ 4, Civ Rev and Civ 5) and have 235 hours logged with 5, 124 with 4, 36 with 3, and about 11 with Rev, yet I still keep coming back to 5. Sometimes streamlining isn't a bad thing. The simplified system, at least for me, helps the game flow by much quicker, and the actual micromanagement aspect is still somewhat intact, so the actual strategy certainly didn't take a very big hit.
 
This is also how I play Civ, but this goes to all games. And for me, you can basically swap around the "months" and "weeks" positions in your sentence. Bought it, played a few months, spent some time on other games (Fallout, the older civs, and CoD if my brain is hemhorraging) and come back for another month or two, break for a few weeks, etc. I find it better than the other civs. I played the hell out of all that I own (Civ 3, Civ 4, Civ Rev and Civ 5) and have 235 hours logged with 5, 124 with 4, 36 with 3, and about 11 with Rev, yet I still keep coming back to 5. Sometimes streamlining isn't a bad thing. The simplified system, at least for me, helps the game flow by much quicker, and the actual micromanagement aspect is still somewhat intact, so the actual strategy certainly didn't take a very big hit.

But you realise that we are coming back to it for different reasons, don't you? You like occasionally having a game of ciV, I came back to it to check what has become of it. I play cIV a lot and, although I tend to play other games as well, it is by far the game I play the most.
 
I get what you mean, I'm sure you are doing what you think is right in fighting for something you care a great deal about. I just want to point out that not everyone agrees with you. Your opinion that the game is a "debacle" and needs to be rescued by modders is not a fact, and to state it that way comes across as a bit arrogant IMO.

There are several fundamental problems with civilization V. Yes, that's right. Fundamental. Meaning, the game is bad from the core; built upon a rotten foundation; built upon sand; not as a good as previous games in the series.

So I shall begin:

1UPT is the biggest problem with the game, a fundamental and major one at that. Everything revolves around it. And it is an extremely flawed mechanic. Combat is not anymore tactical than in cIV. Stacks of doom were not really tactics friendly, but hey, the focus of the game is to build an empire, not wage war. War is but one piece of the puzzle. Everything else (buildings, wonders, economy, culture, science, improvements, etc) is just as important as combat. An improvement in combat would be nice. When I say this I mean it would be nice if 1upt actually was an improvement and did not have to drag down all of the other components of Civilization.

Civilization is built on a large scale with large empires. Many troops are produced. But now, they cant all fit into the map if you produce enough of them. If too many are produced the entire map gets filled with these things. Therefore, the only logical step is to reduce production costs so that such large numbers of units (as seen in previous civ games) are not produced. Early game combat works out nicely. However, as the game progresses the player will acquire more troops, this is simple enough to understand. Everyone's empires get larger, logically you will need more troops to conquer these empires. This is when carpets of doom emerge. They are no more tactical than stacks of doom. The only difference is that you have to personally move each and every unit at a time. Incredibly time consuming! Traffic jams form left and right. It is tedious, annoying, overbearing, and cumbersome. Think about what happens every time you run into a mountain or a hostile troop. What about the treacherous naval invasions?

This is not merely my opinion. It is a statement based on the subject of human nature. It is not fun to sit there each turn slowly moving forward unit after unit. It is tedious and overbearing. 1UPT is a fundamental problem. And profoundly and negatively affects the whole game.

Buildings: Because troop production is reduced, so must building production. Yields are reduced and building maintenance is introduced (if the players are able to build all of the buildings then they will have more time to build troops which will result in the map being clogged up). Maintenance costs are implemented on everything (including troops) as another way to try to reduce production.

Yes, in this game it is more beneficial to build nothing than something! It ceases to become a question of "what will be best for my empire?" and becomes a matter of choosing between the lesser of two evils.

Cant build that! It will destroy my economy.
Cant build that! It will destroy my economy.
Cant build that! It will destroy my economy.
Ooh. This won't harm me too much. Let's go with this.


This is a direct result of 1UPT. Everything in the game must be altered and sacrificed to make room for 1upt.
AI: they are very bad using 1upt. The only solution to this problem would be the emergence of the fabled super patch that will fix all woes regarding the subject. I dont buy it. Simply, enough the AI cannot handle 1upt. Problems which were covered up with stacks of doom were placed in the spotlight with 1upt. The solution to this problem is only mythical.

So much had to be given up for 1UPT. It largely consist of the rotten foundation on which the game is based.

The next piece of the rotten foundation is global happiness. In Civ 1,2,3, it was corruption. In civ 4 it was maintenance (a feature which was effectively the best of these limiting factors out of any of the games. Corruption would always be over powered because regardless of how many poorly placed cities you had, a city would still be of use no matter how corrupt they were. In cIV, maintenance mandated that civs could not expand too quickly. If you did, your economy would stagnate. Rather, each city was an investment. Eventually, they would be paid off and late game empires would still be huge. Maintenance.). In ciV, that limiting feature is global happiness. Global happiness is a failed mechanic. What global happiness tries to do is make sure that no civilization will ever have more than a handful of cities. If you play the game according to the mechanics which regulate it, your empires will never be huge. They will be small and so will the feeling of the game. However, you can bypass this. Spam cities. Keep them small. Build a coliseum and some wonders. The mechanic does nothing in effect, besides ensure that your empire is composed of a bunch small, unhappy, cities. Many others will simply be puppets. This is a flaw. And to go further it is not a fun mechanic either. Being forced to either have a tiny little civ or a sprawling, sparsely populated country is simply not fun.

Of course, not to mention the ever so many penalties (again) you get. If you try to build a real empire all that happens is that you get stuck in one of those depressing unhappiness depressions. Yes, your entire empire literally becomes depressed. Everyone is unhappy. You're unhappy and your virtual people are unhappy. Why must it be this way?

These fundamental problems cannot be worked around. The only solution is to tear the house down and start fresh.
 
If you want a compelling game with lots of depth and content (with tons of mods that add even MORE to it), pick Civ IV. If you want a casual game that's fun and easy, but simple yet still with some interesting mechanics, pick Civ V.
 
If you want a compelling game with lots of depth and content (with tons of mods that add even MORE to it), pick Civ IV. If you want a casual game that's fun and easy, but simple yet still with some interesting mechanics, pick Civ V.

:sarcasm: Oh yes, their is nothing more deep and compelling then stacking a bunch of units up and sending them to fight to their deaths with a single longbowman garrisoned in a city. Or Monty declaring war on you when you don't convert to Buddhism.

But seriously though, I seriously think Civ V is a much deeper game than Civ IV.
If you want something casual, you'll be pleased to now that Firaxis has already released a casual civ game:eek:
It's called Civilization Revolution, its for people to feel that they are good strategy players, while jamming away on an XBox controller.
 
Wow, 10 months and this fight continues, almost unabated.

It's more than evident now that this whole argument won't be going away anytime soon, more pushed over to the corner until another person brings up a matter of opinion. So I'm over it; my opinion is well established, in fact I've upset at least one person on this forum from my pious trolling - yea I'll admit my piety.

I won't sumbit anymore of my opinion, nor the reasons why I reach my opinion, regarding Civilization V; all it appears to be doing is fuelling this in-fighting and further disrupting relations in the forum. I don't want to be another rampaging problem about the place, however lightly the community would take such abuse, nor do I want to insult or accuse people just because they think different to me, however lightly the insult or accusation would be; therefore I'll stop, and encourage others to stop. People like Civ5, people don't; let's not get into a war about it.

My final word on the matter is this; I live Civilization V.
 
Wow, 10 months and this fight continues, almost unabated.

It's more than evident now that this whole argument won't be going away anytime soon, more pushed over to the corner until another person brings up a matter of opinion. So I'm over it; my opinion is well established, in fact I've upset at least one person on this forum from my pious trolling - yea I'll admit my piety.

I won't sumbit anymore of my opinion, nor the reasons why I reach my opinion, regarding Civilization V; all it appears to be doing is fuelling this in-fighting and further disrupting relations in the forum. I don't want to be another rampaging problem about the place, however lightly the community would take such abuse, nor do I want to insult or accuse people just because they think different to me, however lightly the insult or accusation would be; therefore I'll stop, and encourage others to stop. People like Civ5, people don't; let's not get into a war about it.

My final word on the matter is this; I live Civilization V.

Funny how you say you won't say, yet you say. :)

But it is true, Civilization 5 is like this and won't change. The ones who don't like it (including myself) will have to wait for the 6th installment to come out, and that'll be the moment of truth: Either the series will die for those of us or it will be fun again.

One thing is for sure, though: I'll be trying before buying next time ;)
 
There are several fundamental problems with civilization V. Yes, that's right. Fundamental. Meaning, the game is bad from the core; built upon a rotten foundation; built upon sand; not as a good as previous games in the series.

So I shall begin:

1UPT is the biggest problem with the game, a fundamental and major one at that. Everything revolves around it. And it is an extremely flawed mechanic. Combat is not anymore tactical than in cIV. Stacks of doom were not really tactics friendly, but hey, the focus of the game is to build an empire, not wage war. War is but one piece of the puzzle. Everything else (buildings, wonders, economy, culture, science, improvements, etc) is just as important as combat. An improvement in combat would be nice. When I say this I mean it would be nice if 1upt actually was an improvement and did not have to drag down all of the other components of Civilization.

Civilization is built on a large scale with large empires. Many troops are produced. But now, they cant all fit into the map if you produce enough of them. If too many are produced the entire map gets filled with these things. Therefore, the only logical step is to reduce production costs so that such large numbers of units (as seen in previous civ games) are not produced. Early game combat works out nicely. However, as the game progresses the player will acquire more troops, this is simple enough to understand. Everyone's empires get larger, logically you will need more troops to conquer these empires. This is when carpets of doom emerge. They are no more tactical than stacks of doom. The only difference is that you have to personally move each and every unit at a time. Incredibly time consuming! Traffic jams form left and right. It is tedious, annoying, overbearing, and cumbersome. Think about what happens every time you run into a mountain or a hostile troop. What about the treacherous naval invasions?

This is not merely my opinion. It is a statement based on the subject of human nature. It is not fun to sit there each turn slowly moving forward unit after unit. It is tedious and overbearing. 1UPT is a fundamental problem. And profoundly and negatively affects the whole game.

Buildings: Because troop production is reduced, so must building production. Yields are reduced and building maintenance is introduced (if the players are able to build all of the buildings then they will have more time to build troops which will result in the map being clogged up). Maintenance costs are implemented on everything (including troops) as another way to try to reduce production.

Yes, in this game it is more beneficial to build nothing than something! It ceases to become a question of "what will be best for my empire?" and becomes a matter of choosing between the lesser of two evils.

Cant build that! It will destroy my economy.
Cant build that! It will destroy my economy.
Cant build that! It will destroy my economy.
Ooh. This won't harm me too much. Let's go with this.


This is a direct result of 1UPT. Everything in the game must be altered and sacrificed to make room for 1upt.
AI: they are very bad using 1upt. The only solution to this problem would be the emergence of the fabled super patch that will fix all woes regarding the subject. I dont buy it. Simply, enough the AI cannot handle 1upt. Problems which were covered up with stacks of doom were placed in the spotlight with 1upt. The solution to this problem is only mythical.

So much had to be given up for 1UPT. It largely consist of the rotten foundation on which the game is based.

The next piece of the rotten foundation is global happiness. In Civ 1,2,3, it was corruption. In civ 4 it was maintenance (a feature which was effectively the best of these limiting factors out of any of the games. Corruption would always be over powered because regardless of how many poorly placed cities you had, a city would still be of use no matter how corrupt they were. In cIV, maintenance mandated that civs could not expand too quickly. If you did, your economy would stagnate. Rather, each city was an investment. Eventually, they would be paid off and late game empires would still be huge. Maintenance.). In ciV, that limiting feature is global happiness. Global happiness is a failed mechanic. What global happiness tries to do is make sure that no civilization will ever have more than a handful of cities. If you play the game according to the mechanics which regulate it, your empires will never be huge. They will be small and so will the feeling of the game. However, you can bypass this. Spam cities. Keep them small. Build a coliseum and some wonders. The mechanic does nothing in effect, besides ensure that your empire is composed of a bunch small, unhappy, cities. Many others will simply be puppets. This is a flaw. And to go further it is not a fun mechanic either. Being forced to either have a tiny little civ or a sprawling, sparsely populated country is simply not fun.

Of course, not to mention the ever so many penalties (again) you get. If you try to build a real empire all that happens is that you get stuck in one of those depressing unhappiness depressions. Yes, your entire empire literally becomes depressed. Everyone is unhappy. You're unhappy and your virtual people are unhappy. Why must it be this way?

These fundamental problems cannot be worked around. The only solution is to tear the house down and start fresh.

how can you argue that fun is not subjective?? You seriously think you can sit there and tell me if I'm having fun or not?? That's the most ridiculous post I've ever read on the subject, and there are a LOT of them.
 
Also,

- I play large, wide empires all the time and it's pretty easy to manage the happiness
- A lot of people are ok with the tradeoff of more troop micromanagement for more realism, and enjoy the new tactical nature of warfare
- I don't have that problem at all with buildings, have you played at all since any of the patches came out? Sure there are some decisions to be made...not every building should be built in every city. Each building seems to have its time & place to be worth building though.
 
Also,

- I play large, wide empires all the time and it's pretty easy to manage the happiness
- A lot of people are ok with the tradeoff of more troop micromanagement for more realism, and enjoy the new tactical nature of warfare
- I don't have that problem at all with buildings, have you played at all since any of the patches came out? Sure there are some decisions to be made...not every building should be built in every city. Each building seems to have its time & place to be worth building though.

I agree. Spamming all buildings in all cities has always been a terrible way to play in all Civs. The fact that in Civ 5 you really have to prioritise where you want to put them is a big plus in my opinion. Although city specialising was a big aspect of Civ4 I prefer how it is done in Civ5.
 
If you want a compelling game with lots of depth and content (with tons of mods that add even MORE to it), pick Civ IV. If you want a casual game that's fun and easy, but simple yet still with some interesting mechanics, pick Civ V.

It is not as simple as that. If you want either of those pick civ iv.

:sarcasm: Oh yes, their is nothing more deep and compelling then stacking a bunch of units up and sending them to fight to their deaths with a single longbowman garrisoned in a city. Or Monty declaring war on you when you don't convert to Buddhism.

It's not quite fair to sum up the ENTIRE game based on your impressions of combat. FYI, combat is not the game, just part of it. Besides carpets of doom are no better a mechanic than stacks of doom.

Or Monty declaring war on you when you don't convert to Buddhism.

I don't understand why you find the concept of religion as laughable. It offered a new course to reach victory. It made the game more engaging. It was just one of the many ways you could conduct diplomacy. This would be opposed to the simple civ V diplomacy in which you are randomly declared war on by stupid AI.

But seriously though, I seriously think Civ V is a much deeper game than Civ IV.
Would you be so kind as to explain why this is?

If you want something casual, you'll be pleased to now that Firaxis has already released a casual civ game:eek:
It's called Civilization Revolution, its for people to feel that they are good strategy players, while jamming away on an XBox controller.

D'accord.

how can you argue that fun is not subjective?? You seriously think you can sit there and tell me if I'm having fun or not??

Allow me to rephrase: civilization V is a bad game because it is riddled with bad mechanics. 1UPT was a botched attempt to enhance tactical combat. Everything in the game was sacrificed or damaged. Production values had to be reduced and the number of cities had to be reduced. Everything had to be down scaled in order to make room for one mechanic. This process, of down scaling effectively ruined the game. And what is our result? Tactical combat still yet is worse than it was in cIV. The AI cannot handle it and the player becomes encumbered by the tedious movement of their many troops in the painful carpets of doom.

Global unhappiness is yet another failed mechanic. It's goal is to ensure that the player is stuck with a handful of cities in a small country. Empire buildings games should not require that the player must have a small empire, one that's not even by definition an empire.

That's the most ridiculous post I've ever read on the subject, and there are a LOT of them.

Sadly, there are a lot of them. We liked civilization for what it was. Not what it has become. All of the downscaling of Civ V were not for the better. Hence, why so many of us continue to play names earlier in the series. They were better.

Also,

- I play large, wide empires all the time and it's pretty easy to manage the happiness
- A lot of people are ok with the tradeoff of more troop micromanagement for more realism, and enjoy the new tactical nature of warfare
- I don't have that problem at all with buildings, have you played at all since any of the patches came out? Sure there are some decisions to be made...not every building should be built in every city. Each building seems to have its time & place to be worth building though.

- I play large, wide empires all the time and it's pretty easy to manage the happiness

Thank you for reaffirming my point that global happiness is a failed mechanic. You cannot have a large empire. You either have a small country or a spread out, low densely populated empire. This would mean a bunch little cities with nothing more than a Colosseum. The limiting factor is effectively useless.


- A lot of people are ok with the tradeoff of more troop micromanagement for more realism, and enjoy the new tactical nature of warfare

What, if you would be so kind to explain, makes this combat oh so tactical, exactly? The carpets of doom or the part where the AI don't know how to play the game?

- I don't have that problem at all with buildings, have you played at all since any of the patches came out? Sure there are some decisions to be made...not every building should be built in every city. Each building seems to have its time & place to be worth building though.
Maintenance costs and the fact that your country must have strictly regulated happiness ensures extra gold must be dedicated to the preservation of a content empire. You cannot build most buildings. If you do, then you will lose all of your money and your economy will stall. Not every building can be built in each city. In fact most buildings cant be built in each city.

I agree. Spamming all buildings in all cities has always been a terrible way to play in all Civs. The fact that in Civ 5 you really have to prioritise where you want to put them is a big plus in my opinion. Although city specialising was a big aspect of Civ4 I prefer how it is done in Civ5.

In previous civs you did not just spam every building in every city. You would never have time to do that. If you did you were either going to get crushed by the AI (because the AI didn't suck) or were on way too easy of a difficulty. The only cost of buildings was the opportunity cost.

In Civ V, you are penalized for everything. When you come across a decision you should have to pick between two good options rather than the lesser of two evils. The only expense to building anything should be the opportunity cost. Building should not be something that will cripple your economy.
 
Allow me to rephrase: civilization V is a bad game because it is riddled with bad mechanics. 1UPT was a botched attempt to enhance tactical combat. Everything in the game was sacrificed or damaged. Production values had to be reduced and the number of cities had to be reduced. Everything had to be down scaled in order to make room for one mechanic. This process, of down scaling effectively ruined the game. And what is our result? Tactical combat still yet is worse than it was in cIV. The AI cannot handle it and the player becomes encumbered by the tedious movement of their many troops in the painful carpets of doom.
Great summation of the whole problem. :)

In the end we effectively ended up with a square peg which is half smashed into that round hole.

The lead designer's hubris led to disastrous consequences for the game. :sad:
 
10 Months and still the same fight, yawn. You have the few haters posting in every thread still, you have the other side telling you how great the game is.

The game has improved I think we can agree on that or? Buildings matter a lot more now, diplomacy is a bit strange still, but manageable when you figure it out. Take it out for a spin and see if you like it!
 
10 Months and still the same fight, yawn. You have the few haters posting in every thread still, you have the other side telling you how great the game is.

The game has improved I think we can agree on that or? Buildings matter a lot more now, diplomacy is a bit strange still, but manageable when you figure it out. Take it out for a spin and see if you like it!

There is nothing wrong with civil discussion.
 
Well I did play Civ1 (on a Spectrum??) and Civ2 (on Amiga??)
Not likely, no...
but I can't remember them that well as I was too young. I think by civ2 I was old enough to play properly but still can't remember. I still think they were more 5 like than 4 like though. You had espionage like Civ4 but thats the only thing I think of now.
Civ4 was the refined version of the very concept of "Civilization".
Civ5 is the derailed bastard child between Panzer General and Civilization, failing at both.
There are several fundamental problems with civilization V. Yes, that's right. Fundamental. Meaning, the game is bad from the core; built upon a rotten foundation; built upon sand; not as a good as previous games in the series.
Exactly.
 
There are several fundamental problems with civilization V. Yes, that's right. Fundamental. Meaning, the game is bad from the core; built upon a rotten foundation; built upon sand; not as a good as previous games in the series.

So I shall begin:

1UPT is the biggest problem with the game, a fundamental and major one at that. Everything revolves around it. And it is an extremely flawed mechanic. Combat is not anymore tactical than in cIV. Stacks of doom were not really tactics friendly, but hey, the focus of the game is to build an empire, not wage war. War is but one piece of the puzzle. Everything else (buildings, wonders, economy, culture, science, improvements, etc) is just as important as combat. An improvement in combat would be nice. When I say this I mean it would be nice if 1upt actually was an improvement and did not have to drag down all of the other components of Civilization.

Civilization is built on a large scale with large empires. Many troops are produced. But now, they cant all fit into the map if you produce enough of them. If too many are produced the entire map gets filled with these things. Therefore, the only logical step is to reduce production costs so that such large numbers of units (as seen in previous civ games) are not produced. Early game combat works out nicely. However, as the game progresses the player will acquire more troops, this is simple enough to understand. Everyone's empires get larger, logically you will need more troops to conquer these empires. This is when carpets of doom emerge. They are no more tactical than stacks of doom. The only difference is that you have to personally move each and every unit at a time. Incredibly time consuming! Traffic jams form left and right. It is tedious, annoying, overbearing, and cumbersome. Think about what happens every time you run into a mountain or a hostile troop. What about the treacherous naval invasions?

This is not merely my opinion. It is a statement based on the subject of human nature. It is not fun to sit there each turn slowly moving forward unit after unit. It is tedious and overbearing. 1UPT is a fundamental problem. And profoundly and negatively affects the whole game.

Buildings: Because troop production is reduced, so must building production. Yields are reduced and building maintenance is introduced (if the players are able to build all of the buildings then they will have more time to build troops which will result in the map being clogged up). Maintenance costs are implemented on everything (including troops) as another way to try to reduce production.

Yes, in this game it is more beneficial to build nothing than something! It ceases to become a question of "what will be best for my empire?" and becomes a matter of choosing between the lesser of two evils.

Cant build that! It will destroy my economy.
Cant build that! It will destroy my economy.
Cant build that! It will destroy my economy.
Ooh. This won't harm me too much. Let's go with this.


This is a direct result of 1UPT. Everything in the game must be altered and sacrificed to make room for 1upt.
AI: they are very bad using 1upt. The only solution to this problem would be the emergence of the fabled super patch that will fix all woes regarding the subject. I dont buy it. Simply, enough the AI cannot handle 1upt. Problems which were covered up with stacks of doom were placed in the spotlight with 1upt. The solution to this problem is only mythical.

So much had to be given up for 1UPT. It largely consist of the rotten foundation on which the game is based.

The next piece of the rotten foundation is global happiness. In Civ 1,2,3, it was corruption. In civ 4 it was maintenance (a feature which was effectively the best of these limiting factors out of any of the games. Corruption would always be over powered because regardless of how many poorly placed cities you had, a city would still be of use no matter how corrupt they were. In cIV, maintenance mandated that civs could not expand too quickly. If you did, your economy would stagnate. Rather, each city was an investment. Eventually, they would be paid off and late game empires would still be huge. Maintenance.). In ciV, that limiting feature is global happiness. Global happiness is a failed mechanic. What global happiness tries to do is make sure that no civilization will ever have more than a handful of cities. If you play the game according to the mechanics which regulate it, your empires will never be huge. They will be small and so will the feeling of the game. However, you can bypass this. Spam cities. Keep them small. Build a coliseum and some wonders. The mechanic does nothing in effect, besides ensure that your empire is composed of a bunch small, unhappy, cities. Many others will simply be puppets. This is a flaw. And to go further it is not a fun mechanic either. Being forced to either have a tiny little civ or a sprawling, sparsely populated country is simply not fun.

Of course, not to mention the ever so many penalties (again) you get. If you try to build a real empire all that happens is that you get stuck in one of those depressing unhappiness depressions. Yes, your entire empire literally becomes depressed. Everyone is unhappy. You're unhappy and your virtual people are unhappy. Why must it be this way?

These fundamental problems cannot be worked around. The only solution is to tear the house down and start fresh.

Coming from someone who put hundreds of hours into civ, Civ 5 alone has taken up more of my time than Civ 4, Civ Rev, and Civ 3 combined. I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you, I rarely encounter any of the problems you list.
 
FIrst post here. I haven't been lurking in the forums for nearly 8 months, and the Civ V debate still seems to drag on...

As an older player (30+), I've enjoyed the series for the better part of 18 years. Every single CIV so far have been different from the previous. Period. And I've enjoyed every single one of them, including V. Although it took a long while to actually appreciate it at all...

<snip>

After just complaining for a few months to every single person that even mentioned the game, I saw it on sale, and just hoped that patches had solved the major balance issues that plagued the game in the beginning. I was pleasantly surprised. The social policies seem to work just fine, and I can get a more balanced and varied tactic to go with, and the bonuses from adopting and completing a policy gives some reason to even care. The 1upt is still good IMO, I was never a fan of the SoD approach. But just like every aspect of the game, it's just my opinion. 1upt amounts to too much traffic and just limits your military power too much, but why not simply limit the number of units on a tile to just two or something..? The spread out and sometimes very limited resources gives more realism, just like in the real world, you actually have to engage in diplomacy not just steamroller the whole globe to a victory.

I was never a fan of the religions in IV, since basically if you avoided a religion you ended up in war with rest of the world which shared the same religion. It was just plain annoying. And some pretty year, Hannibal appeared on your coast with a stack of grenadiers, and that was the end of fun times...

Anyway, here where some of my thoughts on the game. I enjoy V, and actually I enjoy Civ IV as well. But I think people have to remember (or atleast I remember) that vanilla Civ IV wasn't an awe-inspiring game in the beginning either (compared to the mature III), and IMO most people just resort to straight up nostalgia when talking about it. It matured over time, and once BTS rolled out, it was just fantastic and every bit as addicting as the previous installment. Maybe the best Civ ever. Civ V is a bit different, and although I don't quite see it ever becoming as good as IV, it's still going to get hundreds of hours of play.

Moderator Action: Please don't make reference to pirating.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
FIrst post here. I haven't been lurking in the forums for nearly 8 months, and the Civ V debate still seems to drag on...

I was never a fan of the religions in IV, since basically if you avoided a religion you ended up in war with rest of the world which shared the same religion. It was just plain annoying. And some pretty year, Hannibal appeared on your coast with a stack of grenadiers, and that was the end of fun times...

avoiding religion was the best way to stay out of wars, (unless everyone was the same religion on a continent), because it allowed you to take a neutral stance and you might still be pressured by civ's to adopt their religion, but the diplo hit you took for ignoring their requests wasn't anything like the one you got for being a different religion then them.

I dont think many detractors of the religion system really understood how it worked - even though it's the exact same thing as the dof/denouncement used in civ 5 where groups of people like each other, and hate others that dont like them, etc. It's basically a dumbed down version of religion without the missionaries or any sort of immersion. I woudn;t be surprised if the base code for them is just tweaked code for religions from Civ 4.
 
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