Civ 5 Arda mod (LOTR)

[The Little One]

I know this should be in the Creation and Customization section but I posted a thread there and the whole sub-forum seems quite inactive.

Hi everyone! You probably won't recognize my name, I made an account on these forums so I could tell you about a mod that I'm making, and ask for some help.

Basically, I'm making a mod containing (hopefully) 14 Civs from the Lord of the Rings, such as Gondor, Mordor, The Shire and the Elves, including units like Nazgul, Mumakil (Oliphaunts), and Balrogs.

To check that I'm doing everything right, I'm starting by making the Rohan civilization. I'll attempt to finish that and if it works I'll start on the others. But I need some help.

I've started on the XML, but at the moment I need some people for the following things:
Unit Graphics (the thing that's stumped me the most...)
Art
Thinking of ideas

Here are the details for the Rohan Civilization:

Spoiler :

Leader: Theoden
Trait: Riders of Rohan - Horses produce double quantity, mounted units move faster, start with animal husbandry
Unique unit 1: Rohirrim (Replaces knight. Stronger and faster but more expensive)
UU 2: Royal Guard (Replaces Pikeman. Stronger and cheaper but has a heavy penalty attacking cities)
UB: Mearas stables (Replaces stables. Larger mounted unit production bonus)
(I know, 3 uniques...)
Icon: Horse

There are probably lots more things I'll need help for

If you're interested in helping, or want more details, send me a Private Message or reply on this thread

Thanks!

 

[The Little One]

No one? I probably won't be able to make this mod, which is essentially a CiV remake of the Civ 4 arda mod, without help. So if you ever want to see Balrogs crushing the people of Gondor, please help if you can!

 

[headcase]

Check out this forum and its sub-forums: http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=393

 

[The Little One]

Yeah, I posted it in new civilizations but didn't get any replies so I thought I'd post here where there are more people. I'll try some different sub-forums

 

[headcase]

Yeah, I totally missed your disclaimer at the beginning...

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action:
1 thread moved from General discussion to C&C.
1 thread moved from "New civilizations" to the C&C main forum.
Both threads merged with a similar thread.

a) the "new civs" subforum is meant for new civs, not for any questions/help for new civs.
b) inactivity in a wrong posted thread for one day is not a reason to repost it
c) and opening the same threads in multiple areas does not really make much sense.

 

[The Little One]

Moderator Action:
1 thread moved from General discussion to C&C.
1 thread moved from "New civilizations" to the C&C main forum.
Both threads merged with a similar thread.

a) the "new civs" subforum is meant for new civs, not for any questions/help for new civs.
b) inactivity in a wrong posted thread for one day is not a reason to repost it
c) and opening the same threads in multiple areas does not really make much sense.

Thanks, I did just realise that posting more than one thread was probably a bad idea

 

[Ahriman]

If you are making a LotR mod, I would expect a total conversion. I don't think it would make too much sense to sense to start creating factions and assigning UUs and UAs without having first designed a new tech tree, unit roster, etc.

I would hope that there would be far more difference between many factions than just a handful of UUs/UBs.

 

[The Little One]

If you are making a LotR mod, I would expect a total conversion. I don't think it would make too much sense to sense to start creating factions and assigning UUs and UAs without having first designed a new tech tree, unit roster, etc.

I would hope that there would be far more difference between many factions than just a handful of UUs/UBs.

I'll also be adding resources and wonders, but I'm not sure about total conversion yet

 

[Ahriman]

I would think it would be a no-brainer that a LotR mod would need its own tech tree. It wouldn't make much sense for Elves, Orcs and Rohirrim to be discovering the secrets of Rifling or Flight.

A new tech tree implies the need for a new unit roster, since there are only a handful of Civ units that make sense in game (classical and medieval units).

And the existing social policy tree wouldn't make that much sense either.

So, I'm not sure that standalone pieces really make sense; I doubt many people are interested in games with England, China, Rohan and Mordor.

 

[The Little One]

I would think it would be a no-brainer that a LotR mod would need its own tech tree. It wouldn't make much sense for Elves, Orcs and Rohirrim to be discovering the secrets of Rifling or Flight.

I've started designing a tech tree. What I'll probably do is add more early-game techs, but still have the late game as an option once the first 3/4 eras are done.
IMO, people would get easily bored of a game that basically ends in the medieval era

A new tech tree implies the need for a new unit roster, since there are only a handful of Civ units that make sense in game (classical and medieval units).

As I said above, I will add more early-game units and buildings, but the late game ones will remain there

And the existing social policy tree wouldn't make that much sense either.

A fair point. I'll almost certainly do something about that

So, I'm not sure that standalone pieces really make sense; I doubt many people are interested in games with England, China, Rohan and Mordor.

What I might do is start with the basic civs and UUs. If they were popular, I could then start going for Total Conversion. (If people wanted)

But thanks for the advice

 

[Pazyryk]

IMO, people would get easily bored of a game that basically ends in the medieval era

A lot of us get bored at the medieval era and quit soon after.

However, you should start your modding modestly. Make a map and a few LoTR civs with some UUs and UBs. If you find yourself addicted to the process of modding (as some here are) then think about a total conversion mod that develops the actual LoTR tech trees, policies, etc. But that's a ton of work so you have to be a little crazy to contemplate it.

 

[The Little One]

A lot of us get bored at the medieval era and quit soon after.

However, you should start your modding modestly. Make a map and a few LoTR civs with some UUs and UBs. If you find yourself addicted to the process of modding (as some here are) then think about a total conversion mod that develops the actual LoTR tech trees, policies, etc. But that's a ton of work so you have to be a little crazy to contemplate it.

I already have 2 maps in progress and more planned. I have 15 Civs planned (thought of another one - Forochel since the original post) and I'll publish them before I get into full conversion (which I'm already planning). And yeah, you're right about the medieval era. I've thought of a ton of new units and techs to enhance the first few eras. If I do go for full conversion, I'll also change the Era names (Years of the trees, First age etc...)

 

[The Little One]

Just thought I should let anyone know who's interested that the Rohan civ is almost finished. I'll probably publish it sometime in the next week or so, then if it's popular and works I'll start on the next few (which will probably be Gondor, Isengard and the Elves)

 

[Ahriman]

What I might do is start with the basic civs and UUs. If they were popular, I could then start going for Total Conversion. (If people wanted)

But thanks for the advice

Fair enough. There is probably some value in starting with something small and achievable, and then building something larger if it works out.

But look at fantasy mods for Civ3 and Civ4; you can easily create a detailed mod with lots of techs and other things going on within a medieval fantasy setting, without needing to get into later technological eras (like adding gunpowder). Gunpowder in middle earth would just feel wrong. Technical development can be about magic or bigger castles/better cavalry/larger armies, not necessarily just actual technological advancements.

Best of luck!

 

[The Little One]

Fair enough. There is probably some value in starting with something small and achievable, and then building something larger if it works out.

But look at fantasy mods for Civ3 and Civ4; you can easily create a detailed mod with lots of techs and other things going on within a medieval fantasy setting, without needing to get into later technological eras (like adding gunpowder). Gunpowder in middle earth would just feel wrong. Technical development can be about magic or bigger castles/better cavalry/larger armies, not necessarily just actual technological advancements.

Best of luck!

Thanks! Should be out soon and as long as people enjoy it, it's fine!

 

[Ahriman]

As an example, here was the tech tree design for our Civ4 Warhammer Fantasy mod (which was unfortunately never completed).

Spoiler :

There's no easy way to include all the information in this kind of format because of all the double counting; how do you show a tech that leads to 2 or more other techs? How do you show leading to with OR requirements?

The easiest way to describe is probably to show requirements and Allows for every tech.

R: means requires.
0 means nothing.
A: means allows.

AND and OR requirements are shown in requirements, but not in allowances.

The techs alone (no effects) in this format (each tech has only a single entry):
Hopefully I don't screw this up. And a few of these are slightly different to in the old version.

Spoiler :

Basic techs:

Fishing. R:0. A:crafting, sailing.
Agriculture. R: 0. A: crafting, animal husbandry, calendar.
Wild paths. R: 0. (given free at start). A: 0
Roads. R: 0. (given free at start) A: Imperial roads.
Hunting: R: 0. A: Animal Husbandry, Archery, warfare.
Mining: R: 0. A: Bronze working.
Mysticism. R: 0. A: Ancient Lore, Calendar, Ceremonial Burial, nature lore.

Brewing. R: Agriculture A: 0
Crafting. R: Fishing OR Agriculture). A: Masonry, trade.
Animal husbandry. R: Agriculture OR hunting. A: Horseback riding, Tracking.
Calendar. R: Agriculture OR Mysticism. A: Astrology, Mathematics. (Could be agriculture AND mysticism, or just agriculture.)
Ancient Lore. R: Mysticism. A: Philosophy, Writing.
Archery. R: Hunting. A: Bowyers, military discipline.
Ceremonial Burial. R: Mysticism.

Metal working line:

Spoiler :

Bronze working. R: mining. A: Metal casting, military discipline.
Metal casting. R: Bronze working. A: Iron working.
Iron working. R: Bronze working. A: Advanced Smithing, military tradition, machinery.
Advanced Smithing. R: Iron working. A: Meteoric Iron, Steel.
Meteoric Iron. R: Advanced Smithing AND Astrology.
Steel. R: Advanced Smithing AND advanced engineering. A: 0

Tactics line:

Spoiler :

Warfare. R: Hunting. A: Military discipline, words of salvation,.
Military Discipline. R: Warfare AND bronze working AND (Archery OR horseback riding). A: Tactics, monster breeding, bowyers, stirrups, Lordship, Tyranny.
Tactics. R: Military discipline AND (Tyranny OR Lordship) AND Archery AND horseback riding. A: Mercenary contracts, military tradition.
Mercenary contracts. R: Tactics AND currency. A: 0.
Military tradition. R: Tactics AND (Civil Service OR Feudalism) AND Stirrups AND Iron working AND bowyers. A: Rifling, Advanced doctrines 1.

Archery line:

Spoiler :

Bowyers. R: Archery, military discipline. A: Advanced Archery, military tradition.
Advanced Archery. R: Bowyers. A: 0.

Recon line:

Spoiler :

Nature lore. R: Hunting AND mysticsm. A: Tracking, Monster taming, Lore of Athel Loren, Lore of Life, elemental magic.
Tracking. R: Nature lore. A: Monster bonding, elemental mastery.

Beast taming line:

Spoiler :

Monster taming. R: Nature lore. A: Monster breeding, Lore of Beasts.
Monster breeding. R: Monster taming, military discipline.
Monster bonding. R: Monster breeding, tracking. A: 0.

Cavalry line:

Spoiler :

Horseback riding. R: animal husbandry. A: Stirrups, Trade, military discipline, tactics.
Stirrups. R: Horseback riding, military discipline. A: Tournaments, military tradition.
Tournaments. R: Stirrups, feudalism. A: 0.

Trade line:

Spoiler :

Trade. R: Sailing OR horseback riding. A: Currency, navigation.
Currency. R: Trade AND metal casting AND Lordship. A: Guilds, mercenary contracts, civil service.
Guilds. R: Currency AND (Civil service OR feudalism). A: Banking.
Banking. R: Guilds. A: Economics.
Economics. R: Banking. A: 0.

Construction line:

Spoiler :

Masonry. R: Crafting. A: construction.
Construction. R: Masonry. A:Sanitation, Irrigation, Engineering, Imperial Roads.
Sanitation. R: Construction. A: Advanced Engineering.
Irrigation. R: Construction. A: Advanced Engineering.
Imperial Roads. R: Construction, Roads, Civil service.
Engineering. R: Construction AND Machinery. A: Rifling, Advanced engineering, advanced doctrines 1.
Advanced engineering. R: Engineering AND civil service AND irrigation AND sanitation. A: Steel, Steam Power.

Chemistry line:

Spoiler :

Alchemy. R: Metal casting AND Philosophy. A: Cannons, lore of metal.
Cannons. R: Alchemy AND Invention. A: Rifling.
Rifling. R: Cannons AND military tradition AND engineering. A: 0.

Mechanisation line:

Spoiler :

Mathematics. R: Masonry AND Philosophy. A: Invention.
Invention. R: Mathematics AND construction. A: Machinery.
Machinery. R: Invention AND iron working. A: engineering.
Steam power. Req: Advanced engineering. A: 0.

Naval line:

Spoiler :

Sailing. R: Fishing. A: Trade, Navigation.
Astrology. R: Calendar. A: Navigation, Meteoric iron, Lore of Heavens.
Navigation. R: Sailing, Writing, Astrology. A: Astronomy.
Astronomy. R: Navigation. A: 0.

Government line:

Spoiler :

Lordship. R: Military discipline. A: Currency, Feudalism.
Tyranny. R: Military discipline. A: Feudalism, Fanaticism.
Feudalism. R: Lordship OR Tyranny. A: Guilds, Tournaments.
Civil service. R: Currency, literacy. A: Guilds, advanced engineering, imperial roads, lore of shadows.

Religion line:

Spoiler :

Ceremonial burial. R: Ancient lore. A: Priesthood, Eternal Life, lore of death.
Philosophy. R: Ancient lore. A: Words of Salvation, Corruption of chaos, Priesthood, Alchemy.
Words of Salvation. R: Warfare AND Philosophy. A: Lore of Light.
Corruption of Chaos. R: Philosophy AND raw magic. A: Bloodlust of Khorne, Gifts of the Plague one, Lore of Change, Slaanesh's pleasures.
Eternal life. R: Philosophy AND ceremonial burial. A: Necromancy.
Priesthood. R: Philosophy AND ceremonial burial. A: Literacy, fanaticism.
Fanaticism. R: Priesthood AND Tyranny. A: Advanced doctrines 1.

Education line:

Spoiler :

Writing. R: Ancient lore. A: Literacy, navigation, Winds of magic.
Literacy. R: Writing AND priesthood. A: Education.
Education. R: Literacy. A: Arcane Lore.

Elemental magic line:

Spoiler :

Elemental magic. R: Raw magic AND nature lore. A: Master of Fire, Master of Air, Master of Water, Master of Earth.
Master of Fire. R: Elemental magic. A: Elemental mastery.
Master of Air. R: Elemental magic. A: Elemental mastery.
Master of Water. R: Elemental magic. A: Elemental mastery.
Master of Earth. R: Elemental magic. A: Elemental mastery.
Elemental Mastery. R: (Master of Air OR Master of Fire OR Master of Water OR Master of Earth.) AND tracking.

Winds of magic line:

Spoiler :

Winds of magic. R: Raw magic AND writing. A: Lore of death, lore of fire, lore of shadow, lore of metal, lore of beasts, lore of light, lore of life, lore of heavens, arcane lore.
Lore of death. R: ceremonial burial AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of fire. R: Literacy AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of Shadow. R: Civil service AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of beasts. R: monster taming AND winds of magic. A: 0.
LOre of metal. R: alchemy AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of life. R: nature lore AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of light. R: words of salvation AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of heavens. R: astrology AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Arcane lore. Req: Winds of magic AND education. A: 0.

Chaos line:

Spoiler :

Bloodlust of khorne. R: Corruption of chaos. A: Chaos incursion.
Gifts of the plagued one. R: Corruption of chaos. A: Chaos incursion.
Lore of change. R: Corruption of chaos. A: Chaos incursion.
Slaanesh's pleasures. R: Corruption of chaos. A: Chaos incursion.
Chaos incursion. R: Bloodlust of khorne OR Gifts of the plagued one OR Lore of change OR Slaanesh's pleasures. A: End times.
End times. R: Bloodlust of khorne. A: 0.

Other Magic line:

Spoiler :

Raw magic. R: 0. A: winds of magic, elemental magic, lore of athel loren, high magic, dark magic, necromancy, WAAGH!, magic of the horned rat, gut magic, magic of the old ones.
Lore of athel lore. R: Raw magic AND nature lore. A: 0.
High magic. R: Raw magic. A: 0.
Dark magic. R: Raw magic. A: 0.
Necromancy. R: Raw magic AND eternal life. A: Arcane mastery.
WAAGH! R: raw magic. A: Arcane mastery.
MAgic of the horned rat. R: raw magic. A: Arcane mastery.
Gut magic. R: raw magic. A: arcane mastery.
Magic of the old ones. R: raw magic. A: arcane mastery.
Arcane mastery. R: Necromancy OR WAAGH! OR MAgic of the horned rat. OR Gut magic OR Magic of the old ones. A: 0.

Future tech line:

Spoiler :

Advanced doctrines 1. Requires: Military tradition tech, requires fanaticism tech, requires engineering tech,
Advanced doctrines 2. Requires advanced doctrines 1 tech.
Advanced doctrines 3. Requires advanced doctrines 2 tech.

 

[Ajidica]

I'm assuming the mod begins late in the Third Age, around the time of the War of the Ring (since you included Rohan)?
I personaly wouldn't have tech research, but have everything be based around city development (I don't know how good the AI is at knowing a building has to be built before a unit can be made, so techs could be used in a very basic form). For example, Rohan can build every sort of unit from the start, but they need a certain building to do it. Rohan Spears could be build anywhere, but to build Riddermark Spears or Riders of the Kings House, you would need higher levels of barracks or stables.
Technological research doesn't seem to occur in Middle Earth, if anything, it is going backwards. For example, the Gondorians have lost the secret to the impregnable Numenorian walls, such as the Orthanc or the Othram (outer wall of Minas Tirith).

Also, magic was very subdued in the Third Age (even in the First Age magic was rarely flashy. I think the flashiest piece of magic was the barrier around Doriath which was made by Thingols Maia wife) so I don't think being able to research better spells, like in FfH would be very accurate.

That all said, feel free to take your mod in whatever direction you feel like. It would be nice to finaly see a Middle Earth mod get made.

 

[The Little One]

I'm assuming the mod begins late in the Third Age, around the time of the War of the Ring (since you included Rohan)?
I personaly wouldn't have tech research, but have everything be based around city development (I don't know how good the AI is at knowing a building has to be built before a unit can be made, so techs could be used in a very basic form). For example, Rohan can build every sort of unit from the start, but they need a certain building to do it. Rohan Spears could be build anywhere, but to build Riddermark Spears or Riders of the Kings House, you would need higher levels of barracks or stables.
Technological research doesn't seem to occur in Middle Earth, if anything, it is going backwards. For example, the Gondorians have lost the secret to the impregnable Numenorian walls, such as the Orthanc or the Othram (outer wall of Minas Tirith).

Also, magic was very subdued in the Third Age (even in the First Age magic was rarely flashy. I think the flashiest piece of magic was the barrier around Doriath which was made by Thingols Maia wife) so I don't think being able to research better spells, like in FfH would be very accurate.

That all said, feel free to take your mod in whatever direction you feel like. It would be nice to finaly see a Middle Earth mod get made.

Well at first I'm, just making Civs (albeit quite a lot of them, easily enough to play a game with just LOTR civs) and if that works out well I'll think about total conversion. Rohan is a test to make sure I'm doing it right, as I thought it should be fairly easy to make. It will be out probably within a week

 

[Ahriman]

I personaly wouldn't have tech research, but have everything be based around city development (I don't know how good the AI is at knowing a building has to be built before a unit can be made, so techs could be used in a very basic form). For example, Rohan can build every sort of unit from the start, but they need a certain building to do it. Rohan Spears could be build anywhere, but to build Riddermark Spears or Riders of the Kings House, you would need higher levels of barracks or stables.
Technological research doesn't seem to occur in Middle Earth, if anything, it is going backwards. For example, the Gondorians have lost the secret to the impregnable Numenorian walls, such as the Orthanc or the Othram (outer wall of Minas Tirith).

Techs are a pretty core part of Civ. Techs don't have to represent technology in the literal sense, it could just be different ways of choosing how to specialize your civ.

I'd keep away from a building requirement system, because the AI is going to be really bad at managing such a system, and because it means that losing a city even temporarily is a massive loss, because your buildings get destroyed.