Civ 5: Civilizations/Leaders Wanted!

[Viregel]

Ok, I got an idea:

Tayrona

Leader: Tacancique

Capital: Nabusimake

Unique Ability: Aluna's blessing:
Improvements on forests have halfed maintenance cost
Improvements on water generate +1
Receive a settler after lose a city

Unique Unit: Manicato: replaces Rifleman

+50% combat bonus vs. cities
Ignores terrain cost

Unique Improvement: Huka:

defensive bonus 25%
+1
+1
Can only be built on hills

Couple of things that I spotted. Firstly, getting a free setter after you lose a city might be slightly OP, but the half forest maintenance cost is already weak compared to the Inca. The Manicato is good, as the 50% bonus would let it play a more active part in taking cities. Also, the Huka is nerfed by the Kasbah. I'd revamp the UA slightly, making sure that the free settler isn't too OP, and add some more features to the Huka. The only other problem that I can think of is that the civ lacks a victory type that it is going for. I'd say that Cultural is the best bet, judging by your general design, but it's up to you how it plays out.

 

[Zipa_DH]

Couple of things that I spotted. Firstly, getting a free setter after you lose a city might be slightly OP, but the half forest maintenance cost is already weak compared to the Inca. The Manicato is good, as the 50% bonus would let it play a more active part in taking cities. Also, the Huka is nerfed by the Kasbah. I'd revamp the UA slightly, making sure that the free settler isn't too OP, and add some more features to the Huka. The only other problem that I can think of is that the civ lacks a victory type that it is going for. I'd say that Cultural is the best bet, judging by your general design, but it's up to you how it plays out.

Ok, thanks for the response.

Some changes:

UA: Improvements on forests and jungles have no maintanence cost
Receive a settler for each 3 cities you lose
Improvements on water generate +1

Huka:
defensive bonus 25%
+2
+1
+1
+1 tourism after research archaeology

I wanted to focus Tayrona in culture and expansion, but not too much in domination, I thought in Manicatos and the free settler to get a better defense against warmongers

 

[Viregel]

Ok, thanks for the response.

Some changes:

UA: Improvements on forests and jungles have no maintanence cost
Receive a settler for each 3 cities you lose
Improvements on water generate +1

Huka:
defensive bonus 25%
+2
+1
+1
+1 tourism after research archaeology

I wanted to focus Tayrona in culture and expansion, but not too much in domination, I thought in Manicatos and the free settler to get a better defense against warmongers

It's looking pretty good now. The only things that I would point out is that a free settler when you lose a city mightn't be OP, but I would get a general opinion on that. Sorry for not fully clarifying that on the last post. Also, the Huka will yield 1 tourism once you have Hotels, so you don't need to put that in. Nice work!

 

[Zipa_DH]

It's looking pretty good now. The only things that I would point out is that a free settler when you lose a city mightn't be OP, but I would get a general opinion on that. Sorry for not fully clarifying that on the last post. Also, the Huka will yield 1 tourism once you have Hotels, so you don't need to put that in. Nice work!

Yeah, I forgot that, however, I'd like to Huka would have some cultural bonus

 

[phaethon16]

I'm not sure that you would normally have Tourism as a tile yield, so I decided to go straight for a Culture bonus. Here's my new design, which

Leader: Kenneth MacAlpine

Capital City: Edinburgh

UA: Flower of Scotland
Great Works of Writing produce +5 :c5Tourism: Tourism. Gain a free Great Writer at the discovery of Printing Press.

UU: Jacobite
Replaces Musketman. Has a 20% Combat Bonus in friendly territory and tiles with hills.

UI: Kirk
Available at Theology. Can only be built on Costal or Hill tiles. Gives +1 faith, +2 if it is built on a costal tile. Produces +2 culture for every Great Work of Writing in the city it is worked by.

This is good, any other changes aren't really necessary.

 

[phaethon16]

To Zipa DH, I don't think the settler for every lost city is that OP, I just think it's undesirable. All it does is help you recover from defeat, rather than giving you a clear advantage. For the Manicato, it's a little OP because the combat bonus vs cities is a lot, so the no terrain cost might be too much. UI should really only have two yields, ans since culture UI produce tourism anyway with hotels, you could take the tourism yield out, without really changing its affect. Weird thing is though, Hukas are hill UI, but the UA gives free maintenance to forests and jungles, and even though you have an aggressive UU, your UI gives a defensive bonus. Those sort of things make the civ seem incohesive. Last thing, back to the UA, I would advise scrapping the last part of it, and replacing it with a clear, decisive advantage. Otherwise all that part does is keep ypu going, rather than winning.

 

[Zipa_DH]

To Zipa DH, I don't think the settler for every lost city is that OP, I just think it's undesirable. All it does is help you recover from defeat, rather than giving you a clear advantage. For the Manicato, it's a little OP because the combat bonus vs cities is a lot, so the no terrain cost might be too much. UI should really only have two yields, ans since culture UI produce tourism anyway with hotels, you could take the tourism yield out, without really changing its affect. Weird thing is though, Hukas are hill UI, but the UA gives free maintenance to forests and jungles, and even though you have an aggressive UU, your UI gives a defensive bonus. Those sort of things make the civ seem incohesive. Last thing, back to the UA, I would advise scrapping the last part of it, and replacing it with a clear, decisive advantage. Otherwise all that part does is keep ypu going, rather than winning.

That's precisely what I want, a way to quick recovery instead to an easier way to conquer other civs. Tayronas are supposed to be a strong defenders but a weak attackers, since they weren't completely conquered, just displaced. Also, their culture is distinctive and have a interesting beliefs.

Ok, what about this?:

UA: free maintenance to forest and jungle
Receive a settler each 2 cities you lost
City connections and trade routes generates +2

Manicato: ignores terrain costs
+25% combat bonus in friendly territory
Cover I

Huka: defensive bonus 50%
+2
+2
Can only be built on forests

 

[phaethon16]

That's fine; it's a lot more cohesive now, and it's more balanced.

 

[Viregel]

I was thinking about new "Pro" civs, and I came up with an idea for founding a religion on Turn 0, but you wouldn't have a Settler, so there would be some belief to compensate. Eventually, you would have to gain a territory to claim as yours. I had the Hebrews in mind for this, but I don't think that it's a perfect match (and the founding of the religion is about 2000 years off). I really don't know how this would play out, but it could be an interesting "super-religious" civ.

 

[phaethon16]

So, I was looking through page 1, and realized that the Merina civ is listed, but has no info. So, here's what I propose.

Merina
Capital: Antananarivo
Leader: Radama I
UA: Conditional Isolationism. Establishing a trade route with another civ lets you use their technology to upgrade your units in the city with the trade route to that civ. Establishing trade routes with other civs does not increase their tourism output to you.
UB: Rova. Replaces castle. If built in a city without a courthouse, +4 and +2. If built in a city with a courthouse, the courthouse has no maintenance and +2.
UU: Foloalindahy. Replaces swordsman. Receives flanking bonus from two tiles away.

 

[Viregel]

So, I was looking through page 1, and realized that the Merina civ is listed, but has no info. So, here's what I propose.

Merina
Capital: Antananarivo
Leader: Radama I
UA: Conditional Isolationism. Establishing a trade route with another civ lets you use their technology to upgrade your units in the city with the trade route to that civ. Establishing trade routes with other civs does not increase their tourism output to you.
UB: Rova. Replaces castle. If built in a city without a courthouse, +4 and +2. If built in a city with a courthouse, the courthouse has no maintenance and +2.
UU: Foloalindahy. Replaces swordsman. Receives flanking bonus from two tiles away.

I cannot think of any way to improve this, other than I don't think that Trade Routes have any effect on Tourism. (I'm probably wrong, and if not, that should be a feature) You might want to check that and revamp the UA if you need to.

 

[phaethon16]

Trade routes boost tourism output by 25% to the civ you have the trade route with. Thanks! Have you decided what the pro-religion ability would look like yet? It's an interesting suggestion, and I look forward to seeing what it works out to be.

 

[Viregel]

Trade routes boost tourism output by 25% to the civ you have the trade route with. Thanks! Have you decided what the pro-religion ability would look like yet? It's an interesting suggestion, and I look forward to seeing what it works out to be.

Thanks for that clarification on the UA. Here's my latest go at the pro-civ:

UA: Promised Land
Has no free settler at the start of the game, but may start a religion on the first turn. Gains a free belief that allows them to capture a city (that isn't a capital) that is following their religion, up to three times. Great Prophets are earned 25% faster.

UU: ?
Replaces Warrior. Can construct a UI up to three times inside another player's territory that spreads their religion. May enter rival land without open border treaties.

UB: Synagogue
Replaces Temple.

*I'll finish later*

 

[awesome]

Maybe they should have the synagogue be the ui you mentioned in the uu? That would mean it wouldn't replace the temple, but that's okay. Would they be able to use that belief on city-states, too? Because that would mean you might actually be able to have Jerusalem as the Hebrew capital, which would be fitting. You could even make an achievement out of it.

 

[steveg700]

Thanks for that clarification on the UA. Here's my latest go at the pro-civ:

UA: Promised Land
Has no free settler at the start of the game, but may start a religion on the first turn.

Free settler? Is that granted by a certain difficulty setting?

How about no settlers? Gaining super-religion benefits that trump what Byzantium gets is reasonable if you're confined to one city. Your game then becomes about defense while spreading your religion aggressively. Of course, other civ's with your own religion may get mad and try to take you out. Why, you might even wind up with enemies of another faith on all sides of your tiny, isolated civ. Might wanna think about getting a strong ally on your side. A superpower, even.

 

[Viregel]

Maybe they should have the synagogue be the ui you mentioned in the uu? That would mean it wouldn't replace the temple, but that's okay. Would they be able to use that belief on city-states, too? Because that would mean you might actually be able to have Jerusalem as the Hebrew capital, which would be fitting. You could even make an achievement out of it.

The Synagouge UI does makes sense. I was considering letting them take city-states, but there's too much overlap already with Austria and Venice. The Hebrews would want to grab some cities, then build a settler and found Jerusalem, their capital.

Free settler? Is that granted by a certain difficulty setting?

How about no settlers? Gaining super-religion benefits that trump what Byzantium gets is reasonable if you're confined to one city. Your game then becomes about defense while spreading your religion aggressively. Of course, other civ's with your own religion may get mad and try to take you out. Why, you might even wind up with enemies of another faith on all sides of your tiny, isolated civ. Might wanna think about getting a strong ally on your side. A superpower, even.

No settlers is what I meant. Sorry for not clarifying that. I'm not sure how they would work out in the late game, when Religion is turned off. Maybe they still get to found a religion?

Thanks to everybody for the feedback. I will try to finish it soon.

 

[awesome]

Yeah, the overlap point is true. Either way, obtaining Jerusalem by any means would be achievement worthy. You just couldn't do it with the belief unless someone else captures it.

 

[steveg700]

Like I was saying with Vietnam, you can't beat yourself up about overlap. Just have to find a variation. Heck, if the designers beat themselves on overlap, we wouldn't have both Venice and Austria able to flip city-states. We wouldn't have battering rams and siege towers that are almost identical in form and function.

Of course, buying out or subverting CS's really isn't thematic for Israel anyways, and could actually be construed negatively by those looking for sensationalism. You could take a variation of my Israel idea and apply it so that instead of national wonders accruing those bonuses, they apply for each city converted to Israel's religion.

 

[Viregel]

There's one thing that I want to find out from the general community-would it be better for the Hebrews to only be able to take pre-founded cities, or should they be able to develop cities later in the game? I will take that into account when finalising it. Firstly, I don't want to give the Hebrews the ability to occupy city-states with the UA. I still think that two civilizations is enough to have a shared component. There was a lot of speculation of an Austria revamp, due to the overlap, and even though Venice and Austria are quite different. Using steveg700's suggestion, I've got a new design here:

UA: Promised Land.
Has no free settler at the start of the game, but may start a religion on the first turn. Gains a free belief that allows them to capture a city (that isn't a capital) that is following their religion, up to three times. +2 science, culture, faith, gold, happiness and city strength in the capital for every city following your religion.

UU: Maccabee
Replaces Warrior. Can construct a Synagogue inside another player's territory that spreads their religion. May enter rival land without open border treaties.

UI: Synagogue
May only be built by a Maccabee or a Worker (Only once Theology is researched). Grants +2 faith when worked, and gives +15 (Subject to change) religious pressure from the Hebrew's religion.

So, what do you all think? The preferred playstyle for them would be to start a religion, spread it to other civilizations with the Synagogue/Maccabee, grab a city and go from there. The only things to sort out are balance issues (Especially the religious pressure from the Synagogue) and if they should be able to found cities or not. If they can, they could easily get some cities, found the capital, and already get a strong bonus from steveg700's suggestion. I'm not sure if that will be OP, but as I said, there are numerous balance issues.

(Note: Credit will be given to those who helped in the final post. Awesome and paetheon16, I'm not missing you out )

 

[phaethon16]

Considering how widely a religion can spread, I think the yields in the capital for each city following the religion might be OP, especially considering that your religion would be founded much earlier than all others. Aside from that balance aspect, I like the ideas and think this is a great civ design.