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[CIV 5 Issues] - The complete list

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Bug Reports' started by poncratias, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. Rossignol

    Rossignol Chieftain

    Feb 6, 2008
    On the plus side, Poncratius, I'd guess that the bulk of the bugs and gripes are in by now.

    That said....I suppose I should throw my match onto the bonfire of posts and list a few things as well. Most, if not all, of these items have been mentioned by others as well. I've been playing the series since the first one, in the days of overnight sessions in the college computer lab. While I know that fundamentally there will be some diminishing returns on a new Civ for me because of that (new versions can never be a truly 'new' game and shouldn't be), this is still the first Civ that actually felt like a step back. It's by no means all bad, and had I never played a Civ game before, I'd probably like V quite a bit better. This one is enormous in size, requires a fairly powerful machine to run well, yet arguably offers less than any prior Civ in terms of the game itself.

    A list of my personal issues with the game, not in any particular order, follows. Some of these many others may agree with, some I may be alone on. Some of these, like 1upt aren't all bad, but are lacking in something.

    1) Starting up. The first* hint that things might not be so great. I know there's only so many ways that water and land can be represented, but 3 vague options plus an Earth map seems pretty darned limited. The advanced setup helps a bit, but it's just as vague and clunky as it was in IV. Still, these are minor issues in the grand scheme.
    (* looking back, the 'first' hint would be 2 extra click boxes before starting up as the game can't seem to remember DirectX selection)

    2) AI. There's little I can say about the bad AI that hasn't been said in depth, save to add one anecdote that combines several of the many known issues.
    Spoiler :
    Fairly early in my first campaign I was on a relatively narrow landmass with the Arabian Empire to the north. Despite having plenty of room to expand in the north, the AI chose to put a city to my south, hemming me in. In itself, not a bad move for limiting an opponent's growth and one I could respect, but in the AI's hands it was just giving itself enough rope to hang itself. A short while after founding that city, the Arabs up and declared war on me and moved into my lands with a fairly strong army. Much stronger than I could field, but the AI basically threw the units away with melee range archers, etc. Not just the military units either, but the AI decided it was the best time to send unescorted workers through enemy territory to that southern city. It did this 3 turns in a row. Not sure if it would have kept doing this as the AI completely gave up after the failed attack, giving me all but 2 cities (the capital and that unconnected southern city), all of its gold, a sizable per turn cash amount, resources and the keys to the princess' chastity belt.

    3) 1UPT. A decent enough idea, and a good alternative to stacks of doom, at least in theory. Unfortunately the AI is pretty much completely incapable of working with it. In addition it fails the player as well with increased micromanagement moving units and giving new orders to units whose go-to pathing broke due to another unit crossing its path. I think short stacks (2-3 units) would have been a better choice, eliminating SoDs as well as many of the more annoying quirks of 1UPT.

    4) Graphics. Much has been hyped about the pixel counts and improved graphics, but those are things that I feel are secondary to this type of game. Clarity is much more important and too many things are vague or tough to make out even at high resolutions. Some nearly-built or slightly-damaged improvements such as trading posts look nearly identical to a complete one. I'd far rather have a lower resolution but clear, easy to scan map then one that's technically higher resolution but hard to read at a glance, especially with such limited zooming. For that matter, I'm not impressed with the tile graphics even outside of the Civ setting. Crayonish roads and the lifeless ugly, ugly static watercolor-blob forests. Fishing boats that cast their nets inland and lighthouses are apparently built on the ocean surface at times. The units and leader screens generally look nice, as do some parts of the map, including the cities, but clarity is much more important.

    5) City balance. This is the only Civ game that feels hostile to the builder playstyle. Roads that actually hurt your civilization financially. Even a 10 city civilization with all financial buildings, minimal army, minimal road structure and decent trade can't stay in the black if the cities are built up. Not that a large percentage of the buildings are even worth building. Unfortunately, if you decide that you want to get rid of one, too bad because....

    5a) You're stuck with it. Can't destroy buildings. Can't raze captured city-states or capitals. Can't change social policies.

    6) Too many things removed. Religion, espionage, most diplomacy and trade options, corporations, sliders. Even if some of these were imperfectly realized before, simply yanking them out isn't an improvement. Civics replaced by the weaksauce Social Policies. (best described by another as 'yay, my civ gained another level')

    7) Automation. Handy only if you want all of your improvements destroyed and replaced by trading posts or explorers who seem go out of their way to enter the territory of City-States, thereby angering them.

    8) Diplomacy. Does it actually exist or is it just random? If i can grit my teeth through another game I think I'll just flip a coin for responses. I don't think it'll make a difference. City-states are a nice idea, but the diplomatic implementation is as wooden and generic as with the identical-seeming nation-states.

    9) End turn. When religion, meaningful diplomacy, corporations, espionage, and the incentive to build are removed, unless actively at war, too many turns are simply clicking end turn and waiting to do it again. It makes too much of the game feel like the worst part of IV, namely the anticlimactic post-launch waiting for the ship to reach AC.

    10) Clumsy interface. Whether it's the convoluted way to reach a city's build queue or badly presented information, such as resource or diplomatic reports, the interface just isn't very friendly.

    11) Ambience. In addition to the gameplay itself, I've always loved the little things about the series that helped with the immersion. Music that fit the era, world wonder movies, and most of all, the recap at the end. This current ending with the one screen and a few tabs is pathetic. I half expected the text to end with "but the princess is in another castle."

    Wow, that was wordy. In the final analysis, I suppose that the franchise is just another victim of consolization, much like the Total War series. (As an aside, I love Civ's dropdown alerts each turn...straight out of the TW games) Civ V is not a bad game in and of itself, and did improve on some issues from IV, but overall it's dumbed down and feels too much like it was rushed out the door with a "screw 'em, it's good enough...we'll patch it later...maybe" attitude. Still, I would have probably mostly enjoyed it had I never played any Civs before.

    On the plus side, at least it wasn't a disappointing remake of the greatest 'Civ' game, Alpha Centauri.

    Thanks for your patience in reading a too-long post.
  2. helpless_writer

    helpless_writer Warlord

    Dec 15, 2006
    United States
    United Nations needs to return to its former glory
  3. tinydrake

    tinydrake Chieftain

    Dec 17, 2009
    Not sure if this was already said or not, but horsemen, (especially companion cavalry), are overpowered. It's a nice change from cIV to actually be using mounted units for once, but they really need to make them more balanced. (I think there is a thread on this)

    - Diplomacy should be improved,- even if you don't want to use solid numbers like in cIV, at least let there be conversation options such as "Why do you suddenly hate me so much?). And please explain the secrecy/cooperation pacts in the civilopedia!
  4. Mystere

    Mystere Chieftain

    Nov 5, 2005
    Some of these points may have been mentioned before so excuse me if I state the obvious. Also, I am working out of the back of my head here so it is possble I state something that is infact not true. If so please let me know.

    1) Helicopter gunships can capture cities, even tho they have a promotion which states otherwise. This is particulairy powerful due to their high movement points which allows them to effectively fly around defences.

    2) AA guns only target aircraft not helicopters when they move in range. In the game the helicopter unit is not a flying unit but a hoovering unit but I think AA guns should intercept them as well. It seems strange a helicopter can attack a unit next to an AA gun without fear of AA fire.

    3) AA guns only intercept when the target of the mission is within their range not when the path leads over them and back. When an AA gun is placed at the front lines it should intercept planes flying over them and act like a screen for anything placed further behind your border. I know this might be hard to implement because at the moment you do not choose the exact path your air unit would take but this is something to think about.

    5) Mounted units should possibly upgrade to tanks as this is what modern day cavalry is. If I recal correctly mounted units have no upgrade path beyond lancer/cavalry.

    6) It might be a good idea to add a modern day unit and/or upgrade path for the scout unit type. Not so much combat wise, maybe make it civilian, but to be able to explore new landmasses in the late game with a more efficient unit. I find this lacking.

    7) Wonders often keep their work in progress look after they have been finished or have been build somewhere else. If you stop working a wonder and remove it from the cue and retart it later it also adds duplicates sometimes. A reload of the game fixes this.

    8) Building a city on some coast or hill hexes makes the game render only a few houses sometimes, even if the city grows big in size. A reload of the game can also fix this in some cases as it seems to redraw some map pieces (mountain styles change, rivers and roads and coastlines change shapes as well. The hex itself does not change, only the graphics).

    EDIT: More of a suggestion perhaps but just thought about it...

    9) Anti tank units should probably have the intercept option as well but in this case for tanks moving in range (possibly only just next to it). Making them a sort of ambush unit.
  5. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

    Jan 15, 2006
    I don't agree. Because the combat odds shown is easy but tedious to work out, it is something that shouldn't be hidden from the player "just because..". By your line of reasoning, you could argue that all combat odds should be removed, to make all of war a bit more of a thrill.
  6. Jediron

    Jediron Prince

    Jan 8, 2006
    I don't mind odds to be shown. I do mind odds that are right on the money; time and time again. I hardly if ever seen any surprises. Don't you think that's boring ?
    Not knowing something, is a "thrill" on its own. People scare, walking around a corner, bumping into someone. Walking in a straight line, there is no suprise, they can see the other person coming. By you line of reasoning, the AÏ just as well could give away the outcome of the game. Ow wait, that would not be exiting; is it ?
  7. MrFrien

    MrFrien Chieftain

    Oct 12, 2010
    I have not found these issues in the list so here goes.

    1. Recieved city when AI wanted peace (King mode). The AI went from not wanting peace to suddenly giving me a city and the last of one of thier ressources. They were not in war with anyone else and i was not threathining any of the remaining citys.
    2. When i recieved the city i made a puppet of it. However i could not complete my turn since i was notified the city needed to have some production set, and i could not do that. I had to annex the city to continue. Reloading game has not effect.
    3. One of the AIs declared war while they recieved a ressource for 30 turns. I can no longer use that resource (I have 3 pearls, one is given to another AI but i only have 1 remaining). Giving the same ressource to the AI have no effect (I just loose it as normally)
    4. As part of a trade the ai got peace and a ressource. After 10 (and 30) turns i can still not declare way on them. I am now in constant state of peace. Funny enough issue 3 and 4 was both with England. But seperate games
  8. poncratias

    poncratias Prince

    Feb 9, 2010

    what's left to say: if somebody feels like updating the list with all the new stuff in this thread himself, just send the updated list to me and i'll edit it thankfully in!
  9. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

    Jan 15, 2006
    Your complaint is aimed at the combat mechanics, not the combat odds display. The combat odds that are shown to you have absolutely no effect on what the outcome would be. They are only there to predict the outcome, just like the odds on a horse winning a race. It's not as if a horse is more or less likely to win the race if one bookie decides to drastically change the odds he's paying. ;)

    Your attempt at saying what my line or reasoning would say is just silly. Please don't do that, because you seemed to have missed the point I was making.
  10. Jediron

    Jediron Prince

    Jan 8, 2006
    Yeah, afcourse they only there to predict the outcome; therefor they are called ODDs, won't you agree ? And no, once you have commanded the order to strike, there's nothing you can do to wait for the result. Btw; odds, who are most of the time "spot on". Too much to my liking.

    So if i understand you correctly, you would like to have some influance at the outcome ?
    Because now i am really clueless what you were trying to say.

    But one thing i do know is; the current fighting is quite boring.
  11. oynaz

    oynaz Prince

    Dec 18, 2005
    Brøndby, Denmark
    This way, they can occupy the same hexes as their escorts, thus avoiding the ludicrous situation of a Giant Death Robot being sunk by a couple of pirates in a rowboat.

    Moderator Action: Threads merged. Looks like it belongs here.
  12. OTAKUjbski

    OTAKUjbski TK421

    Mar 4, 2007
    not at my post
    I would like to have something added to 2. AI & Unit behaviour:

    * Puppet cities cannot build units yet prioritize building Barracks, Armory, Forge & Military Academy
  13. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

    Apr 27, 2004
    New Zealand
    Buildings and wonders in general (some more than others) really need to get a good boost overall. Right now there are too many buildings and wonders (I would argue more than half) that leave you worse off for having invested the effort in constructing them. That doesn't make any kind of sense.

    The simple truth is that while the warmonger side of the game has been substantially improved (forgetting for a moment the abysmal AI), the builder side of the game seems to have been forgotten a bit. The designers should be aware by now of the fact that the builder side of a Civilization game is supposed to be just as fun as the warmonger side (if not more so).

    The proof is in the "Always Peace" option. In Civ4 it provided for an awesome and unique gameplay experience. In Civ5, it's fairly plain and even boring. Something needs to be done here.
  14. Jim Bro

    Jim Bro Emperor of Quebec

    Oct 4, 2010
    NO RELIGIONS: let's face it, war is the face of religions (and capitalism but mostly religions). a lot of people are complainging that in CIV4, it just made diplomacy a pain in the ass but I'm sorry, world leaders have to deal with it even today. if you take a slight look at diplomacy nowadays, islamic countries are way more near each other than with other countries (the same with countries of the same faith). plus there is no diplomacy points in CIV5 so what is the point to supress this aspect anyways? I agree that Firaxis probably wanted to give more freedom in relation-making but to this extent?

    NO GOVERNMENTS: The social policies are OK but... they could have been added to your government. we all now realize there is no more revolution-considering and anarchy in the game :(

    NO % GOLD/SCIENCE: not a big deal but in CIV 5 you can't halt your science for a few turns because you want to cash in.. to upgrade your units in time of war. you have to think more in advance with your money and you have less moves that you can do in order to have quick gold. not very cool.


    NO SCENARIOS: ?? A lot of people are ignoring this but.. come on. they should have released the game 3 months later and put a little more effort on it.

    NO 2 PLAYERS-ON-THE-SAME-COMPUTER: again, why? It was kind of complicated to play that way in CIV4 but at least we could. now with CIV5 you have to log on Steam that bugs you all the time with its adverts and of course, in these times of consumerism, you now need two computers if you want to play with a friend. BAD.

    NO MAP EDITOR: this doesn't bother me that much but still we can't pretend CIV5 is very user-friendly unless you say it is less complicated.

    BAD ROAD-MAPPING: A lot of bugs. you have to click twice quite often to send something outhere for some reasons but it's probably due to a lot of loading.

    In short, this game could have been a masterpiece and for someone who paid 50$ and installed a cracked version of windows 7 to run it on a IMAC, the more I play the more I think I wasted my time and should have waited until it comes on the MAC. however, i have to admit that like an addict, I HAD to buy it regardless of it's not-so-greatness.

    Expansions or patches please?
  15. luciol

    luciol Chieftain

    Sep 22, 2010
    Regarding military City States :

    - They can give you a scout or a lancer when you're in 2000 AD
    - They can give you a GDR, I don't think this unit should be ramdomly offered.
  16. SMA333M

    SMA333M Warlord

    Jul 21, 2003
    > Airplanes should have the option "Fortify until healed"
  17. SemperFi2382

    SemperFi2382 Mitten Marauder

    Nov 10, 2003
    Michigan, USA
    Wait, there is no Hotseat in Civ V? My wife and I play Hotseat almost exclusively in the previous iterations. So, if that is true, then sadly I won't be buying Civ V.

    On a side note (assuming there really is no Hotseat), how do you release a Turn Based Strategy game without a Hotseat? Seriously, I can't think of any TBS games that don't have that kind of feature save for Total War games, but for the obvious reasons (Battles are in Real Time for those unfamiliar with the series). :confused:
  18. nascarfan999

    nascarfan999 Chieftain

    Oct 3, 2010
    To my knowledge, it has been said hotseat is coming, it just was not included in the initial release (another sign this game was way too rushed to retail). You should be able to poke around the site and find better info on it though.
  19. jpinard

    jpinard Martian

    Jan 18, 2002
    Enceladus, Saturn
    Massive issue I'm seeing in my current FoW disabled sim game. The worker AI are ignoring luxury, food, & strategic resources about 25% of the time. For instance they could improve a cow right next to the city, but instead put a farm on a plain or grassland. I see AI civs who need Iron and they've got unimproved Iron resources. Tons of dye resources go unimproved.

    Also, there are Civs building cities in the middle of a desert. For no reason other than spamming it's 10-15th city. They will sometimes do this in a crowded area with no hope of making a city that can grow beyond a population of 2.
  20. Phorever Phalanx

    Phorever Phalanx Chieftain

    Aug 15, 2001
    IL, USA
    In the strategic view, you can't select units inside cities by clicking their symbol.

    For city production, clicking above or below the scrollbar jumps to the top or bottom, not just a page up or down.

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