[NFP] Civ 6 World Wonder for Domination Victories Elimination Thread

[Francel]

Alhambra (30)
Colosseum (40) (39+1) - Culture and amenities mitigate the need for TS and war weariness; good if you can get it!
Forbidden City (31)
Kilwa Kisiwani (38)
Temple of Artemis (37)
Terracotta Army (37) (40-3) - It's a one-time deal, whereas the others provide lasting benefits. If you are on a large map and/or have a long game, I think the others are better (TA is good, but they can't all come out on top)

 

[lilnev!]

Alhambra (30)
Colosseum (40)
Forbidden City (28)(31-3) I think both of the extra policy cards are over-rated at this point. Yes, an extra policy is nice, but it's expensive and comes late. I likely have an 8-policy govt, or soon will, by the time this is finished building. The marginal value of a ninth policy .... or three and a quarter bombards.
Kilwa Kisiwani (38)
Temple of Artemis (38)(37+1) This can bail out bad starts with too little food
Terracotta Army (37)

 

[leif erikson]

Alhambra (10)
Colosseum (20)
Forbidden City (8)
Kilwa Kisiwani (18)
Temple of Artemis (18)
Terracotta Army (17)

Moderator Action: It was requested that I remove 20 points from each remaining wonder to speed up the conclusion of this thread. It is done.

 

[CoconutTank]

Terracotta Army (18) (17 + 1) Bumping up what I think of as the definitive domination wonder. Conquering TA is nearly worthless, but building TA with a large army allows one to effectively clean house.

Colosseum (17) (20 - 3) Bringing Colo more in line with the remaining wonders. Having extra amenities is great for countering war weariness, but I think it's a little high where it is.

Alhambra (11)
Colosseum (17)
Forbidden City (8)
Kilwa Kisiwani (18)
Temple of Artemis (18)
Terracotta Army (18)

 

[Francel]

Alhambra (12) (11+1) - extra card slots are very strong imo and add lasting flexibility, as well as amenity and gg make this one excellent
Colosseum (17)
Forbidden City (8)
Kilwa Kisiwani (18)
Temple of Artemis (18)
Terracotta Army (15) (18-3) - as said before I don’t think it is strong as what’s left, mainly because it is one time thing and you can get promotions and heal regardless; to me this is especially true if you play large, long games vs smaller shorter games, so I can see it as a matter of preference

 

[Baigan]

Alhambra (12)
Colosseum (17)
Forbidden City (8)
Kilwa Kisiwani (15)
Temple of Artemis (18)
Terracotta Army (16)

Terracotta Army (15+1): See below.
Kilwa Kisiwani (18-3): See below.

I view this as a subtraction problem. Consider the total value of the wonder (TV) and the value the wonder gives you for conquering it (CV). Subtracting CV from TV says something about the unique value of building the wonder. This subtraction is relevant because we can't consider the value of conquering. Let's look at the remaining wonders.

• Alhambra & Forbidden City: TV - CV = 0. By conquering, you enjoy all the benefits you'd have if you built them yourself. I have no incentive to build these if I know that the AI will.

• Terracotta Army: TV - CV = TV. In domination, the entire value of Terracotta Army is the one-time buff. You don't get that from conquering. Moreover, while I understand the argument that a one-time effect is weaker, building Terracotta Army seems analogous to a tempo play in a card game. The long-term value is what you get from the cities that would otherwise take longer to conquer.

• Colosseum & Temple of Artemis: TV - CV = big. The AI sucks at planning these. You get much more value building them yourself than conquering.

• Kilwa: TV - CV = small. You lose the envoys (who cares, you're eliminating CS competitors) and 15% of the difference between your best city and the city that built it. I'm happy to let the AI build this for me.

This is why Colosseum, Terracotta, and Temple are my top 3. Kilwa is the overall best wonder in the game, but there's less incentive to build it in a domination game. It should finish 4th in this thread, not 1st.

 

[Mr. Salt]

Alhambra (12)
Colosseum (17)
Forbidden City (9)
Kilwa Kisiwani (15)
Temple of Artemis (15)
Terracotta Army (16)

Nothing specifically to cite for these two, just a last gasp for the Forbidden City and putting the Temple of Artemis in its place. If I had it my way, I'd have a second downvote to use on Kilwa, because I think it drags behind a player-built ToA, but that'll have to wait for tomorrow.

 

[Vargas1]

Alhambra (12)
Colosseum (17)
Forbidden City (10)
Kilwa Kisiwani (15)
Temple of Artemis (15)
Terracotta Army (13)

Forbidden City (10) - I disagree that this wonder comes late. Printing is an obvious beeline in a domination game (prerequisite is a beeline itself for crossbows, plus the diplo visibility can give you or at least cancel out an advantage), the placement requirements are relatively easy so you can put in a high-production city, and add in a few chops or GE charges and this can get build in a hurry. Unless I'm rolling in culture from slaying everyone as Gorgo, I typically get to Printing well before I'm near getting to an 8-slot government.

Terracotta Army (13) - I acknowledge that this is a particularly subjective view of what is already a subjective exercise, but I've never found the extra promotion to be all that impactful. I don't generally go for super-fast domination victories, which means I'm not someone who just builds the basic infrastructure and then churns out a massive early army that's constantly at war. Maybe if I were I would feel differently about TA. But as it is, most domination games I've build it I end up getting a few units with a good promotion, but otherwise just get a bunch of 0 or 1 promotion units up to a promotion they would have ended up getting easily anyway. I think the only exception are games with Nubia (b/c of the extra exp for archers) or where I suze Kabul early - in those cases I can see TA being really helpful.

 

[greenOak]

Alhambra (12)
Colosseum (14) (17-3)
Forbidden City (10)
Kilwa Kisiwani (15)
Temple of Artemis (16) (15+1)
Terracotta Army (13)

Colosseum (-3) - A great wonder, but comes with the most opportunity cost of any other wonder on this list. It requires building a garbage district (at least at the time its built) and a garbage building at a time where you would rather be building up an army to rush an opponent before they get crossbows.

Temple of Artemis (+1) - With the exception of Terracotta Army, this is the wonder that you benefit the most from building for yourself. You usually don't settle as many cities in a pure domination game meaning your often struggling for space for districts in the early game. ToA solves this issue.

 

[Baigan]

Alhambra (9)
Colosseum (14)
Forbidden City (10)
Kilwa Kisiwani (15)
Temple of Artemis (16)
Terracotta Army (14)

Terracotta Army (13+1): It's wise to plan wars around breakpoints where your units are superior to your opponent's. This is called a timing push. Terracotta Army creates an opportunity for a timing push out of thin air.
Alhambra (12-3): Differences in tech placement, research cost, building cost, policy slots, and the wonders' other benefits make it a coinflip between this and Forbidden City. I'll keep it simple and say Wildcard slot > Military slot.

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Alhambra (9)
Colosseum (11) (14-3)
Forbidden City (11) (10+1)
Kilwa Kisiwani (15)
Temple of Artemis (16)
Terracotta Army (14)

Agree with poster a few above, Printing is a tech you'll want to rush for the extra combat strength; and you can easily chop out Forbidden City with Magnus or a Great Engineer and still have plenty of time to benefit from it.

Colosseum, on the other hand, takes far too much early-game investment at precisely the time you're meant to be building units. I don't think I've ever built it in a domination game; why would I use my chops on an Entertainment Complex, an Arena, and the wonder itself when I could chop out 5 or 6 units?

 

[pjotroos]

Alhambra (9)
Colosseum (8) [11-3] Thinking back to my usual domination games, I'd only really build it myself if I manage to conquer a city with Complex & Arena built in a convenient slot - but that's not massively different from just conquering it outright. As others have said, the benefits of it are huge, but so is the investment into building the whole thing from scratch, and if you fail to get it, it will really set you back.
Forbidden City (11)
Kilwa Kisiwani (15)
Temple of Artemis (16)
Terracotta Army (15) [14+1] Yes, it's a one off, but it's also an incredibly valuable one off that helps you snowball from there. If you know it's coming in the next couple of turns, you can be more aggressive with your attack, since there's a lot of free healing coming.

 

[Vargas1]

Alhambra (6)
Colosseum (8)
Forbidden City (12)
Kilwa Kisiwani (15)
Temple of Artemis (16)
Terracotta Army (15)

Forbidden City (12) - Policy cards are good for every game, and this wonder gives you the best one. Also seems to inexplicably be ignored by the AI (at least in my experience), so you'll be waiting a while if you wait to capture it.

Alhambra (6) - Honestly, at this point I wouldn't be mad about the top-6 finishing in any particular order. This one I think is a slight step below because it's not as impactful for domination as TA and it's not as good overall as the others remaining.

 

[enKage]

Alhambra (6)
Colosseum (8)
Forbidden City (12)
Kilwa Kisiwani (12)
Temple of Artemis (16)
Terracotta Army (16)

Terracota +1
If you don't build it, you lose the benefit. And it is upgrading remaining xbows to double shot and infantry to doublehit

Kilwa -3
In most cases when you build it, you don't benefit it too much, because it is hard at this stage have 2 suzereins of the same type, espacially as you are at war with some CSs losing their quests. Later when you secure those CSs by eliminating suzereins, you are so far ahead, you don't need it. Must have wonder for science and diplo victory, not must have for any other victories

 

[Baigan]

Alhambra (6)
Colosseum (8)
Forbidden City (12)
Kilwa Kisiwani (12)
Temple of Artemis (16)
Terracotta Army (16)

Colosseum (8+1): True, the investment to build this is a significant malus. Fortunately the AI doesn't tend to rush it. You can afford to wait for a place with lots of chops or for a time where you can gold-purchase the Arena.
Alhambra (6-3): Slightly worse than the remainder.

 

[TCBB]

Alhambra (3)
Colosseum (6) (9-3)
Forbidden City (12)
Kilwa Kisiwani (12)
Temple of Artemis (17) (16+1)
Terracotta Army (16)

Colosseum (9-3) Weighing in now that it’s closer to the end. I was considering Kilwa because I’m surprised it’s still here: by the time the 2xsuzerain bonus really gets going, you should probably have conquered two or three of your neighbours. But then again, Kilwa does unlock at Machinery, one of the most rush-able techs in a domination game. So that leaves Colosseum: the cost is simply too expensive, and god forbid the AI randomly decides to rush it leaving you with a useless entertainment complex.

Temple of Artemis (16+1) Probably doesn’t deserve to be winning, but what the heck. It’s my favourite wonder in the game: extra amenities and extra production (via the increased population) turn your capital /second city into a unit-creating behemoth. I build it in nearly every game

 

[Francel]

Alhambra (4) (3+1)
Colosseum (6)
Forbidden City (12)
Kilwa Kisiwani (12)
Temple of Artemis (17)
Terracotta Army (13) (16-3)

This will probably be my last vote since I don't want to bludgeon the horse, but I'll make my last argument and wax a bit philosophically. Firstly, I am not considering conquering the wonders, only building them. I thought that was the instruction of the OP, but I could have misinterpreted things. Obviously, if you conquer the wonders, you would only want to build wonders that benefit only or primarily the builder, such as terracotta army. If you assume you can't conquer the wonder, at least not in the immediate future (it's on another continent or something), and think purely in terms of what you would rather have in your empire, for me, I'll take Alhambra over Terracotta Army.

Why? I like things you can't do any other way. You can't get an extra military slot any other way. You can heal and promote your units. If you keep your units alive, they'll get promoted any way over the course of the game. You can use an apostle with chaplain promotion to expedite healing, or just fortify a few turns. There are useful military policy cards, to say nothing of Alhambra's other perks. Even having +1 amenity for garrisoned units, or +30% production to military/harbor districts, or +100% walls production, and later military science can be quite useful. If you are going pure units, you will probably want the cards that buff unit production, and won't have room for those other policies. Alhambra gives you more options and flexibility.

If you are on pangea, or facing only a few foes, I think the value of TA goes up, because you can snowball much more easily. If you are spread out and have lots of foes, I think the card is worth more, especially on higher difficulties. Having some extra promoted units won't seal the deal when the opponent has cavalry and culrassiers to your crossbows. Just my 2 cents!

Love the diversity of thought and opinion.

 

[Vargas1]

Alhambra (4)
Colosseum (6)
Forbidden City (12)
Kilwa Kisiwani (9)
Temple of Artemis (18)
Terracotta Army (13)

Temple of Artemis (18) - Its beauty lies in its simplicity - more housing, more food, more amenities=grow bigger and faster. It's early enough and on the way to everything else so you don't really get sidetracked going after it. And, the AI rarely seems to rush it. I just had a game where I hard-built it in my fifth city, on a different continent from my capital. That's an extreme example, but it's not uncommon to be able to build this well into the classical era, which means you can likely get it built in 10-12 turns without even chopping.

Kilwa Kisiwani (9) - Probably the best overall wonder, but not as super-strong for domination. By the time you get this built and get suzerainty over two of any given city-state type (if possible), you've likely already conquered several civs and are snowballing away. Full disclosure - I don't think I've ever built it when I've been suzerain over two or more military CS, so I don't know how impactful the empire-wide unit construction would be, but I find typically by Renaissance and beyond I'm buying most of my new units with faith or gold rather than hard-building anyway.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Alhambra (4)
Colosseum (6)
Forbidden City (12)
Kilwa Kisiwani (9)
Temple of Artemis (19) (18+1)
Terracotta Army (10) (13-3)

Temple of Artemis: Cheap but effective, this wonder has loose placement requirements, is unlocked by a tech domination players will beeline anyway, but isn't a huge production sink like other early wonders. It doesn't slow down your early game to crawl for a long-term investment. ToA gives you a benefit that is worthwhile right now.

Terracotta Army: I suppose this is going to be controversial, but in the spirit of playing devil's advocate, I want to present a different perspective to our beloved Terracotta Army. Are promotions nice? Undoubtedly. But the question is all about opportunity cost- could that production to make your existing units slightly stronger be better used in creating a crucial support unit? Maybe you're behind in techs and that production should be invested into a campus. Effectively, the time when the Terracotta Army is the correct choice is when the value given by the promotion exceeds that of just using the wonder's production cost to build more units or address some of your other needs. So, if it's only justified when you have a large existing army, then it's more of a "win more" wonder than anything. If the Terracotta Army is a good choice for you, then your army is already large enough to take down your neighbors. Granted, those Great General points are nice, too, but you could just as easily purchase some Encampment buildings to match or surpass it.

 

[Mr. Salt]

Alhambra (4)
Colosseum (7)
Forbidden City (12)
Kilwa Kisiwani (9)
Temple of Artemis (16)
Terracotta Army (10)

That the ToA is better than the Colosseum is inarguable. Is it good? Yes, better than some remaining wonders, but it is far from the best of them, and the Colosseum is one. In my experience, the extra Amenities are well worth the opportunity cost associated with the wonder, especially when the AI loves Entertainment Complexes as it does.