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Civ 6

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Pangaea, May 12, 2016.

  1. Skulbow

    Skulbow The Lonely Cyclist

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    I have played a lot more of Civ V than Civ IV and much prefer Civ V. I can't believe some of the negative comments about V compared to IV. It amuses me to hear a Civ IV player complaining about cartoony graphics. Just look at Civ IV... extremely cartoony!!

    And Civ IV being a deeper game than Civ V? Do you mean different? I hardly think Civ IV is deeper and harder to play than Civ V. Different mechanics maybe and different emphasis but hardly deeper. Don't kid yourselves. The thing I hate most of about Civ IV is the insane warfare mechanic of huge stacks of armies. Building and keeping large armies hardly costs anything in Civ IV.

    The tech tree in Civ V is more streamlined than Civ IV but they are actually very similar. Look at Beyond Earth because there is a different tech tree.!

    The higher levels in Civ IV cheat just as much as Civ V to give a competitive game.
     
  2. ringwraith18

    ringwraith18 Chieftain

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    I would guess that being on a board full of people who stuck with civ iv, you won't find many positive opinions on civ v, including from me.

    Honestly 1UPT is the one thing I can't get over. I have always enjoyed the military side of civ games, all the way from civ 2. 1UPT means the military/expansion side may as well not exist, sad to see civ vi carrying on in that direction.
     
  3. The7Sins

    The7Sins Hungry Burger

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    Exactly this above anything else. Warfare is what makes Civ great. Stacks of doom are FUN. 1UPT is unfun and it and the ranged combat is unrealistic (each tile\hex is about 50+ miles depending on map size no Archer ever can shoot arrows that far).

    I will not buy 6 for the same reason I did not buy 5 1UPT. Sadly once this computer dies I will probably be done with the game as I now play a very modded game and can not remember all the little tweaks I have done to various civs, units, or other little things. Also I do not want to spend another 30 hours building the perfect earth map I can reuse. I got bored to tears trying to build it.


    Well if we are gonna list our 5 most played games here are mine.

    1. Diablo 2 Lord of Destruction. My favorite game. Still play it. Its sequel was a horrid game for various reasons so have not gotten.
    2. Civilization 4 Beyond The Sword.
    3. The Elder Scrolls 5 Skyrim. On break from the game. Will one day play again. Of note I also played and loved Morrowind and got but hated and quickly stopped playing Oblivion.
    4. Team Fortress 2. No longer play and will not play again. Stopped about 4 months after it became free to play because of the influx of cheaters and trolls in it.
    5. Borderlands 1. Still play albeit rarely. Have never played co-op. Played sequel however 2 has a horrid loot system so no longer play. 1 Has a great loot system and slightly better combat due to enemies not being silly damage sponges and no suicide bomber enemies that insta-kill (in the base game anyway).
     
  4. Shawnees

    Shawnees Chieftain

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    If you are worried about losing your CivIV mod settings, you can always back up your civilization files on Google Drive or some other cloud service, and just download the folder when you get a different computer and paste it into the correct directory.
     
  5. vincentz

    vincentz Programmer

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    Use Google Drive, Dropbox or a third cloud to back up your civ. If you want to find out exactly what changes you have made, use Winmerge http://winmerge.org/downloads/?lang=en with an unmodded civ to see the changes.
     
  6. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    It's not that they're cartoony, it's that the graphical style is just...gross.

    No, I mean deeper.

    It is considerably more complex than V and it is objectively more difficult to play. Seriously, try playing Deity in both games and see which one is easier.

    ??? The cost of having a large army in IV is tremendous, to the point that you hardly want to build units at all unless going for an attack as soon as possible.

    "More streamlined" meaning "less variety in how you can proceed through it."

    True enough but 1-upt means the AI presents almost no challenge in V. Getting invaded in V was always happy because all it meant was more XP for my units. V has never given me that "oh crap" feeling I get when the AI invades with a massive stack in IV.
     
  7. HughFran

    HughFran Prince

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    Wow, it's been five years and people are still complaining about 1UPT! Somebody is complaining about the range that archers shoot being unrealistic? How about 20 units stacked on the same tile? That's hardly realistic either.

    Civ 6 sounds like it is going to compromise by having combined arms (melee supported by siege/ranged, etc) and I'm all for that. The days of stacking units may well be gone and who knows, the 1UPT might evolve into something different in the future.
     
  8. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Actually, it's completely realistic...
     
  9. HughFran

    HughFran Prince

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    Agree to disagree
     
  10. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    In terms of the scale of the game there is no doubt that armies of 20 or 30 premodern units take up one tile on the map. That is not something that's debatable.

    Later on in the game, with tanks, infantry and so forth it gets a bit iffy. By that time combat had spread out and took place along entire national borders and stuff so the stacks do seem unrealistic then.
     
  11. HughFran

    HughFran Prince

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    Regardless of the logistics of what is realistic and what is not - refusing to play Civ 5 because of 1UPT (which quite a few have stated) just seems bizarre as there are so many other elements to the game.

    Back to my original point, I think Combined Arms will be a realistic and interesting compromise.
     
  12. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I think you will find it's not 1upt per se that's the problem, it's that the AI in V can't hang with it. I still play Advanced Wars 2 which uses 1upt and that game is awesome.
    The issue is not really what's "realistic" so much as what's fun, although some players probably will find that mechanics that are too unrealistic break their immersion.
    I find stacks to be more fun because the AI can actually offer a challenge. Stacks also make the game one of strategy rather than just a tactical wargame. The other problem I have with 1upt is more esoteric - it just doesn't match the scale of a civ game.

    Anyway as I've explained before science=population is my major beef with V, global happiness the second biggest problem, and the lack of challenge from the AI not understanding 1upt is in third place. The tying of science to population turns V into a game that consists mainly of filling bins.

    Sure, it could be - I'm keeping an open mind. Time will tell.
     
  13. Shawnees

    Shawnees Chieftain

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    1up completely ruins immersion. It wasn't until the World Wars of the early 19th century did armies take up huge stretches of land and were able to bombard from miles away. Hopefully Civ VI will come up with a marriage between 1upt and SoD.
     
  14. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    You mean the 20th century though right?
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I play both games, enough to know them pretty well. You're operating on an obviously flawed premise in Civ IV. However, before we talk about depth, let's pin down something so we don't have a moving target. I would define depth as "number and frequency of meaningful decisions", and in this capacity Civ IV massacres Civ V.

    Exclusively stack warfare is SP only. Try just moving a large stack into someone's borders after the ancient era in MP and you'll find yourself off the map in short order. Large army comment is glaringly misleading (opportunity cost of unit :hammers:, maintenance cost of decent army especially in a civic that boosts tech potential a lot).

    V become over-dominated by chokes and ranged warfare spam, to a fault. In MP ranged spam in V is worse than pure stacking in IV if comparing "how much is this used". I don't care much about the realism of a 2 hex shot, but I do care that this + block units constitutes the alpha strategy with limited counter play until frigates (when applicable), artillery or planes. 1UPT has a lot more tactical potential, but V lost it in cluttered maps, overpowered base city strength trivializing the need to defend yourself, and tuning ranged to be overwhelming relative to other options in a game themed on history that saw no such advantage to said ranged.

    That does not mean VI has to copy V's mistakes of course.

    There are some significant improvements in V over IV (religion, battle RNG especially early, less potential to get utterly screwed on spawn, diplo + city states victory is flawed but better than IV's), but IV has more depth when measured in meaningful decisions and especially in early game planning/implementation (much more variance in IV).

    It is accurate to say the tech trees are basically the same thing. V is a little better IMO because it doesn't give the absurd jumps in quality marked by IV.

    In terms of UI, Civ V is pathetically backwards. I can't believe how much they let UI regress in Civ V. Civ VI needs to fix that with pretty high priority. It should not take half the #inputs to do something in IV as compared to V, when that something is identical between the two games (adding a unit or building to a queue).
     
  16. Shawnees

    Shawnees Chieftain

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    omg, I'm ashamed.

    Also, another things that bugs me with V that I hope they fix in VI is the amount of time it takes between turns.
     
  17. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Ding ding ding ding, we have a winner.
    And to top it off it destroys the usefulness of any goto logic, which makes a tedious game, even more tedious.
    And to make it even more silly, some idiot didn't like road sprawl and decided to minimize it through road maint. (hint look at a map of the use and guess what, road sprawl.)
    If there was road sprawl, the goto command might have enough route variety to maybe work.
    I use the right-click goto a lot in IV, but never in V.

    Of course I stopped playing it the day it came out because I was thoroughly bored it with it by then, so did they fix the goto issues?
     
  18. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Yep, not being able to click on a unit and see where it was going is a small thing, but was a big factor in me just not finding V fun enough to continue playing it.

    I guess maybe they've changed this in the two years or so since I played V but I don't want to endure the loading time to start up the game and check :p
     
  19. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    I hope they eventually did something but this was brought up MANY times during the testing coupled with, if you're going to do that at least remove the road maint so multiple paths can be used. IT FELL ON DEAF EARS EVERY SINGLE TIME.
     
  20. vincentz

    vincentz Programmer

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    I made, for fun, a Civ4 mod, with 1UPT, multiple movepoints and rangestrikes only (modern era).
    Thought it be fun with a tactical setting that could be used for 1hour'ish MP civ'ing.
    Even with the multiple movepoints in was a nightmare moving every.goddamn.unit. And in the right order, otherwise they would get stuck behind the ones in front. Then I remembered thats how I felt with Civ5. Looking at the screenies at civ6 doesnt give me any hope tbh.
    Back to modding civ4 for the next 4-5 years I guess.
     

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