Civ 7 and Ara: A Cross Comparison 100 hours in.

[user746383]

You son of a gun, I'm in. Installing now - I'll post here with some first impressions in a bit.

 

[user746383]

Here are my impressions after about an hour or so:

• I really like the art style of the leaders, I guess they are more cartoony like civ6 but a lot of personality really comes through. I like that they look at me instead of dolls looking at each other.
• Map colors and style reminds me of Civ5 which I wasn't the hugest fan of, but I appreciate there's some color there.
• Yay, Earth map to play on. Also yay, auto explore. Another yay - cloud fog of war.
• The performance is really fast and smooth. The tutorial was also quite helpful getting up to speed.
• The narrator sounds like Captain Janeway, which I'm a fan of. Is it actually her?

I played as Itzcoatl, and Mexico spawned one tile away (I guess this is a true start location thing). I built a couple archers and conquered him right away, and it was pretty interesting how the battle played out with reinforcements arriving over multiple turns. The battle animations are a bit silly and primitive though, not sure what the point is?

The way cities grow by claims is pretty cool, and I like how you build up a supply chain through claims, buildings and how you place them. But it's also a ton to wrap your head around in your first game.

I made it to the Bronze Age and am now taking a break, but I'm glad I gave the game a shot! So far so good.

 

[KayAU]

@protocol7
I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yeah, there's a lot to wrap your head around in the beginning. On the surface Ara deals with the same concepts that Civ does, but its systems function quite differently. The most core thing, I think, is to acquire resources, set up production chains, and then use the produced goods to benefit your people. The QoL stats for each city are key to how productive they are, and also contribute to your score. I'm really just scratching the surface here, there's a lot to learn. Feel free to ask if there's something you need help with.

If you haven't already, I would suggest trying to build a Triumph. They typically require a stockpile of certain goods to start construction. They also fill the entire region they're in, so they're a particularly good use for those regions with 2 zones or less.

It's not Kate Mulgrew, by the way. The narrator is Debra Wilson, apparently she does a lot of voice work these days. She's in Civ 7 as well, as Harriet Tubman.

 

[Wrenched]

Just a quick notification, as of yesterday the giant 1.4 update for Ara is out, as well as the first paid DLC, Untold Scenarios, and the game is on sale, 50% off.

Thanks for noting this! I've been wanting to try this and it sounds like a good time to jump in.

I'm also quite optimistic that Stardock is involved and supporting development now and I really enjoyed Oxide's previous work with Ashes of the Singularity (still keep that installed on my PC).

 

[KayAU]

Thanks for noting this! I've been wanting to try this and it sounds like a good time to jump in.

I'm also quite optimistic that Stardock is involved and supporting development now and I really enjoyed Oxide's previous work with Ashes of the Singularity (still keep that installed on my PC).

No worries. Yeah, I'm very happy about Stardock's involvement so far, development seems to have sped up significantly. If you look at the changelog for 1.4, you'll get a sense of just how much is being done, including significant improvements to the AI. It's the biggest update since launch, but I would assume that 2.0, which is planned for later this summer, is going to be even more substantial.

 

[user746383]

Is there a basic guide for the production chains in the latest version somewhere? My cities are making a bunch of stuff, but I have no idea how optimised it is or if I'm doing it right, and I don't really understand how to use the in-game views to try to make sense of it.

 

[KayAU]

Is there a basic guide for the production chains in the latest version somewhere? My cities are making a bunch of stuff, but I have no idea how optimised it is or if I'm doing it right, and I don't really understand how to use the in-game views to try to make sense of it.

Yeah, it's going to take a few playthrough to fully get a sense of what to produce. There is a Wiki, but it's both incomplete, and with the game changing so quickly, probably a bit outdated.

You can find a lot of useful information in the game's tooltips though. One approach to see how a resource can be used for, is to start with the resource icon. Like this Fox resource:

Spoiler :

As you see, it can produce Furs. But what can that be used for?

Spoiler :

The tooltip has the answer, under "Used to craft", 7 goods are listed. One of them is Leather, which I also brought up the tooltip for, because it is a very important intermediate good that goes into a lot of stuff. As you can see I am currently producing 4.4 Leather per turn, while I'm consuming 7. It's okay for now as I have a stockpile of 128, but in time, I want to produce more of it. One of things I can make with Leather, is Tunics:

Spoiler :

Tunics seems like an underwhelming good. It is not used as a supply in any building, and its effect as an amenity in your cities is a mere +5 Prosperity. However, I will always produce Tunics, because it is very useful as an accelerator for the more advanced goods, Garments and Fine Clothes:

Spoiler :

As you can see, Fine Clothes is a very powerful amenity, and something which itself is not used to produce anything else (other than the listed Triumph). This is an end point for the production chain.

So this is one way to figuring out the production chains, in this case Fox->Furs->Leather->Garments->Fine Clothes.

Another approach is starting with what you want to craft. For example, if you go into the National Economy manager, you will see that this Workshop could be making Metal Pots.

Spoiler :

Under "Crafting accelerators" you see which other items can be used to produce Metal Pots. As you play the game, you will learn how many goods are made without having to look it up, but for anything you don't recall, you can always just follow the tooltips.

To get a sense of how much you need of something, I often look at the Amenities section in the city view.

Spoiler :

Like these Grain Stores, for example. I am producing 0.6 per turn, and consuming 0.2. The effect of this as an amenity lasts for 10 turns, which means I need 0.1 for each city I want to use them in. I currently only have 4 cities, so 0.4 would be enough to supply my nation. Of course, Grain Stores can also be used as part of a production chain to produce other, more advanced items. For that, I would need to produce much more.

There's also an Inventory panel to the right:

Spoiler :

This can be useful to see if you have any underutilized resources. In this case, I am producing more Sculpting Material than I am using, and have built up a stockpile. It may come in handy later though:

Spoiler :

Among other things, Sculpting Material can be used to produce Concrete, which is a requirement to construct a great number of buildings in the mid and late game.


In general, there is a lot of information in the tooltips. Here's another use for them:

Spoiler :

Currently I am making a surplus of Wealth, but the tooltip would be the first place I'd go if I needed to cut spending. As you can see, I am spending quite a lot on Crafting, -66 gold. This is typical when I am lacking resources, and am using gold as an accelerator instead of the appropriate raw materials. If I hover on the number itself, I get a breakdown of exactly where the gold is being spent:

Spoiler :

Here you see that among other things, I am spending 10 gold per turn to craft Festivals in Gathering Hall 2. I can also click on the text to go there:

Spoiler :

Ara's economy is quite complex, but you will get the hang of it soon. I personally find it very satisfying. When I see a resource I don't have on the map now, it's always exciting, because I know what it could give me down the line. I might rush to secure a Copper resource, for example, as I know it will soon be useful for getting the Metal Ingots I need for mid game units, and maybe for speeding up production of Coins, and later for Electronics.

 

[user746383]

Thank you, indeed the mental framework and UI skills to answer the questions "which building do you want to build, and what do you want to craft there once built" is exactly what I need. But I agree it's really interesting building things up in this way, and I'm sure the complexity is there to keep things interesting as you learn how it works.

 

[Jimuth]

Hi guys
First time poster here - been lurking a while after buying Civ7.

So I really lost interest very quickly in 7, which is a shame seeing as I spent £100+ on it. It just doesn't have any addiction for me, and I never really got past the Era change into exploration.

After reading this thread I bought Ara at the weekend on sale. I really love it. It's got that Civ "one more turn" feel to it for me. The graphics are good, the music is good, and I'm enjoying it a lot, despite only playing at Prince level and giving up games as the AI seems to be better than me at the game. Which is great, I love that curve of being poor at a game and slowly getting better. I think the last time I had that with Civ was V. Ara really feels like the natural successor to CiV to me, not surprising as it's a Schafer game.

Thanks KayAU for all your posts and convincing me to try it!

Things I love about Ara ... having armies in reserve; battles that take turns to resolve and can be affected by reinforcements; the sheer number of leaders; the general presentation of it is better than I was expecting - it is AAA

The only small gripe I have is the lack of minimap.

I would heartily recommend Ara to anyone who bounced off Civ7 and is looking for a Civ-feeling fix!

 

[StargazingDog]

I have literally never heard of this game until just now. I spent the day playing Civ 6 after writing my goodbye letter to Civ 7. I could have been playing this!

Any reason to buy on Steam instead of Xbox store?

 

[MutilationWave]

I have literally never heard of this game until just now. I spent the day playing Civ 6 after writing my goodbye letter to Civ 7. I could have been playing this!

Any reason to buy on Steam instead of Xbox store?

Being able to use a mouse and mods I'd guess.

 

[KayAU]

Thanks KayAU for all your posts and convincing me to try it!

No worries, I'm just happy more people are discovering it these days. Ara is already easily my favorite among the "Civ competitors", and it's improving quickly now. I think it deserves more attention, so it's nice to see there are some new players these days.

Feel free to ask if there's anything. There's a separate subforum for Ara here on CFC. It's been a bit quiet there lately, but I'm hopeful that activity will increase now the 1.4 is out, and 2.0 is on the horizon.

 

[KayAU]

Things I love about Ara ... having armies in reserve; battles that take turns to resolve and can be affected by reinforcements; the sheer number of leaders; the general presentation of it is better than I was expecting - it is AAA

It has a lot going for it. I think my favourite aspect is the whole economy system and how resources are used. I am also a big fan of the presentation, it reminds me of the classic city builders I used to play, Caesar 3, Pharaoh, and so on. I have a few hundred hours in the game, but I still zoom all the way in to look at my citizens going about their lives. I also still compulsively screenshot every time I build a Triumph:

Spoiler :

 

[GIO888]

I haven't played Civ 7 yet, and probably will not for a while. I might get it on a sale at some point, when the game has been improved and the price has been reduced. Sad, as I started on Civ I in '92?

Happily, ARA MORE than scratches the "one more turn" itch - and the complexity of economy is really engrossing, although I'd imagine some would be daunted by it!

A true successor to Civ, thank goodness.

 

[Xefjord]

I have literally never heard of this game until just now. I spent the day playing Civ 6 after writing my goodbye letter to Civ 7. I could have been playing this!

Any reason to buy on Steam instead of Xbox store?

For whatever reason, Microsoft partially judges their success by Steam reviews not necessarily by just purchases, so I would say buy it on steam just so you can leave a review, and that increases the chances of getting more content later down the line.

 

[KayAU]

Yeah, that's a good point. Ara is currently at 68% positive in its all time reviews, giving it a "Mixed" rating. It would not take that many positive reviews to push it into the "Mostly Positive" category, which would be quite helpful to the developers. I think they deserve it. The game wasn't bad on launch, but it has been improved significantly since.

 

[user746383]

Just left a positive review, since that's how I feel I'd still love a video of someone playing 1.4 talking through their decisions and how they are keeping track of everything. Seeing the game played would help me a lot I think. I can play the game fine, I'm just a hopeless optimiser and feel like I'm always doing something inefficiently.

 

[j51]

I’m wondering about the small QoL things: are there a good assortment of ethnic/cultural building and unit art styles? Are the city lists accurate and reflect historical importance, or are they just thrown together hodge-podges? (For example is Delhi or Pataliputra India's capital?) Is it easy to mod those things?

For all the places it needs work, Civ VII handles this stuff so well. Better than any game this side of a paradox release.

 

[StargazingDog]

I am on a free month of PC Game Pass, so I gave ARA a try. I don't think I have bounced off of a game more quickly than this. I got about six turns in and quit when the tutorial said "you have explored how to manage your science, military, commerce...", when the game hadn't actually mentioned any of these things yet. Seemed to be a bad omen for the quality of the game.

I probably would have enjoyed it if there was a manual. There is just too much going on for a basic tutorial, especially one that isn't even made properly. I mean, the very first thing you see is a screen of 40 Civs with walls of text being poorly narrated.

 

[Xefjord]

I’m wondering about the small QoL things: are there a good assortment of ethnic/cultural building and unit art styles? Are the city lists accurate and reflect historical importance, or are they just thrown together hodge-podges? (For example is Delhi or Pataliputra India's capital?) Is it easy to mod those things?

For all the places it needs work, Civ VII handles this stuff so well. Better than any game this side of a paradox release.

I will try my best to answer each of these:

They have been gradually increasing the unit art style diversity over time. It's been a common request to add more visual diversity, and they are moving in that direction, just there are still many generic things like all the buildings except houses tend to be generic for each district.

The city lists have been pretty good imo, but it's important to know that the way Ara handles city naming is that when the map is generated, it names every tile in the vicinity of a civs start, then building a city will name it after the tile you built it on. This means that if you forward settle someone (or vice versa) your city will be named after their civilization's name list, not yours. If map is large and doesn't have enough civs, it will reuse the name list for far off tiles, but add the name "new" in front of cities. So somewhere within 5 tiles or Beijing there may be a Shanghai, and 20 tiles away there may be a "New Shanghai". But you normally won't see this as there is generally enough players to fill out most of the map with other civs city names.

You can of course manually change the name of any city any time. (you can rename a lot of stuff, from units, to buildings, etc)