Civ 7 Is Failing And Only Radical Change Can Save It

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tman2000

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For the love of all that is holy, please listen Firaxis. Civ 7 is failing. Patch 1.20 gave hope to a few last holdouts but now that it’s sunk in reviews are trending negative again. You will not save this game with your minrun superficial pitch patch approach. Your obsession with balance is going nowhere in sales. Just stop.

Civ 7 need three things:

1) A concession to major player concerns as an admission of failure

2) Enlarge the scope of the the game

3) actually complete the broken legacy paths

Do this and you might save the game. Throw in a couple apology civs. It’s not that hard to make a new civ. Release mod tools.

I get you can’t redo the game. Almost everything I’m talking about is sort of like a patch.

For 1) this is conceding that the age transcription concept failed. You can’t completely get rid of it. Instead, just do two things. Let people keep their antiquity civs if they want, and also make age transition seamless. The way I’d do this is have the next age progression trees unlock during phase two of a crisis. Once you research two of the techs, and if phase three of the crisis is reached, you can civ transition. Once the crisis concludes, all players can civ transition and the old progression trees disappear. You can then civ transition at any time in the next age if you choose not to.

For 2) this means leaning hard into the town concept. There are lots of ways to do this and I’ve discussed my ideas plenty. Still the idea overall is big big big maps. This means towns are easy to make. One concept is to have them not count toward settlement cap or at least double settlement caps and make cities cost two. Something like this. Fix the goddamn city connections system and make it more interesting and logical, then make the town specializations more useful and interesting where you would often prefer to keep a town a town than make it a city. Please don’t be lazy, and let us have some control over where food yields distribute. I have suggested that distance should govern a cap on how much food can be sent so only nearby cities can get 100% of a farming town’s food. Of course I also think settlement cap should be replaced by a distance from capital system and so managing city connections and bonuses to use roads to reduce distance cost would improve both. I digress. Just make civ 7 bigger and use cheap, abundant towns to do it. I have recognized the need for towns to be able to produce a weak militia unit to compensate for distant cities. I digress.

For 3), guys, fix religion and modern age culture. There have been so many proposals but for the love of god just do more. More seriously, even the treasure fleet victory needs work and even culture in antiquity scales poorly with player count. Maybe just change these things up. People complain they’re two rigid. Maybe combine them. Maybe crusade could be a military-religious victory. Maybe colonization could be an economic-expansionist victory. Maybe enlightenment could be a cultural-scientific victory. Use the systems and yields you have and add nuance. I honestly don’t see why this would be so hard to do.

I can’t honestly fathom why there continue to be so many obvious bugs that go unfixed. I cant understand why the UI isn’t better.

Guys, you can’t wait for an expansion to fix this stuff.

Call the larger maps “conquest mode” to give it an optional experimental tinge. Release it for free. Do the same with your legacy path updates. The most popular experimental modes can combine their best features for the free patch that updates the game to be ready for the first expansion (which should be the 4th age you promised). Then the second expansion can get in the guts of the game and really change it (I think making city planning more variable to favor unique cities in a tall play is one good move, in addition to a vastly more integrated religious system, etc)

Or just keep patching in superficial crap. Can’t wait for the 1.3 patch that adds auto exploring scouts. I’m sure that will save the game.
 
For 1) this is conceding that the age transcription concept failed. You can’t completely get rid of it. Instead, just do two things. Let people keep their antiquity civs if they want, and also make age transition seamless. The way I’d do this is have the next age progression trees unlock during phase two of a crisis. Once you research two of the techs, and if phase three of the crisis is reached, you can civ transition. Once the crisis concludes, all players can civ transition and the old progression trees disappear. You can then civ transition at any time in the next age if you choose not to.
And by what metric are we judging that civ switching has 'failed'?
 
I thought you announced that you were "bowing out" of this forum?

Your suggestions represent massive changes, and some of them are even novel in that all the discussions about how to improve the game so far haven't yielded the same ideas - except that you roll in obvious improvements that can be made (e.g. better connections, larger maps) into them. Those will be done. The more outlandish stuff probably won't.

So, in light of that, I think you will continuously be disappointed and will always be lamenting that the game is a failure here.
 
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I thought you announced that you were "bowing out" of this forum?

Your suggestions represent massive changes, and some of them are even novel in that all the discussions about how to improve the game so far haven't yielded the same ideas - except that you roll in obvious improvements that can be made (e.g. better connections, larger maps) into them. Those will be done. The more outlandish stuff probably won't.

So, in light of that, I think you will continuously be disappointed and will always be lamenting that the game is a failure here.

Okay the game is dead then.
 
I thought you announced that you were "bowing out" of this forum?
I am this is a last hurrah (in the 7 forum). I’m seriously saying that it’s clear the game is as good as dead and the things I mention are necessary to save it. Anyone denying that is just in a sinking ship.
 
There’s like six-10 of you who consistently defend this game and a lot of it is sort of deconstructing criticism of the game rather than defending its merits
They defend it because they like it… and don‘t understand how you can’t like it. You attack it because you don‘t like it, and don‘t understand how they can like it.

But anyways, why don‘t you move on to another game or whatever you actually like? I think there is no point in repeating all the time that you think that the game is dead and why you think that. The other people don‘t really care.
 
They defend it because they like it… and don‘t understand how you can’t like it. You attack it because you don‘t like it, and don‘t understand how they can like it.

But anyways, why don‘t you move on to another game or whatever you actually like? I think there is no point in repeating all the time that you think that the game is dead and why you think that. The other people don‘t really care.
Perhaps he enjoys complaining
 
They defend it because they like it… and don‘t understand how you can’t like it. You attack it because you don‘t like it, and don‘t understand how they can like it

I gave it a chance and defended it and in spite of its flaws always assumed it would get better with time with playing it more. I made mods for it.

It’s not getting better. It’s dead. Largely because Firaxis has screwed up terribly and has just not owned up to their failure.

It is actually objectively dying by the way, I wouldn’t say it is if it wasn’t.
 
Hmm. While I agree with some of the sentiment, it did come across a bit aggressively. I also don't think they're all be any significant 'concessions' on the part of Firaxis, but that the level of stuff you are suggesting is probably planned for expansions.
 
Okay the game is dead then.
That's fine.
There’s like six-10 of you who consistently defend this game and a lot of it is sort of deconstructing criticism of the game rather than defending its merits
Didn't you state that people who say they enjoy Antiquity Age are just coping? It doesn't sound like you're willing to entertain any talk of merit.

Besides, "the game is a failure" and the nth demand that core game mechanics be completely changed are very tired criticism by now, so is it any surprise that the typical response is deconstruction? And there's already a thread for just talking about how bad the game is, so this one is hardly necessary.
 
Hmm. While I agree with some of the sentiment, it did come across a bit aggressively. I also don't think they're all be any significant 'concessions' on the part of Firaxis, but that the level of stuff you are suggesting is probably planned for expansions.

If *some* or *a few* of these things are saved for expansions, then the game is totally dead. They charged $30 for two leaders and 4 civs and didn’t even include a unique unit model on update for one of them. So what’s an expansion going to be? $50?

Nah, they do what I recommend here or write off the game.
 
Nah, they do what I recommend here or write off the game.
Why are you offering your expert advice for free anyway? If your recommendations really are bang on, you should be a consultant for game companies.

By the way, I don't remember seeing you talk about the food change in the latest patch. But I do recall your criticism of towns revolving around how bad food is as a yield. So why is the patch so "superficial" in this regard?
 
If *some* or *a few* of these things are saved for expansions, then the game is totally dead. They charged $30 for two leaders and 4 civs and didn’t even include a unique unit model on update for one of them. So what’s an expansion going to be? $50?

Nah, they do what I recommend here or write off the game.
I would be surprised if they write if off. I'll also be surprised if they admit that they went the wrong direction on this entry. The closest we will get to that is an announcement that Ed Beach is retiring or moving on. I think we need personnel adjustments to get the type of changes that are needed. I would be shocked if Take Two is happy with the sales numbers I will be surprised if there isn't a leadership shakeup at Firaxis before the end of the year.
 
I would be surprised if they write if off. I'll also be surprised if they admit that they went the wrong direction on this entry.
Okay, so I wrote my "three fixes" for a reason. If we take them as the context, the idea that Take Two will want to save the game and the franchise by at least doing some mid-scale thing similar to what I'm proposing, then that's the framing for a possible admission of fault.

With that in mind, admitting they went the wrong direction and upholding these free changes as an attempt to make it right would actually go a very long way toward changing community opinion and reinvigorating interest in the game. I'm not saying that a given fix, or my proposed fix, would ultimately generate renewed interest in the game. However, actually saying sorry when you've lost the audience actually does work.

I cannot fathom why companies avoid it. I understand that there's a time and place to ignore negativity to beat the negativity cycle, but at some point you have to react to a straight up L.

Frankly, this culture today of companies or politicians just never admitting failure is I think an elite class managerial culture that has emerged out of the narcissistic, post-ethics, extreme capitalism of the post-2008 era. It's not an actual strategy, it's just a culture.
 
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