Civ Discussion - Assyria
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The Fanatical
Prince
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I expected a unique siege tower or a battering ram as the unique unit since the Assyrian siege machines were revolutionary for their time and paved the way for further evolutions in the art of siegecraft.
Before the reveal, seeing the civilization's symbol of Ashur, I anticipated a unique archer unit, but Assyria got a unique chariot instead.
Chariotry was indeed the dominant arm in the Near East before the Assyrians started using cavalry en masse. A three-crewed chariot dragged by three horses or even a four-crewed heavy chariot dragged by four horses would have looked more unique, but the very earliest relief of an Assyrian chariot during the 12th century BC has it depicted with two men and two horses. The heavier four-crewed chariots of the 7th century BC were designed to directly crush into enemy lines, an exclusive role that the earlier and lighter two-crewed chariots didn't have. Thus, those bigger chariots would have been more fitting with the vibe the civilization's unique unit goes for in my opinion.
I was certain that the Turtanu would have been the unique civilian unit, but it is a missed opportunity that the unique commander isn't on a chariot with a parasol on it. The mounted riders beside the Turtanu are accurate, though.
With Assyria being scientific and with a unique chariot unit, does anyone else feel like we might not get another Mesopotamian civilization in this iteration? Sumeria might still have a chance with a phalanx-esque unique unit, but having both a scientific Assyria and a scientific Babylon in the same game seems a little less likely. It appears to me that Assyria has gotten attributes from both of these civilizations.
Before the reveal, seeing the civilization's symbol of Ashur, I anticipated a unique archer unit, but Assyria got a unique chariot instead.
Chariotry was indeed the dominant arm in the Near East before the Assyrians started using cavalry en masse. A three-crewed chariot dragged by three horses or even a four-crewed heavy chariot dragged by four horses would have looked more unique, but the very earliest relief of an Assyrian chariot during the 12th century BC has it depicted with two men and two horses. The heavier four-crewed chariots of the 7th century BC were designed to directly crush into enemy lines, an exclusive role that the earlier and lighter two-crewed chariots didn't have. Thus, those bigger chariots would have been more fitting with the vibe the civilization's unique unit goes for in my opinion.
I was certain that the Turtanu would have been the unique civilian unit, but it is a missed opportunity that the unique commander isn't on a chariot with a parasol on it. The mounted riders beside the Turtanu are accurate, though.
With Assyria being scientific and with a unique chariot unit, does anyone else feel like we might not get another Mesopotamian civilization in this iteration? Sumeria might still have a chance with a phalanx-esque unique unit, but having both a scientific Assyria and a scientific Babylon in the same game seems a little less likely. It appears to me that Assyria has gotten attributes from both of these civilizations.
Menocchio
Prince
Yeah, my hopes for seeing the Hittites in the game are definitely dampened. They could have some kind of axe infantry unit, but like other Bronze Age empires they were all about those iconic chariots.
I didn't necessarily expect it, but that was my wish. Assyria has a bunch of choices when it comes to potential UUs, but I agree that their siege warfare was revolutionary and it's what I would associate with them, personally. I would associate the chariots with the Hittites more.
I'm not sure if we can surmise that right now. Both Assyria and Babylon were scientific in Civ 5, right? Also, Sumeria's ziggurats in Civ 6 produced some science as well so I wouldn't be surprised if science is just how they want to portray Mesopotamian civs considering they are the earliest "cradle of civilization" and were among the first to discover ancient technologies.
Or they could finally pivot to a cultural Babylon this time around?
I could see Sumer or Babylon not being Scientific…but say starting with some early techs at turn 1
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stealth_nsk
Deity
We could get another mesopotamian civilization much later in the development cycle, probably in the second expansion or DLC around it. At the moment there are too many empty spots on the map. We didn't get any Germanic, Celtic, Scythian or Polynesian civilization for antiquity yet. And there's a lot of space in Africa and America too.
Well, outside of pop history and the Bible, Assyria is quite famous for its trade network. It would have been a great unique mechanic if the unique would have been a trade post that is built in foreign settlements by a unique trade unit. Hopefully, another civ will put something like this into reality - maybe Armenia, Portugal, or the Hanse.
Lord Lakely
Idea Fountain
Assyria's design should in no way prevent a future appearance of the Hittites. The Hittites's only scientific flavour is that the spread Iron Working around, but they didn't *invent* it. Many of their ideas on warfare were taken from the neighbouring Luwians and Mitanni.
Personally, I think the Hittites should be Resource focused, with a playstyle similar to a terrestial, more belligerent Aksum. An Aksum that gets Production and Happiness from Empire Resources or similar. They were a culture of farmers, craftsmen and priests who lucked into an early technological advantage on their neighbours.
Not to mention the Hittites are still the best possible entry point for the token Turkish factions (Seljuks, Ottomans, Turkey), so I wouldn't count them out.
Assyria's appearance does make Babylon less likely. It's less of a priority now that you have mesopotamian representation. There's still a window for a mesopotamian faction though, due to the absense of the Ziggurat and Sumerian/Babylonian names from the Assyrian City List; If there's any mesopotamian Civ that would Babylon or Sumer superfluous, it would have to be the Akkadian empire which bridged both.
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The Fanatical
Prince
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If I remember correctly, the Assyrians had developed a fast network of roads inside their empire in order to transfer the army where it was needed the most to quash any rebellion. I can see those trade posts offering some additional movement points to your units that are at least x tiles away from them as an added bonus to anything economical they might have provided.
The Fanatical
Prince
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The Akkadian Empire would be nice for a change. The unique unit would be an archer probably. How are we feeling about
Scorpion King as a leader?
Lord Lakely
Idea Fountain
Sargon or Enheduanna should be the Akkadian leader, but I think we'll get Zenobia (who can be associated with Assyria) over either.The Akkadian Empire would be nice for a change. The unique unit would be an archer probably. How are we feeling about
Spoiler spoiler :
EDIT: In either case, I would personally prefer Akkad over Babylon as it covers both Babylon AND Sumer with one Civ slot - casting a net as wide as possible is kind of an important trait in an Antiquity Civ. It's far from a high priority now that Assyria are in, but maybe in the capstone update (NFP equivalent or whatever).
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I usually would say I expect Babylon to get in just because of it's been in every game, but who knows this time around considering we don't have Gandhi leading India? I'd still put it more likely that we will eventually get it, over we won't at all.
For the record I was also a proponent of Assyria over Babylon for the NFP, and I'd prefer Sumer over Babylon too for Civ 7. But I'd also take the Akkadian Empire.
Lord Lakely
Idea Fountain
I'm pretty sure Gandhi is going to be the last leader added to the Civ7 development cycle. Similar to how Bess was the last leader added to the Civ6 dev cycle.I usually would say I expect Babylon to get in just because of it's been in every game, but who knows this time around considering we don't have Gandhi leading India? I'd still put it more likely that we will eventually get it, over we won't at all.
For the record I was also a proponent of Assyria over Babylon for the NFP, and I'd prefer Sumer over Babylon too for Civ 7. But I'd also take the Akkadian Empire.
He might well be, but I'd be quite happy - and not at all surprised - to see them break the streak with the "big five". Shaka and Genghis were the only logical choices for the civs they lead, but for everyone else, repeating Elisabeth, Alexander and Gandhi just meant we're not seeing any of the other interesting picks represented. They killed Lincoln's streak with V. They freed up Greece by including Macedon in VI. I imagine we would have seen no Elizabeth in VII if not for pandemic-induced delays.
stealth_nsk
Deity
Yes, something like this. We'll have second Indian leader soon, that's already topped only by 2.5 American ones. If we ever get third one I expect it to be the end game.
In terms of Alexander, I think he'd benefit the most from this new system considering he could easily lead Greece, Persia, or Egypt. He'd also probably strategically, or just geographically, fit with Assyria as well.
Shaka could very well just be associated with Buganda without having a proper Zulu civ. Elizabeth would be nice to have something that actually represents England, not Normans/Great Britain, as long as they don't make her the "Trade Agreement Meme Queen".
Gandhi is the only one I'd be fine with benching, despite the fact that it finally makes sense for him to be a leader this iteration considering we have leaders such as Confucius, Tubman, and Lafayette etc.
Menocchio
Prince
I'd love to see them do a sneaky switcheroo and give us Nehru instead.
Indeed. But since we can have leaders without their civs, I think Sargon would be a good pick for this one.
Yzman
Deity
I did seem to notice that the fortifications have to be from the era. I would start with only like a plus 3 bonus from it but then as i built medieval fornication for Viet, it exploded. Synergies really well with Vietamese actually.
