Civ III confusing after Civ II

hoopmatch

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
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25
Location
St. Louis, Michigan
As a longtime Civ II player who recently started playing Civ III Complete, I feel like a complete newby again.

My Civ II strategy was to reach Democracy as soon as possible and win by buying other cities. Military action was taken only defensively or to capture capitals (that couldn't be bribed).

My wonder-building strategy was to build camels and deliver them to the city building the wonder. (They each added 50 shields, and a wonder could be built quickly.)

If someone got close to building a wonder before I did, I just bought the damn thing.

Now in Civ III I can't buy cities or buy wonders. It seems as if the rival civs beat me to 80 percent of the wonders.

Is there a way to speed up wonder production that I'm unaware of?

Is there a way to take over foreign cities without military action? (I'm already aware that sometimes they switch allegiance voluntarily when they are impressed by your culture.)
 
You can try to buy cities from the AI, as well as influencing them via propaganda later on (once you get Espionage), although neither is terribly likely to work. The only way to cheat a Great Wonder into play is via a Great Leader (in Vanilla/PtW) or a Scientific Great Leader (Conquests), although both Military and Scientific Leaders can be used to rush Small Wonders.
 
I sympathize. I also had a steep learning curve when I upgraded. The key to doing well in Civ2 was building camels and sending them out. In Civ3 you can't buy wonders and the AIs won't sell you their cities so easily. Trade is a side show in 3; the only thing you as ruler worry about is the trading of big items like techs and luxuries. Luxuries are important to Civ3. Try to keep a good supply to keep your citizens happy. Citizens in cities clinging to their base cultural identity means that, even if you did buy it, there's a chance they'd flip back to the country you bought it from.

In Civ3 keeping your citizens happy is much more important and building wonders is pretty optional. Just build the ones that will help you get specific things done, like lower unit costs or generate extra shields, gold, or techs. Sometimes I get pretty frustrated and just go out conquering the enemy. The culture victory is probably the easiest win strategy. Just build temples & libraries and focus on driving down your corruption so you can build more buildings.

Wars are much easier to manage. When you get one, just ally up with everyone who surrounds your enemy. You won't have to conquer too much before they're begging for peace. It's better to let your allies crap out on you first and make their "separate peace" (or if your citizens can take it, wait out the full 20 turns and non-renew your alliances) so that your reputation doesn't take a hit. It's near impossible to go through a whole game without some wars, but I find that I can avoid fighting in Civ3 easier than in 2, plus the AIs doing all just gang up on me like they did in 2.

I'd say run up the tech tree as fast as you can and don't be afraid to trade away techs to stay on good terms with a neighbor. Build embassies ASAP so you can keep track of what's going on in your neighbors' capitals. Drive corruption down (you can ride Republic all the way to the modern age if you're not too belligerant), but don't be afraid to swap over to monarchy or communism when you need to fight a war. I understand fascism is good for wars, too, but I'm too sentimental to ever try that. When you want a big push for expansion, totally conquering another civ is preferable to letting a small bitter enemy linger to harass you for the last few centuries. But overall, keep your wars short. With enough luxuries and (if necessary) cathedrals, you'll find wars are much easier to manage in a democracy. Set your game off of "always renegotiate trade agreements" at first. AIs will hang onto trades with you even if they're not pleased at the moment, but if you renegotiate terms, you could lose out. But if they're happy & prospering, you want to be able to raise your price or pull down an extra tech when you're ready to renegotiate, not just when you hit that 20-turn magic number.

It's true you have to think differently in Civ3. Just make sure you're playing on regent level or higher. If you practice playing on chieftain, you'll teach yourself the wrong way to play.

I personally had an even bigger problem adjusting to Civ4. I don't know how to make my subjects happy. In fact, a lot of what goes on in the game is still a mystery to me. As it stands, it doesn't give me the same epic feeling I got from 2 & 3. So I'm mostly sticking with Civ3 until I can devote more learning curve time to it in the summer.

Is there a way to speed up wonder production that I'm unaware of?

Is there a way to take over foreign cities without military action? (I'm already aware that sometimes they switch allegiance voluntarily when they are impressed by your culture.)

The best way to nail down the few wonders you want (and you must reduce your personal demand for achieving them) is to build big cities with high shield production and a try to get a jump start on the footrace to your wonder of choice. Hitting techs early so you can generate a Great Scientist is the only way to rush-build a wonder. Make one of your cities a "Super Science City" (with the colossus, Copernicus, Newton, a university, and a LOT of trade). But the only wonder you really HAVE to build is Hoover Dam. Build that, and you'll probably win the game.

I think if you turn off the Great Scientist option, then Great leaders generated by battles can still rush-build wonders, but I may also be wrong about that.

Flipping cities by culture is a slow process, but pretty satisfying. AIs treat selling cities almost as taboo. You'll have to fight a few wars to round out your empire, I'm afraid. Just keep 'em short.
 
You cannot use an MGL to rush a wonder, regardless of the SGL being off or on. You have to do it with either an SGL or brick by brick. You can use concepts like pre builds.

A common tactic to get the GLB on a higher level is to pick a town and use a number of workers to get the tiles improved. Add in a couple of workers to get to or near size 12. Now use whatever structure you have available to hold the shields, till you learn Lit.

Ideally you use a palace or another wonder that you know is not going to be completed prioir to switching to the GLB. This can be done for any wonder.
 
Welcome to the forum, hoopmatch!

:band: :woohoo: :salute:

As a longtime Civ II player who recently started playing Civ III Complete, I feel like a complete newby again.
Oooh yeah, how well I remember those days. It was rough. Things were different and I did not understand how things worked. In my first game in PTW I disbanded an MGL because that is I thought a Wonder was rushed!

And then I found this forum, the War Academy and Succession Games.

I hope you've got Civ3 Complete (C3C); it has the most Civs, most wonders and it is what most of us play here. C3C contains all three versions of Civ (vanilla, Play the World and Conquest) and all are fully patched; one install with three full games. The default game is Conquests, but all three are available.

Also, as a timesaver, find and download the utility/helper programs CivAssistII and/or CivReplaySuite (CrpSuite). Both will help you keep track of cranky cities, trade options and city counts.

Here at the forum, pick a game from the thread An Archive of Training Day Games and read through it. These are specialized Succesion Games that feature a lot more discussion/explanation than a normal SG. SGs are where several people take turns playing the same game; Person A plays 10 turns or so, posts what he did, along with save, and then Person B does the same thing. Person B -> C -> D -> E-> A until the desired victory is achieved.

You are at a good place to learn about CivIII.
 
Thanks, Bob. I'm finding the web site and forum very helpful. And, yes, I have Civ 3 Complete.


Welcome to the forum, hoopmatch!

:band: :woohoo: :salute:


Oooh yeah, how well I remember those days. It was rough. Things were different and I did not understand how things worked. In my first game in PTW I disbanded an MGL because that is I thought a Wonder was rushed!

And then I found this forum, the War Academy and Succession Games.

I hope you've got Civ3 Complete (C3C); it has the most Civs, most wonders and it is what most of us play here. C3C contains all three versions of Civ (vanilla, Play the World and Conquest) and all are fully patched; one install with three full games. The default game is Conquests, but all three are available.

Also, as a timesaver, find and download the utility/helper programs CivAssistII and/or CivReplaySuite (CrpSuite). Both will help you keep track of cranky cities, trade options and city counts.

Here at the forum, pick a game from the thread An Archive of Training Day Games and read through it. These are specialized Succesion Games that feature a lot more discussion/explanation than a normal SG. SGs are where several people take turns playing the same game; Person A plays 10 turns or so, posts what he did, along with save, and then Person B does the same thing. Person B -> C -> D -> E-> A until the desired victory is achieved.

You are at a good place to learn about CivIII.
 
Try playing a game without building a single Great Wonder. It will work wonders for your little addiction there...
 
Try playing a game without building a single Great Wonder. It will work wonders for your little addiction there...

This is important - new players often get wonder addiction. AA wonders will generally hold you back from expanding or building military.

Hoopmatch - sorry to derail but I recently tried CivII. I find it's hard to tell from looking at the screen which tile is which and where the enemy city borders are. Is there a setting to make the interface clearer? I'm spoiled by III where I can see everything at a glance. I can read III easily but II defeats me.
 
I find it's hard to tell from looking at the screen which tile is which and where the enemy city borders are. Is there a setting to make the interface clearer?
I don't believe so, but you can turn the grid on (CTRL+G) and count :) I could be wrong, it's been years since I've played it.
 
I remember CIV 1, never played CIV2 (if I could get a copy would give it a go), yep in CIV1 you could buy cities with a diplomay, steal techs with a diplomat and occasionally have a city miles from your cities flip to you, then of course there were caravans to pre-build wonders.

One trick on CIV1 you could do (preferably with pyramids) is have a we love the day in republic to grow your towns very quick.
 
Another different thing is bombardment: As long as they are well-guarded, your catapults/ trebuchets/ cannons/ artillery can last the whole game. Bombardment is one of the biggest advantages you'll have over the AI.
 
In CIV1 you could lose a whole stack with 1 hit, was it the same in 2
 
Yep, no Stacks of Death of Civ2

That, for my money, is one of the two biggest differences between Civ2 and Civ3.
1) Domestic: using caravans and freights to manage commerce and promote science
2) War: attacking in waves, vs. attacking from a stack

Once I got used to the idea of stacking units in Civ3 and Civ4, it was very hard to reconfigure my brain to go back and play Civ2. Lose one unit, lose the whole stack :cry:
 
Another different thing is bombardment: As long as they are well-guarded, your catapults/ trebuchets/ cannons/ artillery can last the whole game. Bombardment is one of the biggest advantages you'll have over the AI.
Long-range (and fast-moving) arty can be good, bomber planes too, but catapults and trebuchets just suck.
 
Try conquering a foe with better units without them. I get tons of starts with no iron, so I have to a lot.
 
Try conquering a foe with better units without them. I get tons of starts with no iron, so I have to a lot.

Artillery in groups is very, very effective. 2 times the artillery of the number of defenders they have, and it's like shooting in a fishbarrel.
The AI rarely uses more than 1 per tile, if ever.
 
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