Civ V - Beta 3

[boehj]

Cheers for those build orders. I'll take a look at your saves. I'm learning a lot about this game thru' the very helpful people on this forum... but I have a long way to go. It's great fun tho', that's for sure.

EDIT: Took a look. Very useful to see. The big differences that jump out at me are:

a) You have ~50 cities; I tend to have 12-15.
b) You have *FOUR* military units; I tend to have a lot.
c) You've gone without getting rifles (makes sense if you have no military); I rely on rifles too much I'd say.

Thanks once again tommynt.

 

[kcd_swede]

Had to fight for my life several times, then fight to liberate city states. All I can say is cash is good.

 

[tommynt]

b) You have *FOUR* military units; I tend to have a lot.

well i did scout map with 2 scouts and had at home like 2 warri+1 scout - 1. guy I attacked 1. guy once I got 1 horse out (wasnt enough to kill few out cities but not to kill him of - had to make peace) and then killed all bottom map (was all settled by Siam and some other civ) with 3 knights which got upgraded from horses - had knights pretty early on as I got civil service with gl and went on towards banking for forbidden palace.

Dont think u need more then these numer of units - just keep your force close together and have general allways go with it.

But in end I had few more units (3 units on each front do the trick) - gifted 3 or 4 to make a cs a bit happy once I finished UN (thought vote d take place right away).

Also when looking at my final save have in mind that I did sell like 15 workers (u can never have too many ...) and 20-30 universities

 

[KingMorgan]

T136 for me, Siam.

Made some mistakes, pretty sure t120 is possible.

 

[Kamino]

More datas and thoughs about my 118T Siam win.

Tech order :
1) Mining (gold mine => trade for 250g => maritime CS +1 relation level => +3F in the capitale)
2) Pottery
3) Writing (open borders trades, libraries)

Starting plot :
- food ressources are welcome (each extra food/hammer is critical at this stage), I got too (2 tiles with 2F/1H/1G)
- gold/silver/gems are the best luxury ressources (for the best tech order, and because hammers are more critical than food as food is provided by CS)
- marble is very nice for wonders but Masonry to build quarries is not among techs you want to go first

Timeline :
T0 : exploit a deer
T1 : hut1 => pop+1 (the best)
T3 : scout1
T5 : hut2 => 50g (sweet)
T6 : [Mining] scout2 (fast exploration is mandatory to : 1- gather gold 2- huts bonuses 3- meet AIs for trade 4- meet maritime CS for food 5- Natural wonders)
T8 : hut3 => archer promotion for scout
T9 : warrior (to protect my first worker from barbs)
T12 : hut4 => barbs camps :/ ; already met 6 CS and gather 250g => first friendly CS maritime => +3F/+1F
T14 : hut5 => pop+1 (yeeees!)
T15 : hut6 => [Sailing] ; worker1 => gold mine, then quarry marble, trade both asap ;
T18 : [Writing] => no 50g OB trade until T23 (does anybody knows how why ?)
T21 : settler1 ; gold mine => 172g + 3g/t trade => allied with my CS => +6F/+3F
T24 : [Masonry] ; Suk reaches 5 pop ! ; Second city with gold and marble too
T26 : library1
T28 : Hiwatha build GLib :/ ; marble quarry (not traded) ; new friendly maritime CS => +9F/+4F
T30 : worker2
T31 : [Calendar]
T33 : all AIs met
T35 : [Philo] ; worker3 ; marble quarry 2 => 197g + 2g/t trade => buy library2 for 310g
T37 : <<Stonehenge>> ; gold mine 2 => 88g + 5g/t trade => now allied with 2 maritime CS => +12F/+6F (got wine too)
T40 : settler2 ; warrior ; CS wine allow me to trade marble now for 80g + 6g/t
T42 : [Theology] => SP1 {Patronage} + SP2 {Philanthropy}
T44 : [Trapping] ; <<National College>> before City 3 foundation ; **GS1** => [Education]
T45 : [Archery] (in 1 turn, start here optimization of tech overflow)
City 3 with wine and gems : I must admit I was lucky here to block monty's settler and grab critical ressources ; he had 6 military units and could have crushed me but he didn't declare war (he got horses). The city is near a mountain and I will be able to build an observatory (don't forget it during planifiaction)

...

T50 : <<Oracle>> ; [IW]
3 cities (7, 4, 3), 2 libs, nat college => 41 beakers/t, 32g/t (17 from trade), +3 happy, 391g, met 7AI and 13 CS, allied with 2 maritime CS, 1 archer, 3 warriors, 3 workers

...

T58 : **GS2** => [Acoustics] => SP4 {Rationalism} + SP5 {Secularism}
T59 : 93 beakers/t
T60 : city 4 (the last but I think I should have build a little more)

...

T71 : SP7 {Educated Elite}
The gambit for GE. It won't work but I will get a GS and a GG who will cross the sea to reach homeland the exact turn I need it to trigger a golden age
187 beakers/t

T75 : Golden Age 1 from hapiness (I had to stop city growth to reach it...)
T76 : <<Hagia Sophia>>

...

T85 : 317 beakers/t
T86 : [Sci Theory]

...

T94 : lightbulb3 => [Biology]
T97 : <<Porcelaine Tower>>

...

and now ladies and gentlemens
T100 : [Mil Science] then <<Oxford>> for [Steam Power] then 4 lightbulbs [Elec][Refri][Plastics][Peni]
T101 : SP11 {Scientific Revo} for [Ecology][Globalization] then burn my last GS for golden age !
T102 : factory

...

T109 : <<United Nations>>

...

T118 : victory with all CS allied


Fun game !

 

[Kamino]

I don't know if this exploit is known (I didn' use it as I discovered it at the end of my game) : you can build Oxford several times.

Build it. Sell the city. Build it in another city. Sell the city. And so on...

 

[Kamino]

And to think that people are bashing Siam as the 'worst' civ in another thread on here...

 

[boehj]

That chronology is extremely useful Kamino. Thanks very much for the post.

 

[Kamino]

2) Resources for Gold trade then declare war
3) GPT for Gold trade then declare war
4) Annexing puppeted cities to sell buildings and the city itself to generate gold for buying city state votes the turn before the election.

I could improve my game with those nice tips. Thx Sumorex !

I said : "Sell everything !"
He answers : "Better, sell eveything twice !"

 

[Neuro]

I don't know if this exploit is known (I didn' use it as I discovered it at the end of my game) : you can build Oxford several times.

Build it. Sell the city. Build it in another city. Sell the city. And so on...

Ok, now THAT seems exploitive.

 

[sanabas]

Ok, now THAT seems exploitive.

Doesn't seem to be a particularly useful exploit. Oxford doesn't get built all that quickly, and you're going to be giving up a useful city each time, just for 1 extra tech. Could be wrong, but I don't see the 1 extra tech every however many turns offsetting the decreased production, science output, etc of losing cities that have a minimum of a library, a uni, and enough production to build oxford relatively quickly. Be different if you could cash-rush oxford.

 

[pagh80]

Very useful walkthrough Kamino.

I wonder can you spend a GE to hurry UN?

 

[tommynt]

some of the stuff Kamino mentions sounds very odd (lucky?) to me - ai never goes past 150gold for me (early on not past 100g) - cant imagine how it gets 250g to trade a lux for.
Also how querry marble without massonary?

having such start land + so good huts definatly helps but how to get so much gold from trades is a miracle for me - wasting 4 sp into patronage tree and still doing that good ...

 

[pagh80]

some of the stuff Kamino mentions sounds very odd (lucky?) to me - ai never goes past 150gold for me (early on not past 100g) - cant imagine how it gets 250g to trade a lux for.
Also how querry marble without massonary?

having such start land + so good huts definatly helps but how to get so much gold from trades is a miracle for me - wasting 4 sp into patronage tree and still doing that good ...

Well that is the problem about Civ 5. Its too luckbased compared to civ 4, partly because the gameplay has been simplified soo much, and partly because this game was on fast speed. With less than 120 turns to play good huts are just very powerful to get, and discovering all AIs early is also extremelly useful.
Beta 1 was also very dependant on various luck factors during the game.

 

[Kamino]

Very useful walkthrough Kamino.

I wonder can you spend a GE to hurry UN?

I think so, but there is not enough time to produce a GE as I am focus on producing GS asap. The solution is to get it with luck from Educated Elite SP.

 

[Kamino]

some of the stuff Kamino mentions sounds very odd (lucky?) to me - ai never goes past 150gold for me (early on not past 100g) - cant imagine how it gets 250g to trade a lux for.

That's really strange. They often offer me 250g.

Also how querry marble without massonary?

You misread the timeline. T24 Masonry. T28 marble quarry (5 turns).

wasting 4 sp into patronage tree and still doing that good ...

6 SP. I used all the patronage tree. It's a key in the strategy. I don't understand. Could you show me a better way to SP ?

 

[Kamino]

Well that is the problem about Civ 5. Its too luckbased compared to civ 4, partly because the gameplay has been simplified soo much, and partly because this game was on fast speed. With less than 120 turns to play good huts are just very powerful to get, and discovering all AIs early is also extremelly useful.
Beta 1 was also very dependant on various luck factors during the game.

It's not exactly luck as I have started a lot of games until I got something great. It's a matter of statistics and time. And maybe know-how.

 

[Igmod]

I wonder can you spend a GE to hurry UN?

You can but it just reduces the turns (~42 to 15 for me). It won't build it in one turn.


Oh and I VERY much appreciate the detailed walkthrough Kamino. Too often I follow the pro guidance but can't tell if my timing is on track. This helps a lot.

 

[tommynt]

well worst about the land thing is marble ... - sure u CAN play without but not if u want do a "perfect" game

 

[Rokklagið]

I have a question about Siam.

The UA description says "Food and culture from friendly city states increased 50%"

Does the "friendly" word refer to friend or allied status? Because I didn't notice any difference between friendly, nautral, irrational or hostile personalities.