civ1 GOTM?

[GoldBerg]

"WATERBRiDGE" CHEAT
This is unrealistic, but of course this game isn’t meant to be realistic in the first place, so maybe it could be allowed. I don’t know how powerful this cheat is. If it totally changes the balance in the game it should not be allowed, but if it is possible to do almost as good without using it I have no real issue with allowing it. I am undecided on this one.

clearly: LEGAL
(visible anyway)
the only gain is one more trade point at water.
the effort to reach this is immense: at least 1 settler and 1 ship, field by field.
first road ( with settler cheat ) 2 turns back and forth
second railroad bridge building 4 turns back and forth.

much work for just 1 science/trade point more after the invention of railroad (not earlier) - uh?

 

[GoldBerg]

BRIBING CITIES
The AI rarely does this, so buying cities all the time seems a little unfair, but again it is not our fault that the AI is stupid, so I think this one should be allowed too.

...

very interesting point.
my favourite game.

besides it is very expensive to buy a city of "10" at prince or empereor level.

in a well-developed tribes country a city of "10" size (americans at 1000 AD)
easily costs 3500 GOLD.
your temper/sentiment may decide if it's 'more human'
to smash a nuclear on a city and walk in with tanks.
or use 10 tanks and destroy the whole city to take it.
i prefer to BUY it if i can pay the price.


get real: of course you can buy a city,

plunder your fort knox
and go to tuka-tuka land
and buy tuka city #2 from the warlord (you can't buy a capital city!)

the warlord will agree happily and party the rest of his life in las vegas

his people will be happy because 'you' will build a marketplace, city walls, library, a bank, caravan routes and a colloseum next.
that's (i would 'say') TOTAL REALISTiC...

LEGAL.

 

[trada]

POPULATiON by special time / date of game -
will ALWAYS work.
...and it is a CONSTRUCTiVE goal of the game!!!
don't forget this, conquerors/destroyers/fast-as-possible-end-of-the-gamers!!!

Right. *considers going into the business of selling aquaducts*

 

[Irish Caesar]

Excellent map!

 

[Pikachu]

this is a REAL problem part.

spaceship -
won't work - if it's too hard just 2 of 8 players will show a result

complete conquest (CONQUER THE WORLD) scene -
just work with a more easy scenario, if it's too hard just 2 of 8 players will show a result

POPULATiON by special time / date of game -
will ALWAYS work.
...and it is a CONSTRUCTiVE goal of the game!!!
don't forget this, conquerors/destroyers/fast-as-possible-end-of-the-gamers!!!

whole tech tree
if it's too hard just 2 of 8 players will show a result

I think you should be able to show a result even if you fail to achieve the goal. Players who fail to win a game could use the game at the time they loose as their results. In games where fastest [something] is the goal the secondary goal should be to survive as long as possible. So the losers will be in the score list too, and use the year they lost as their score.

By the way, highest [something] by a specific year will not work better if the end year is set too late. Not everybody will be able to survive until 1750 or whatever. Eh well, maybe on prince, but certainly not on king or emperor. That shouldn’t be a problem though. Those who do not survive until the specified year could use the maximum [something] they achieved in the game.

"SAVEGAME" CHEAT

you won't see the use (if not over-excessivly used)
so i would say: everybody uses this anyway and you can't force other people not to use it.

…

work.
stupid WORK.

That’s my point. It is just stupid work, and it is boring. If the majority of players don’t want to use it, it shouldn’t be legal to use it. Why should all of us be encouraged to do all this stupid work just because some idiot out there might do it even if it is illegal? I don’t think difficulties in policing should be relevant to if a cheat is allowed or not. Let’s just trust people’s honesty! And if someone cheats anyway, so what? I would rather play a fun game and loose to a cheater, than play a boring game where cheating is allowed and win (but then again, I wouldn’t have a chance to win anyway).

everybody over-using "SAVEGAME" CHEAT will pretend that he/she was just lucky.
you won't see if he/she has done it or not.
everybody who don't use it will (probably) lose.

forget about to 'say' this is a NO-NO -
you can't say if somebody did use it
so it's more 'realistic' to inform people about the cheat and declare it LEGAL.

Why not just say NO-NO? Let’s encourage everybody to play this game in a fun way! I suppose most of us are honest enough to play by the rules we agree on.

"WATERBRiDGE" CHEAT

clearly: LEGAL

…

much work for just 1 science/trade point more after the invention of railroad (not earlier) - uh?

I see. Then I see no problems with allowing this one.

BRIBING CITIES

TOTAL REALISTiC...

I don’t think any part of civ is realistic

But bribing cities is a part of the game and should be allowed. It is a shame that the AI don’t do it too. I always feel a little guilty when doing stuff the AI cannot do .

 

[Pikachu]

A cheat/exploit I forgot yesterday:

SHIP HOPPING
When transporting units with ships you can move the first ship as far as it can go in one turn, and if another ship is waiting there it will take the units with it when it starts to move. Then you can move that ship as far as it can go in one turn too and repeat the process as long as you wish. This way you can transport troops infinitely far away in only one turn if you have enough ships in the right positions.

This cheat I have used occasionally. It does take a lot of ships (and planning) to make use of this, and I don’t think it gives too much advantage, so I guess we should allow this?

 

[akaneda]

plz dont forget to answer the questions!!!!

please all answer that questions as fast as possible and post ur answers here


a.) did u already play the GOTM/GOTQ?

b.) will u play the GOTM/GOTQ in the future?

c.) which difficulty lvl do u prefer? please make a list from which u prefer most to less!

d.) do u like games that last till a specific year? if yes which one would u prefer?

e.) which goals for the game would u prefer (spaceship, complete conquest, population, whole tech tree, ...)? make a list ...

f.) do u cheat when just playing for yourself ( which ones)?

g.) would u rather say competition with or without cheating?

h.) which name would u suggest for the thread (i propose that question, because i just found the gotm by accident)

thats all and please answer them as fast as possible. of course i will post the results!!

to the question with the settler cheat, ur right. im managing about 35 settlers EVERY turn. its terrifying!! i belief i will stop that cheat for the rest of the game and competitions. what belongs to the rest of pikachus suggestions and goldbergs comments i totaly agree!!

 

[akaneda]

this is a REAL problem part.

spaceship -
won't work - if it's too hard just 2 of 8 players will show a result

complete conquest (CONQUER THE WORLD) scene -
just work with a more easy scenario, if it's too hard just 2 of 8 players will show a result

POPULATiON by special time / date of game -
will ALWAYS work.
...and it is a CONSTRUCTiVE goal of the game!!!
don't forget this, conquerors/destroyers/fast-as-possible-end-of-the-gamers!!!

whole tech tree
if it's too hard just 2 of 8 players will show a result

thats what the poll should be for. to let the players descide which goal they like. maybe even those who dont have a chance to win the competition would like to try.

 

[GoldBerg]

... ...
bribing cities is a part of the game and should be allowed. It is a shame that the AI don’t do it too. I always feel a little guilty when doing stuff the AI cannot do .

within 1.000 civDOS games i did see that once an INDiAN and once an ENGLiSH diplomat
did 1.) bribe a city
and
2.) bribe a unit.

(so) it seems to happen from time to time - but it's so long ago that it is like lucid dream to me nowadays (maybe even amiga 2000 days back in 1992).

 

[GoldBerg]

... ...
I don’t think any part of civ is realistic
... ...

it's a very well balanced / planned 'comic-strip' of economical, ecological, political and scientifical balances in proposition to world history.
it's imho in it's shortages nearly perfect realistic.

isn't it strange / well-planned
that if you play with EARTH map at ~Prince without cheats
the game's
history / inventions / political
changes happen in the same times like 'our world's history'...?

a very welldone job.

 

[Dack]

within 1.000 civDOS games i did see that once an INDiAN and once an ENGLiSH diplomat
did 1.) bribe a city
and
2.) bribe a unit.

(so) it seems to happen from time to time - but it's so long ago that it is like lucid dream to me nowadays (maybe even amiga 2000 days back in 1992).

I'm sure that you haven't seen one in a CIV DOS game. The game does use the "Resident of ... admire the prosperity of ..." to changes city allegiance.
Again I am willing to be corrected on this one. If anyone ever sees a caravan or diplomat (non barbarian) save that game immediately and I will build a cairn to you.

if we would be (uber-?)correct we would have to demand ALL AUTOMATiC SAVEGAMES (3000 BC 2000 BC 1000 BC 0 AD 1000 AD 1500 AD 1750 AD)
to agree if a very good result bases on a correct played game!

Here I agree all submissions should be made in zip form with all the auto save games. One should remember to put the 3000bc game aside so that it won't be written over. Not being fiercely competitive and playing for the love of the game, I think allot of the entertainment of this will be seeing how others play the game which will reveal itself somewhat in the trail of autosave files.

A cheat/exploit I forgot yesterday:
SHIP HOPPING
... This way you can transport troops infinitely far away in only one turn if you have enough ships in the right positions.
... so I guess we should allow this?

This is not cheat but the way the game is played. It is not some programming error like the settler cheat.


As for the difficulty level:
I myself only play at the King level, but I understand that everyone likes to play at the level they are happiest at. I not sure how that will be reconciled. I guess the submitter of the game will have to determine the level.

Each GOTM should have a non changing cutoff date for submissions established when the game is introduced.
Reasonable people will disagree but I think a monthly game is the correct time period. People who can't dedicate time to play a game a month are not going to do it in any amount of time. I maybe wrong. My guess is that your going to get 5 or 6 players at the most.



I suggest reading the CIV II GOTM threads.
I think we should have a codify set of rules in the form the CIV II players have.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=375865&postcount=1

 

[Tenochtitlan]

I'm sure that you haven't seen one in a CIV DOS game. The game does use the "Resident of ... admire the prosperity of ..." to changes city allegiance.
Again I am willing to be corrected on this one. If anyone ever sees a caravan or diplomat (non barbarian) save that game immediately and I will build a cairn to you.

Does this count?

 

[Dack]

Does this count?

ZIP up the save game real quick. MAP and SVE file.
I sure your are playing with autosave so send every one of the files.

A thorough examination will reveal if it counts.

 

[Tenochtitlan]

This is the only save I have for that game
which is at about 40 ad
Because it is a relatively old game

 

[Pikachu]

what belongs to the rest of pikachus suggestions and goldbergs comments i totaly agree!!

Huh? GoldBerg and I disagree on a few things, so how can you totally agree with both of us? That’s weird!

isn't it strange / well-planned
that if you play with EARTH map at ~Prince without cheats
the game's
history / inventions / political
changes happen in the same times like 'our world's history'...?

You must not have paid attention in history class...

SHIP HOPPING

This is not cheat but the way the game is played.

But the AI doesn’t do it. I think everything the AI cannot do can be considered exploits. I think it should be allowed, but it is worth discussing. Since the human player already has the enormous advantage of having a brain, it is a little unfair that the human player in addition can use features the AI cannot use.

Besides, I suppose expert players use the exploits more than mediocre players, so disallowing some exploits may reduce the gap in skill levels here. Just a though.

Reasonable people will disagree but I think a monthly game is the correct time period. People who can't dedicate time to play a game a month are not going to do it in any amount of time.

So you think agreeing with you is unreasonable?

I think once a month would be a little too much for me. Once a quarter of the year suits me better. You have to remember that most of the civ1 players of today are old and cannot handle having that much fun every month anymore.

I suggest reading the CIV II GOTM threads.
I think we should have a codify set of rules in the form the CIV II players have.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=375865&postcount=1

That reminds me about another exploit:

BOMBER STACK
I haven’t tested this much, but I think that if you put a bomber over a stack of land units, the AI cannot attack that stack.

This goes totally against the spirit of civ1 where stacking elsewise is heavily discouraged. On the other hand, sometimes the natural place to let a bomber end it’s turn happens to be the same tile as a land unit occupies, and if that should be legal it has to be legal to do it as a tactical maneuver too. So I think this must be allowed.

Does this count?

Nice screenshot! I have heard rumors that AI diplomats have been observed. Thank you for letting me see it with my own eyes

 

[Tenochtitlan]

Nice screenshot! I have heard rumors that AI diplomats have been observed. Thank you for letting me see it with my own eyes

I've seen hundreds of them
Oh and sometimes there's a certain spot they constantly re-appear from every 2-3 turns. That was the case for a few hundred years for this screenshot, as was in some other games.

 

[trada]

Never seen one in my civ career.

 

[GoldBerg]

... ...
BOMBER STACK
I haven’t tested this much, but I think that if you put a bomber over a stack of land units, the AI cannot attack that stack.
... ...

i LOVE this.
remember you need lots of money,
lots of tech,
lots of bomber units
to do this
with a larger area.

maybe you need up 6 bombers per turn 'in the air'
to hinder the AI units 'to come over'.
another 6 bombers had to be in their positions in the nearest city/cities
to go back into that same positions when the others need to go back to cities-'airfields'.
it happens often that you press the wrong key from time to time and you lose a bomber.

it's simply tactics,
of course EVERYBODY -who is able to do so- should protect his game,
his virtual cities and units
with -for example- bomber stacking.

pikachu -
it looks like
you like to hinder people to use tactics you know about and use yourself, don't you?

i NOW want to see ALL AUTO-SAVEGAMES before i accept ANY result of your game(s)...

 

[GoldBerg]

I've seen hundreds of them
Oh and sometimes there's a certain spot they constantly re-appear from every 2-3 turns. That was the case for a few hundred years for this screenshot, as was in some other games.

although i did play up to ~1.000 games for sure too
the last 13 years,
i just did see AI diplomats 'in action' (bribe city, units, steal tech in city) a very few times (2 times i know it for sure to be exactly, other events i probably 'did lost in mind / rememberance(?)') -

but i remember how i was WHEN it did happen.

so dack - simply believe us.
i promise i will savegame and deliver savegame when it happens again next time.

 

[GoldBerg]

btw.
r we ready with the ruleset now?

is somebody here willin'n'able
to resume the ya-ya's and no-no's -
or/and
to install that 20 polls for the open questions to be real democrats?