You can put me too my mail is igor.t@blic.net
-
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Civ2 Source Code Petition
- Thread starter yaroslav
- Start date
Everything you could possibly want in Civ. Of course, the more the changes deviate from the original code and the more complex they are, the longer it will take to implement them. (Think that it's going to be players doing all this stuff when they have some spare time, not paid programmers working towards a deadline so if this thing does get realeased, don't expect any big changes immediately--probably just bug fixes first so that the program as is runs perfectly, then more MP features, then tweaks to the interface and so on towards greater and greater complexity in the form of different 'mods' or one big combined effort.)
Although it will take a while following release, Civ2 is a world-renown game and people are still buying it (if they can find it). Many people have switched to Civ3 simply because it offeres more sophisitacted game features but they're stuck with it the way it is. If the Civ2 program can be altered (e.g. adding a unit bombardment feature--a big feature in Civ3), then the game will continue to evelove and, unlike Civ3, offers fast clean gameplay that pretty much any system can run.
So in answer to the rest of your question: yes, it means that the 255 unit limit, 32,767 map square limit, being able to set the number of frames for ToT's unit sprites, adding the number of available unit slots (possibly even eliminating the limit altogether), limit on the number of tech slots, pretty much anything. Of course, you could potentially mod the Civ2 engine into an FPS but that would take forever and it would actually be easier to start from scratch. The point of all this as I see it is to remove the flaws from, and then enhance the world's favourite strategy game.
Where modding is concerend, one of the first things that I would do is have the program search for ALL files in scenario folders. So for example, you could place your own .dll files in your scenario's folder without having to overrite the default .dll files in the main directory.
BTW, aside from dealing with Atari (Infograms), has anyone thought of contacting Brian Reynolds, Jeffery L. Briggs or even Sid Meier for that matter? They're not so high and mighty that that they wouldn't be interested in this project (i.e. one that's doing what they would have but could not under the restraints of deadlines and budget when working under Microprose).
I think that some real work should be done well before before 2006 otherwise people will just get tired of waiting and Civ4 will have hit the market by then (with even higher requirements than Civ3 of course) so that will take away some of the audience as from what I hear Civ4 will be far superior to Civ3 both in design and moddability.
[What makes this project worthwhile is the fact that anyone can play Civ2 pretty much anywhere in the world at this point and the entire game is so small that many Civ3 mods are actually bigger that it, so people will have no trouble downloading it. MP is also very fast and modding is a sinch. And the program could probably be made to be far more efficient.]
Contact me if you need any help (although you probably know as much as I do if not more, but strength in numbers y'know).
TemporalAnomaly
Timelord
I bought that and it was my introduction to Civ II.warpstorm said:
It had:
Basic Civ II (Best game ever)
Risk (Great fun)
Age of Epires I Gold (Old)
Majesty (Utter Crap)
// Oh, I want in (sent E-mail)
happy_Alex
Happiness set to 11
I saw civ2 for sale in a computer games shop in Wood Green today...
Which one?
Does it really matter that you can occasionally find it?
CTP is younger than Civ2, is also on sale in some places and that source code has been released.
With Civ3 out let's face it, people play Civ2 for the scens mostly now. That means modding. In other words, Civ2 is being bought mainly for the engine, not the content.
Even if the source code is released, people will still buy Civ2 only they will be able to get modified versions of it to suit their tastes (as opposed to simply DLing scens that are completely dependant on the original program with all its bugs and unecessary limitations).
And quite frankly, it's old and outdated. The reason for wanting to mod the code is that you can make the good better and get rid of the bad, while still being able to play Civ2.
To anyone who cares:
I'm trying out different ways of putting together a realistic mock-up of what the game file could look like if changed to what players want. I'll post it once I get the Rules part done (I kept everything as close to the vanilla Civ2 as possible but the new options are there). <I gotta tell ya, if this happens it'll be a modders wet dream--not to mention making for a great new Civ2.>
Does it really matter that you can occasionally find it?
CTP is younger than Civ2, is also on sale in some places and that source code has been released.
With Civ3 out let's face it, people play Civ2 for the scens mostly now. That means modding. In other words, Civ2 is being bought mainly for the engine, not the content.
Even if the source code is released, people will still buy Civ2 only they will be able to get modified versions of it to suit their tastes (as opposed to simply DLing scens that are completely dependant on the original program with all its bugs and unecessary limitations).
And quite frankly, it's old and outdated. The reason for wanting to mod the code is that you can make the good better and get rid of the bad, while still being able to play Civ2.
To anyone who cares:
I'm trying out different ways of putting together a realistic mock-up of what the game file could look like if changed to what players want. I'll post it once I get the Rules part done (I kept everything as close to the vanilla Civ2 as possible but the new options are there). <I gotta tell ya, if this happens it'll be a modders wet dream--not to mention making for a great new Civ2.>
Harry Tuttle
Scenario League Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2003
- Messages
- 311
Yoshi,
I'll post the petition letter that I posted over at Apolyton here in this thread so that everyone can see what's been added. I'll get to it tonight.
I'll post the petition letter that I posted over at Apolyton here in this thread so that everyone can see what's been added. I'll get to it tonight.
Harry Tuttle
Scenario League Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2003
- Messages
- 311
Pablostuka over at Apolyton has been in contact with Yaroslav. He's been really busy with his job, traveling around the world fixing things. Also, it is a bilateral petition with no one really in charge so the letter is totally open to editing. Someone had to start it so I wrote up a piece and have been changing it as suggestions get posted. I'll post it in about 3 hours when I get home.
Harry Tuttle
Scenario League Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2003
- Messages
- 311
Here it is:
The letter:
Dear Atari,
This petition seeks to gain permission from you, the Civilization II/Sid Meier's Civilizaton II holders, for the release of the Civilization II source code. We present this petition to you in all good faith, as Civilization II fans, as loyal Civilization game franchise followers, and ultimately Civilization game purchasers.
For the past 9 years the computer game Civilization II has been on the market throughout the world and for 7 years Civilization II: Multiplayer Gold Edition has been on the market throughout the world.
During this time Civilization II has enthralled millions with its addicting game play, its ease of use, and ultimately its adaptability to modifications. Since its release it has gained a following like no other game ever released. Even today, many years past the release of Civilization, there are ### (I want to say 5 main ones, but I know their are more smaller individual run sites, please post their addresses) websites around the world devoted to the game and its predecessors. No one can deny Civilization 2 is a game that will forever be revered as a classic.
As with any game that has brought so much pleasure to its fans we, the members of Apolyton.net, Civfanatics.com, The Civ 2 Creative Design Forums, Civ.Org.pl, and the German Civilization 2 Site seek to learn more about the game which has enthralled us for nearly a decades worth of time. We, in full knowledge and consent, ask you to release the source code of Civilization II to us, the public, for use in modification for non-financial means. We only seek to better and modify the game that has been enjoyed for so long so that we can continue enjoying it, and all the Civilization genre games, including the upcoming the fourth so named Civilization game.
Again, we do not seek to gain financially from this petition nor will we tolerate those who seek to gain from any such release. We are committed to making the source code open to all, at no cost, so that others can continue to enjoy a game that has opened the world of gaming to so many.
As Civilization fans we realize that the source code to Civilization II may still be viewed as commercially viable to any such producer and distributor of the game. To those that seek to gain from the further commercial release of Civilization II we present the following arguments. Please realize that these arguments are presented in good faith, as we do not wish to prod anyone to give up the source code against their will or the will of the ultimate decision makers in the process. We only seek to present an argument and, hopefully, receive a viable argument as to the opposite of our goal.
The arguments for the release of the Civilization II source code.
1) Due to the recent release of Windows XP and the Operating System's penchant for not working well with old games, Civilization II has been increasingly troublesome to play. Major modifications to the root directory are required to run the game, causing problems for any Civ2/Windows XP user. As is evident, Windows XP has become the dominant Operating System for all new computers. Thus, Civilization II has become an obsolete game.
2) In a market dominated by 3 dimensional polygon games, graphic heavy "shooters", and game console like games, the idea of playing a game like Civilization II has been lost to many consumers. Very few people want to pay for a game that was originally released in 1997. Thus, Civilization II has become uninteresting to the vast majority of computer game consumers.
3) With the release of Civilization 3, Civilization 3 "add-ons", and the future release of Civilization 4, Civilization II has been passed by as the leading game in the genre of strategy/empire building. Only a few adamant players across the world have chosen to play Civilization II, not enough to be any sort of viable consumer base.
4) An avenue sometimes overlooked is the ability for "gamers" to improve a game. Many people talk about what they want in a game like Civilization II but few actually bother to bring their thoughts to fruition. With the release of the source code the small Civilization II gaming community could improve upon the game, outlining what they, the hardcore gamers, want in a strategy/empire building game. Needless to say, this opens up an opportunity for any future producers of games in the strategy/empire building genre to learn what gamers really want. The signers of this petition are the types of gamers that know what they want and tend to set a precedent for other like minded gamers. Through the exploration of the internal workings of the Civilization II source code future designers can discover what exactly consumers desire from their strategy/empire building game. The opportunity for designers to learn, improve, and ultimately produce a better selling game is now.
5) Goodwill, is an important part of retaining customers. In any industry it is important to reinforce the idea that producers want to satisfy their customers. Any business owner knows that a happy customer is a return customer and that a happy customer will spread the word of a well meaning company. We, the signers of this petition, believe that releasing the source code to Civilization II is the perfect opportunity to build brand loyalty among Civilization fans. A great many game consumers like the idea that a game producer is out to not only create and sell a agame, but to also entertain and satisfy their customers. Remember, a happy constumer, is a return customer.
6) Building a following among fans creates an aura of infallibility. Fans of any game will ultimately be apt to continue purchasing any following games in a series. The "group think" among fans of any product, is that any future releases can only improve. With the release of the Civilization II source code many fans will view with affection later releases of the series, facilitating higher sales for the future game. Marketing does not only entail reinforcing the image of the latest game, but reinforcing the image of the entire series. The release of the source code will ignite a new interest in strategy/empire building games, creating a clamor for games of the same ilk.
Letter ends here, open to additions
The Link to where the letter was origianlly posted along with the Apolyton thread - http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115096
EDIT: Grammar
The letter:
Dear Atari,
This petition seeks to gain permission from you, the Civilization II/Sid Meier's Civilizaton II holders, for the release of the Civilization II source code. We present this petition to you in all good faith, as Civilization II fans, as loyal Civilization game franchise followers, and ultimately Civilization game purchasers.
For the past 9 years the computer game Civilization II has been on the market throughout the world and for 7 years Civilization II: Multiplayer Gold Edition has been on the market throughout the world.
During this time Civilization II has enthralled millions with its addicting game play, its ease of use, and ultimately its adaptability to modifications. Since its release it has gained a following like no other game ever released. Even today, many years past the release of Civilization, there are ### (I want to say 5 main ones, but I know their are more smaller individual run sites, please post their addresses) websites around the world devoted to the game and its predecessors. No one can deny Civilization 2 is a game that will forever be revered as a classic.
As with any game that has brought so much pleasure to its fans we, the members of Apolyton.net, Civfanatics.com, The Civ 2 Creative Design Forums, Civ.Org.pl, and the German Civilization 2 Site seek to learn more about the game which has enthralled us for nearly a decades worth of time. We, in full knowledge and consent, ask you to release the source code of Civilization II to us, the public, for use in modification for non-financial means. We only seek to better and modify the game that has been enjoyed for so long so that we can continue enjoying it, and all the Civilization genre games, including the upcoming the fourth so named Civilization game.
Again, we do not seek to gain financially from this petition nor will we tolerate those who seek to gain from any such release. We are committed to making the source code open to all, at no cost, so that others can continue to enjoy a game that has opened the world of gaming to so many.
As Civilization fans we realize that the source code to Civilization II may still be viewed as commercially viable to any such producer and distributor of the game. To those that seek to gain from the further commercial release of Civilization II we present the following arguments. Please realize that these arguments are presented in good faith, as we do not wish to prod anyone to give up the source code against their will or the will of the ultimate decision makers in the process. We only seek to present an argument and, hopefully, receive a viable argument as to the opposite of our goal.
The arguments for the release of the Civilization II source code.
1) Due to the recent release of Windows XP and the Operating System's penchant for not working well with old games, Civilization II has been increasingly troublesome to play. Major modifications to the root directory are required to run the game, causing problems for any Civ2/Windows XP user. As is evident, Windows XP has become the dominant Operating System for all new computers. Thus, Civilization II has become an obsolete game.
2) In a market dominated by 3 dimensional polygon games, graphic heavy "shooters", and game console like games, the idea of playing a game like Civilization II has been lost to many consumers. Very few people want to pay for a game that was originally released in 1997. Thus, Civilization II has become uninteresting to the vast majority of computer game consumers.
3) With the release of Civilization 3, Civilization 3 "add-ons", and the future release of Civilization 4, Civilization II has been passed by as the leading game in the genre of strategy/empire building. Only a few adamant players across the world have chosen to play Civilization II, not enough to be any sort of viable consumer base.
4) An avenue sometimes overlooked is the ability for "gamers" to improve a game. Many people talk about what they want in a game like Civilization II but few actually bother to bring their thoughts to fruition. With the release of the source code the small Civilization II gaming community could improve upon the game, outlining what they, the hardcore gamers, want in a strategy/empire building game. Needless to say, this opens up an opportunity for any future producers of games in the strategy/empire building genre to learn what gamers really want. The signers of this petition are the types of gamers that know what they want and tend to set a precedent for other like minded gamers. Through the exploration of the internal workings of the Civilization II source code future designers can discover what exactly consumers desire from their strategy/empire building game. The opportunity for designers to learn, improve, and ultimately produce a better selling game is now.
5) Goodwill, is an important part of retaining customers. In any industry it is important to reinforce the idea that producers want to satisfy their customers. Any business owner knows that a happy customer is a return customer and that a happy customer will spread the word of a well meaning company. We, the signers of this petition, believe that releasing the source code to Civilization II is the perfect opportunity to build brand loyalty among Civilization fans. A great many game consumers like the idea that a game producer is out to not only create and sell a agame, but to also entertain and satisfy their customers. Remember, a happy constumer, is a return customer.
6) Building a following among fans creates an aura of infallibility. Fans of any game will ultimately be apt to continue purchasing any following games in a series. The "group think" among fans of any product, is that any future releases can only improve. With the release of the Civilization II source code many fans will view with affection later releases of the series, facilitating higher sales for the future game. Marketing does not only entail reinforcing the image of the latest game, but reinforcing the image of the entire series. The release of the source code will ignite a new interest in strategy/empire building games, creating a clamor for games of the same ilk.
Letter ends here, open to additions
The Link to where the letter was origianlly posted along with the Apolyton thread - http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115096
EDIT: Grammar
Great.
I'm reading it now.
Thanks for witing it. (I thought I was starting to worry that I would have to writie it for a while there.
)
BTW: "He's been really busy with his job, traveling around the world fixing things." Is he a philanthropist or something?
I'm reading it now.
Thanks for witing it. (I thought I was starting to worry that I would have to writie it for a while there.
)BTW: "He's been really busy with his job, traveling around the world fixing things." Is he a philanthropist or something?
Harry Tuttle
Scenario League Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2003
- Messages
- 311
yoshi said:Great.
BTW: "He's been really busy with his job, traveling around the world fixing things." Is he a philanthropist or something?
Hahahaha. He'll love that one. Umm, no, he's an engineer for Motorola (I think).
happy_Alex
Happiness set to 11
Great job.
I was having a ponder about this. If the source code were to be released, how would the civ2 community go about its modifiaction? It seems a bit silly to have lots of people working randomly on it.
Perhaps we could all vote on the improvements to be made and then work could be distributed to contributors. For example, I know only a little about coding, but can handle 3d graphics programs. So perhaps tasks could be matched to abilities.
??
I was having a ponder about this. If the source code were to be released, how would the civ2 community go about its modifiaction? It seems a bit silly to have lots of people working randomly on it.
Perhaps we could all vote on the improvements to be made and then work could be distributed to contributors. For example, I know only a little about coding, but can handle 3d graphics programs. So perhaps tasks could be matched to abilities.
??
Joeb WK
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2004
- Messages
- 1,122
Yep I would hope somthing like that would happen but I think people would just work hap-hazardly on what they liked. Ive heard on the CTP forum though that the Civ2 source code will probably never be released as apparantley no one has kept it I dont know If this is true or not.
BTW, I reccomend sending the petion by mail. This is do to the large number of anti-solicitor(spam) blocks, particularly automated programs, avalible for email.
Ofcourse there is no harm in sending it by both mail and email.
Ofcourse there is no harm in sending it by both mail and email.
Harry Tuttle
Scenario League Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2003
- Messages
- 311
Apparently the Civ2 rights still rest with Infogrames. Only the Civ4 franchise/license was sold, which would affect new versions.
As posted by CapTVK at Poly:
From
http://pc.ign.com/articles/568/568768p1.html?fromint=1
quote:
Civilization Sold
Infogrames unloads the franchise -- but to whom?
November 24, 2004 - European developer and publisher Infogrames mentioned in its first-half 2004/2005 financial report that the company sold the Civilization franchise. The sale resulted in a capital gain of 15.5 million euros (in excess of 20 million USD) for Infogrames.
The Civilization series of turn-based strategy games, created by Sid Meier, is one of the most recognized and acclaimed PC gaming franchises. The next title in the series, Civilization IV, is under development at Firaxis Games, Sid Meier's development company.
Though the identity of the franchise's new owner has not yet been disclosed, our sources were able to clarify the situation somewhat:
"Infogrames (parent company for Atari) has sold the rights to Civ IV. Atari however will continue to hold the publishing and distribution rights to all previously released Civilization games and expansion packs through October 2005."
No release date for Civilization IV has been announced, and it is unclear how the sale may affect the sequel's release. As more information emerges, rest assured we'll be back to let you know.
-- David Adams
As posted by CapTVK at Poly:
From
http://pc.ign.com/articles/568/568768p1.html?fromint=1
quote:
Civilization Sold
Infogrames unloads the franchise -- but to whom?
November 24, 2004 - European developer and publisher Infogrames mentioned in its first-half 2004/2005 financial report that the company sold the Civilization franchise. The sale resulted in a capital gain of 15.5 million euros (in excess of 20 million USD) for Infogrames.
The Civilization series of turn-based strategy games, created by Sid Meier, is one of the most recognized and acclaimed PC gaming franchises. The next title in the series, Civilization IV, is under development at Firaxis Games, Sid Meier's development company.
Though the identity of the franchise's new owner has not yet been disclosed, our sources were able to clarify the situation somewhat:
"Infogrames (parent company for Atari) has sold the rights to Civ IV. Atari however will continue to hold the publishing and distribution rights to all previously released Civilization games and expansion packs through October 2005."
No release date for Civilization IV has been announced, and it is unclear how the sale may affect the sequel's release. As more information emerges, rest assured we'll be back to let you know.
-- David Adams
Harry Tuttle
Scenario League Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2003
- Messages
- 311
Ok, I posted the updated letter on Poly last night so I will post it here too.
The Letter Version 3:
Dear Infogrames,
This petition seeks to gain permission from you, the Civilization II/Sid Meier's Civilizaton II holders, for the release of the Civilization II source code. We present this petition to you in all good faith, as Civilization II fans, as loyal Civilization game franchise followers, and ultimately Civilization game purchasers.
For the past 8 years the computer game Civilization II has been on the market throughout the world. Also, derivatives of the original game, Civilization II: Multiplayer Gold Edition and Civilization II: Test of Time, have been on the market for over 5 years.
During this time Civilization II has enthralled millions with its addicting game play, its ease of use, and ultimately its adaptability to modifications. Since its release it has gained a following like no other game ever released. Even today, many years past the release of Civilization, there are 6 websites around the world devoted to the game and its predecessors. No one can deny Civilization 2 is a game that will forever be revered as a classic.
As with any game that has brought so much pleasure to its fans we, the members of Apolyton.net, Civfanatics.com, The Creative Design Group Civ 2 Forums, Civ.Org.pl, Civilization Center, and the German Civilization 2 Site seek to learn more about the game which has enthralled us for nearly a decades worth of time. We, in full knowledge and consent, ask you to release the source code of Civilization II to us, the public, for use in modification for non-financial means. We only seek to better and modify the game that has been enjoyed for so long so that we can continue enjoying it, and all the Civilization genre games, including the upcoming the fourth so named Civilization game.
Again, we do not seek to gain financially from this petition nor will we tolerate those who seek to gain from any such release. We are committed to making the source code open to all, at no cost, so that others can continue to enjoy a game that has opened the world of gaming to so many.
As Civilization fans we realize that the source code to Civilization II may still be viewed as commercially viable to any such producer and distributor of the game. To those that seek to gain from the further commercial release of Civilization II we present the following arguments. Please realize that these arguments are presented in good faith, as we do not wish to prod anyone to give up the source code against their will or the will of the ultimate decision makers in the process. We only seek to present an argument and, hopefully, receive a viable argument as to the opposite of our goal.
The arguments for the release of the Civilization II source code.
1) Due to the recent release of Windows XP and the Operating System's penchant for not working well with old games, Civilization II has been increasingly troublesome to play. Major modifications to the root directory are required to run the game, causing problems for any Civ2/Windows XP user. As is evident, Windows XP has become the dominant Operating System for all new computers. Thus, Civilization II has become an obsolete game.
2) In a market dominated by 3 dimensional polygon games, graphic heavy "shooters", and game console like games, the idea of playing a game like Civilization II has been lost to many consumers. Very few people want to pay for a game that was originally released in 1997. Thus, Civilization II has become uninteresting to the vast majority of computer game consumers.
3) With the release of Civilization 3, Civilization 3 "add-ons", and the future release of Civilization 4, Civilization II has been passed by as the leading game in the genre of strategy/empire building. Only a few adamant players across the world have chosen to play Civilization II, not enough to be any sort of viable consumer base.
4) An avenue sometimes overlooked is the ability for "gamers" to improve a game. Many people talk about what they want in a game like Civilization II but few actually bother to bring their thoughts to fruition. With the release of the source code the small Civilization II gaming community could improve upon the game, outlining what they, the hardcore gamers, want in a strategy/empire building game. Needless to say, this opens up an opportunity for any future producers of games in the strategy/empire building genre to learn what gamers really want. The signers of this petition are the types of gamers that know what they want and tend to set a precedent for other like-minded gamers. Through the exploration of the internal workings of the Civilization II source code future designers can discover what exactly consumers desire from their strategy/empire building game. The opportunity for designers to learn, improve, and ultimately produce a better selling game is now.
5) Goodwill is an important part of retaining customers. In any industry it is important to reinforce the idea that producers want to satisfy their customers. Any business owner knows that a happy customer is a return customer and that a happy customer will spread the word of a well-meaning company. We, the signers of this petition, believe that releasing the source code to Civilization II is the perfect opportunity to build brand loyalty among Civilization fans. A great many game consumers like the idea that a game producer is out to not only create and sell a game, but to also entertain and satisfy their customers. Remember, a happy customer, is a return customer.
6) Building a following among fans creates an aura of infallibility. Fans of any game will ultimately be apt to continue purchasing any following games in a series. The "group think" among fans of any product, is that any future releases can only improve. With the release of the Civilization II source code many fans will view with affection later releases of the series, facilitating higher sales for the future game. Marketing does not only entail reinforcing the image of the latest game, but reinforcing the image of the entire series. The release of the source code will ignite a new interest in strategy/empire building games, creating a clamor for games of the same ilk.
We seek a source code released under the GNU General Public License guidelines or a lesser derivative that would allow modification of only the source code. We do not seek to make public graphics or video media from Civ2 as media would be copyrighted either under the license or by the original graphic designers. All we hope to receive is the source code so as to modify the main Civ2 executable, thereby allowing us, the modifiers and fans of Civ2, to compile the program, and to create a better, more bug free, game.
We understand the legal implications of what we are asking. Releasing the source code to any game requires full transparency as to the aims of the party wishing for the code to be released. We assure you, as loyal Civ2 fans, that we are sincere in our plea and do not wish to gain financially from the release of the code. The only gain we hope to make is in the fulfillment of making a great game even better.
Please take this letter with the names and email addresses of the petition signers to heart. We, the fans of Civ2 await your reply.
Letter ends here, open to additions
Ok folks, here's the deal. Yaroslav seems to be AWOL with his job. I don't fault him at all, I hope it's a great experience for him. Unfortunately, and hopefully Pablostuka can help remedy the situation by contacting Yaro, we need the emails of those who have sent their email addresses to Yaro exclusively.
If it is ok with everyone else (and PLEASE tell me if it's not) I would like to set up an email account to gather those addresses yet again. I can gather what I can from the various threads at all the forums, but I would like to have everyone included.
I apologize if I am overstepping my bounds, but it seems that someone needs to become the point person. ANY help is welcome.
If this is acceptable, I will begin contacting those who have posted in the threads, without a posted email, by PM.
*End post from Poly thread*
As was discussed, this is an idea I have floated. I'm putting together a list of the emails that were posted outright in the various threads around all 5 sites just in case we can't contact Yaroslav. I'm sure we can, but my recommendation is to sit and wait a bit while Pablostuka finds him and asks if he can forward stuff on. It's been a while since the list was updated, and I'm sure everyone is wondering what's going on.
So just sit tight, keep posting your emails and I can try to fill in.
The Letter Version 3:
Dear Infogrames,
This petition seeks to gain permission from you, the Civilization II/Sid Meier's Civilizaton II holders, for the release of the Civilization II source code. We present this petition to you in all good faith, as Civilization II fans, as loyal Civilization game franchise followers, and ultimately Civilization game purchasers.
For the past 8 years the computer game Civilization II has been on the market throughout the world. Also, derivatives of the original game, Civilization II: Multiplayer Gold Edition and Civilization II: Test of Time, have been on the market for over 5 years.
During this time Civilization II has enthralled millions with its addicting game play, its ease of use, and ultimately its adaptability to modifications. Since its release it has gained a following like no other game ever released. Even today, many years past the release of Civilization, there are 6 websites around the world devoted to the game and its predecessors. No one can deny Civilization 2 is a game that will forever be revered as a classic.
As with any game that has brought so much pleasure to its fans we, the members of Apolyton.net, Civfanatics.com, The Creative Design Group Civ 2 Forums, Civ.Org.pl, Civilization Center, and the German Civilization 2 Site seek to learn more about the game which has enthralled us for nearly a decades worth of time. We, in full knowledge and consent, ask you to release the source code of Civilization II to us, the public, for use in modification for non-financial means. We only seek to better and modify the game that has been enjoyed for so long so that we can continue enjoying it, and all the Civilization genre games, including the upcoming the fourth so named Civilization game.
Again, we do not seek to gain financially from this petition nor will we tolerate those who seek to gain from any such release. We are committed to making the source code open to all, at no cost, so that others can continue to enjoy a game that has opened the world of gaming to so many.
As Civilization fans we realize that the source code to Civilization II may still be viewed as commercially viable to any such producer and distributor of the game. To those that seek to gain from the further commercial release of Civilization II we present the following arguments. Please realize that these arguments are presented in good faith, as we do not wish to prod anyone to give up the source code against their will or the will of the ultimate decision makers in the process. We only seek to present an argument and, hopefully, receive a viable argument as to the opposite of our goal.
The arguments for the release of the Civilization II source code.
1) Due to the recent release of Windows XP and the Operating System's penchant for not working well with old games, Civilization II has been increasingly troublesome to play. Major modifications to the root directory are required to run the game, causing problems for any Civ2/Windows XP user. As is evident, Windows XP has become the dominant Operating System for all new computers. Thus, Civilization II has become an obsolete game.
2) In a market dominated by 3 dimensional polygon games, graphic heavy "shooters", and game console like games, the idea of playing a game like Civilization II has been lost to many consumers. Very few people want to pay for a game that was originally released in 1997. Thus, Civilization II has become uninteresting to the vast majority of computer game consumers.
3) With the release of Civilization 3, Civilization 3 "add-ons", and the future release of Civilization 4, Civilization II has been passed by as the leading game in the genre of strategy/empire building. Only a few adamant players across the world have chosen to play Civilization II, not enough to be any sort of viable consumer base.
4) An avenue sometimes overlooked is the ability for "gamers" to improve a game. Many people talk about what they want in a game like Civilization II but few actually bother to bring their thoughts to fruition. With the release of the source code the small Civilization II gaming community could improve upon the game, outlining what they, the hardcore gamers, want in a strategy/empire building game. Needless to say, this opens up an opportunity for any future producers of games in the strategy/empire building genre to learn what gamers really want. The signers of this petition are the types of gamers that know what they want and tend to set a precedent for other like-minded gamers. Through the exploration of the internal workings of the Civilization II source code future designers can discover what exactly consumers desire from their strategy/empire building game. The opportunity for designers to learn, improve, and ultimately produce a better selling game is now.
5) Goodwill is an important part of retaining customers. In any industry it is important to reinforce the idea that producers want to satisfy their customers. Any business owner knows that a happy customer is a return customer and that a happy customer will spread the word of a well-meaning company. We, the signers of this petition, believe that releasing the source code to Civilization II is the perfect opportunity to build brand loyalty among Civilization fans. A great many game consumers like the idea that a game producer is out to not only create and sell a game, but to also entertain and satisfy their customers. Remember, a happy customer, is a return customer.
6) Building a following among fans creates an aura of infallibility. Fans of any game will ultimately be apt to continue purchasing any following games in a series. The "group think" among fans of any product, is that any future releases can only improve. With the release of the Civilization II source code many fans will view with affection later releases of the series, facilitating higher sales for the future game. Marketing does not only entail reinforcing the image of the latest game, but reinforcing the image of the entire series. The release of the source code will ignite a new interest in strategy/empire building games, creating a clamor for games of the same ilk.
We seek a source code released under the GNU General Public License guidelines or a lesser derivative that would allow modification of only the source code. We do not seek to make public graphics or video media from Civ2 as media would be copyrighted either under the license or by the original graphic designers. All we hope to receive is the source code so as to modify the main Civ2 executable, thereby allowing us, the modifiers and fans of Civ2, to compile the program, and to create a better, more bug free, game.
We understand the legal implications of what we are asking. Releasing the source code to any game requires full transparency as to the aims of the party wishing for the code to be released. We assure you, as loyal Civ2 fans, that we are sincere in our plea and do not wish to gain financially from the release of the code. The only gain we hope to make is in the fulfillment of making a great game even better.
Please take this letter with the names and email addresses of the petition signers to heart. We, the fans of Civ2 await your reply.
Letter ends here, open to additions
Ok folks, here's the deal. Yaroslav seems to be AWOL with his job. I don't fault him at all, I hope it's a great experience for him. Unfortunately, and hopefully Pablostuka can help remedy the situation by contacting Yaro, we need the emails of those who have sent their email addresses to Yaro exclusively.
If it is ok with everyone else (and PLEASE tell me if it's not) I would like to set up an email account to gather those addresses yet again. I can gather what I can from the various threads at all the forums, but I would like to have everyone included.
I apologize if I am overstepping my bounds, but it seems that someone needs to become the point person. ANY help is welcome.
If this is acceptable, I will begin contacting those who have posted in the threads, without a posted email, by PM.
*End post from Poly thread*
As was discussed, this is an idea I have floated. I'm putting together a list of the emails that were posted outright in the various threads around all 5 sites just in case we can't contact Yaroslav. I'm sure we can, but my recommendation is to sit and wait a bit while Pablostuka finds him and asks if he can forward stuff on. It's been a while since the list was updated, and I'm sure everyone is wondering what's going on.
So just sit tight, keep posting your emails and I can try to fill in.
Harry Tuttle
Scenario League Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2003
- Messages
- 311
Joeb Wan Kenobi said:
Want to help me out in that regard?
EDIT: nevermind, I've corrected them.
Okay, sorry I never got back to you HT on the original letter.
Basically what I found was that, although reasonable well-written, it lacks the authoritative feel that something like this needs; take a look at some legal jargon and you'll see what I mean (the GNU thing is rather good though
).
I would suggest removing all the stuff about customers not being interested in the game, getting a good rep. and other similar comments. It should be more technical and backed with real statistics (including that e-mail list BTW).
Where the process itself is concerned, I would give Infograms flexibilitynot to much thoughso that they can put together a deal (see CTP example where Activision allowed the source code to be released on condition that the original game be purchased...or something to that effect; i.e. in this case, players must still purchase at least ONE Civ2 item--regardless of version).
The other thing that is very important is the specification of WHICH version is to be released (ToT v.1.1 preferably since its the most advanced of the three (i.e. Original, MGE and ToT).You have to find out if it still exists first though.
Another really important thing to include is the absolute indispensability of the accompanying comments (these were removed in the CTP deal because of the presence of derogatory language in the comments...or some similar dumb thing). If you dont, you will have to go through the whole code to determine whats what and that will take agesas you can see if you go to the CTP thread at Poly.
I want to emphasize the importance of a physical copy of this petition, as stated by someone earlier: you cant accidentally delete a physical copy yknow?
(Give them a physical copy of the e-mail list, in addition to the letter of petition.)
Another thing: notice my signature? The link in it to this thread has been used numerous times so I suggest you all add a similar link to your signatures and websites. I know Ive mentioned this before but Im not sure if people got it. Note that one way of getting Civ3 players interested is to post in the Civ3 forums (note that by post I mean post stuff about Civ3, not this threadthe mods will crucify you if you do otherwise trust me).
Perhaps we could start talking about how things would work if these guys release the bloody code: setting up a base now would save time later (i.e. in this group at least, whos going to do what)this is putting aside general input.
Having a clear picture of how all this will work will make things much easier.
Note that someone from Infograms will probably be checking out this and other sites to get an idea of what the real story is (i.e. anyone can put together a bunch of e-mails and write a letter but if they see work already being done it could have a minornote that I said MINORimpact on their decision).
And if Infograms says no, what have you lost except a few days-worth of work (you dont have to quit work for this)?
The holidays are coming up so I dont think this is asking too muchespecially since most of you are probably posting while at work anyway, ahem.
HT, post any questions you have about what I wrote on your letter.
Basically what I found was that, although reasonable well-written, it lacks the authoritative feel that something like this needs; take a look at some legal jargon and you'll see what I mean (the GNU thing is rather good though
).I would suggest removing all the stuff about customers not being interested in the game, getting a good rep. and other similar comments. It should be more technical and backed with real statistics (including that e-mail list BTW).
Where the process itself is concerned, I would give Infograms flexibilitynot to much thoughso that they can put together a deal (see CTP example where Activision allowed the source code to be released on condition that the original game be purchased...or something to that effect; i.e. in this case, players must still purchase at least ONE Civ2 item--regardless of version).
The other thing that is very important is the specification of WHICH version is to be released (ToT v.1.1 preferably since its the most advanced of the three (i.e. Original, MGE and ToT).You have to find out if it still exists first though.
Another really important thing to include is the absolute indispensability of the accompanying comments (these were removed in the CTP deal because of the presence of derogatory language in the comments...or some similar dumb thing). If you dont, you will have to go through the whole code to determine whats what and that will take agesas you can see if you go to the CTP thread at Poly.
I want to emphasize the importance of a physical copy of this petition, as stated by someone earlier: you cant accidentally delete a physical copy yknow?
(Give them a physical copy of the e-mail list, in addition to the letter of petition.)
Another thing: notice my signature? The link in it to this thread has been used numerous times so I suggest you all add a similar link to your signatures and websites. I know Ive mentioned this before but Im not sure if people got it. Note that one way of getting Civ3 players interested is to post in the Civ3 forums (note that by post I mean post stuff about Civ3, not this threadthe mods will crucify you if you do otherwise trust me).
Perhaps we could start talking about how things would work if these guys release the bloody code: setting up a base now would save time later (i.e. in this group at least, whos going to do what)this is putting aside general input.
Having a clear picture of how all this will work will make things much easier.
Note that someone from Infograms will probably be checking out this and other sites to get an idea of what the real story is (i.e. anyone can put together a bunch of e-mails and write a letter but if they see work already being done it could have a minornote that I said MINORimpact on their decision).
And if Infograms says no, what have you lost except a few days-worth of work (you dont have to quit work for this)?
The holidays are coming up so I dont think this is asking too muchespecially since most of you are probably posting while at work anyway, ahem.
HT, post any questions you have about what I wrote on your letter.
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