Civ3 GOTM #6 *Spoilers* Thread

Babble-On,

Here's an idea for you. I don't think you can make the others break their MPP. What you could try to do is make a MPP with the Civ you want on your side. It may cost you, but once you have it, invade the other Civ. Its pretty sneaky, but I believe it will drag the other into war with you. I know this works, because it happened to me in GOTM4. Although, I was the one dragged into war!

Good Luck.
 
In a 3 way MPP case:

Make sure the first attack of the war is against you, on your own soil. This will bring the 3rd civ in on your side. If you are the aggressor, the 3rd civ will declare war on you. You can declare war freely and not trigger any MPP's.
 
My Cultural war is really paying off now. All of the small settlements I planted on the larger continent have been snatching away cities from other civilization, at least every third or fourth turn. My total cultural value is up aroun 87,000, and my most cultured city is at about 8100. I am in the middle 1800's already in the modern age, and I am working on fusion. I managed to get my neighbor Persia to shut the "f" up by making a "Maginot" line across our border of fortresses and tanks on every square, with one little hole for them to come through (of course I have 14 tanks piled just two squares away from the funnel hole in case they still are tempted to invade with their calvalry)

On the global scene, England got cocky and has been reduced to one city on a small island near the southern part of the larger continent. Everyone is warring against everyone BUT me, thankfully. And I am peddling my luxuries to the entire world to suck them of their cash. Here is my expansion theme: I build a settler and an infantry unit and send them to a place between two enemy cities where there is still room. I settle near some grasslands and hopefully near a resource. I immediately set to build temple. On the next turn, I hurry the prodution of the temple (usually around 104 gold) and then I set to build library. By two or so turns, the city has expanded its cultural influence and pushed the borders out into the two competing civ's cities. (In essence you are pushing them to either join you, or starve) Once I build Library I try for Cathedral. usually in about ten or so turns, they flip to me unless they are a really large city. I have so far flipped about 14 cities from other civs. I even managed to take a size 12 city from the Zulus and a size 10 city from the Chinese on the main continent simply by using culture.

If I start war, it will be to either take out the Persians, or to take Berlin from the Germans (They have Shakespear Theatre and Hanging Gardens - nice additions to the rest of the Wonders I have)

I hope to submit my entry within a week. Too bad I can't just take a whole day to play it out to the end. I honestly don't think I will even make it to see 2000 because of the high culture score - I am predicting a victory by the early 1900s

This is a great builder GOTM!
 
Fantastic idea for the MPP. I have to bribe the hell out of China to get an MPP with them, and then get Persia to attack me, That way Persia will be fighting from both fronts! I love it!:goodjob:
 
Unfortunately, there is no easy way to determine your culture per turn. The game only lists your total for the whole civ on the F5 culture screen. However, instead of tediously counting up the amount from each city, you can just record your culture for one turn, then on the next turn subtract the previous turn amount to get your culture/turn. For example, if you had 70000 culture in 1850AD, and 71000 in 1852AD (the next turn), you're obviously generating 1000/turn.

In my game, I'm accumulating too MUCH culture. I just spent an HOUR having to go into each city and sell off my cultural improvements in order to avoid a cultural victory before 2050 hits. It was pretty boring :o, but goes to show how your goal for the game determines what is a "good" sign versus a "bad" one. :cool:

Another thing: when dealing out my retribution attack against China, I moved a stack of some 15 cavalry next to one of their cities. On the next turn I get the message "Hangchow wants to join our civ!" :lol: I was going to burn the city to the ground on that very turn; looks like they saw the writing on the wall! :king:
 
Well to continue from my last post. The Persians and Babylonions were completely destroyed by 700 AD. The history books have been revised to reflect that they never existed :egypt: I didnt find the other continent til 1000 ad mainly from not trying to hard i guess. When i found the rest of the civs they were hopelessly backward. I was doing some peaceful cultural intrusion and preparing to demolish China when out of the blue the english declared war on me which was a riot since my closest city to them (aside from across the water which they didnt know how to cross) was at the opposite end of the contintent. Liz had been working on this for sometime since 15 units of english swordsmen and spearmen popped out of china and it must have taken them a hundred years to get there. Anyway i destroyed the english army and got the other civs except China to attack england for a few spare luxuries. So much for that war. While they were all scrapping i declared war on china and took most of their cities before my pop went to 83% war weariness. So i made peace and filled up all the empty spots with settlers. Soon i'll be a full era ahead of the ai in tech so mopping up will be easy, then its just doing the best re score one way or another.

Addendum :

Well its not quite over but its just a matter of shuffling workers now. The world consists of India and 2 German cities ( 7 tiles from domination). May never make it to mod era since i gave up researching tech quite awhile ago so i could rush ducts/mps and hosps in overseas cities and i still have 2 techs to go. I will grow the score til my wonders flip a cultural win ( sold off everything else long ago). One interesting thing was selling the uni's and libs didnt affect research much ( maybe 4 turns). My error was not selling off my culture soon enough and i dont think i can make it to 2050 before i hit the cultural threshold. I suspect a very early cultural win would have been possible in this game since i wasnt pushing it and 1500 ad would have been possible. I tried to stay mobilized during wars just to cut down culture.

Will be interesting to see the results for other folks :egypt:
 
Yeah I meant fission. Whoops! And hey, instead of those boring future techs which are basically a generic way of saying "some kewl thing we invent twenty years from now" why don't they add in some of the things that scientists and sci-fi writers have invented? Warp technology anyone?

As for the culture thing, I calculate it the same way that the previous poster demonstrated. Keep in mind that if you don't lose any cities and if you are building more and more, your culture per turn rating will just increase as your city improvements get older and more culturally valuable. That is why it is so important to get those temples built fast and early in the game. My most culturally valuable building is the temple in Delhi...

Oh, and if you want to gauge your cultural progres, there is a pull down menu option in the histograph that allows you to show culture comparison to the other civs.
 
It's funny what the AI does when reduced to 1 city. Finally signed a peace treaty in exchange for ROP and a MPP (I have to protect England from barbarians :lol: ). England's last city is a size 1 entertainer city and has just the two rifleman left in their whole military. They were making 2 gold/turn in Monarchy (1 for science, 1 for treasury). After the war, they switched to Democracy. So now they have to pay for those 2 rifleman, so no money for science or treasury!!:lol:

They spent the 20 turns of peace building a longbowman. Peace treaty came up (forgot about it), so I didn't have the option to renew the ROP, so I had to declare war again, so I could keep my units there. So that Longbowman died when trying to attack a cavalry. They refuse to acknowlege my envoy, even though I have 20 units surrounding their city!

My score seems pitiful, but it is an easier level and smaller map than I normally play, so I have no idea if my score is good or not. My milking phase of the game hasn't been real efficient, so I'm sure SirPleb and others will beat me, but I should still get kind of high on the list.
 
Originally posted by Bamspeedy
It's funny what the AI does when reduced to 1 city.
It sure is! I've finished my game and am just writing it up, will post later. I had some very strange things happen this time with one of my captive Civs. Babylon kept wanting war, 4 times in total during the milking phase. At least 3 of those times it was a few turns after a renegotiation of peace. I haven't had that problem before, it sure is strange. I had thought that they were always reluctant to go to war within the 20 turns of a signed peace agreement but that definitely was not true this time.
 
Here's how my game went this month:

I started out thinking "Pangaea with 7 rivals - should be perfect for a tricky Diplomatic win, lots of Civs in one large area, should be able to get one of them attacked by everyone else, then save that one to vote for me at the end." (Hah!)

The start position looked great for a fast build, even better as more of the area became visible. I didn't want to hit any rival early on. So I didn't explore much at the start, I focused on building quickly and expanding. I only opened 3 goody huts - one gave a tech, the other two had barbarians.

I met Babylon and Persia and started thinking that we could be on an island. By about 1000BC I'd settled most of the starting area (east of the chokepoint) and had started the first Galley on exploring the coast. I started building in the Babylonian/Persian area, to culture squeeze Babylon's iron out of her hands and to limit her expansion. I wanted a strong Persia to attack Babylon. I gave away all tech, intending to speed the pace of research, so that I could go for the space race if my diplomatic win plan failed.

I built the Lighthouse in 470BC. (It sure was possible to build up quickly on this map!) Some turns later I met the English, and through them all the other Civs. Sure didn't look like a Pangaea map! I had a vague hope (unfounded as things turned out) of China and Japan reducing the Zulu to rubble later on when Chivalry was available. I continued freely trading for tech and giving it away. At this point (when I saw most of the map) I probably should have switched to my backup space race plan, the whole game would have gone easier. But I stubbornly kept deciding to stick to my goal of a high score Diplomatic win. :lol:

I eventually built Pyramids (no one else was making any good progress on them :) ) around 300AD to trigger a Golden Age. Shortly after that I had some Elephants ready for action. I got tired of waiting for Persia to attack Babylon. I shouldn't have tried to strengthen Persia for this, it just wasn't working. So my Elephants went off to conquer Persia.

The hordes of Immortals I'd hoped Persia would send against Babylon were a pushover, all two or three of them. :lol: I captured all towns instead of a raze+replace approach, and continued that throughout the game. India's culture was much greater than that of all other Civs combined. This approach worked fine - I didn't have even one captured city flip back during the entire game.

The second time I won a fight with an elite a great leader appeared! Since no one else was going to reduce Babylon for me, and I still (stubbornly) wanted her for my "friend" at the end, I'd decided to try to reduce Babylon to one city through a culture squeeze. This leader would allow me to move India's Palace right away. I switched one of the core cities beside Delhi to build Forbidden Palace. Once it was built I used the leader to move the Palace to be right beside Babylon's Palace. At this point Babylon had 5 cities in addition to her capitol. Over the following years I built towns at the borders of all of them and rushed cultural improvements in those towns. Despite the enormous resulting cultural pressure, it took about 150 turns before all five of the Babylonian cities had finally flipped to India.

After eliminating Persia my Elephants set sail for England. (I'd given Chivalry to the other Civs, still hoping to send Japan and China to war with their Samurai and Riders. So attacking them at this stage seemed like a bad idea. :) ) As I began the attack on England, the Zulu declared war on Germany. A long treck through the jungle, very strange. I took all of England's cities, then all of Germany's.

After taking Germany my Elephants sailed for Zululand. The Zulu were a logical target because of their fertile land, and because the only other remaining Civs had Samurai and Riders - not good units for my Elephants to fight.

Around the end of the conquest of Zululand we learned Military Tradition. I shifted production to Cavalry, upgraded the remaining Elephants, and went on to raze Japan. After Japan, China. It was a long fight due to the geography, regular minor losses of my units, and the long trip from the homeland for new units. But there was no significant resistance anywhere, the Warlord AIs were weak. I left two Chinese cities at the end, both surrounded of course. I got three more leaders during all the fighting. One was lost in a counter-attack, the other two were used to build wonders.

Then began a long milking phase. For a change of pace I decided to try a dense build on the large continent, to see if that would improve milking. I placed one city for every six or so tiles. The result was interesting. Unfortunately I don't think it reduced the amount of work in the milking phase. It did mean that there was no micro-management of entertainers (all working citizens were happy), and little building of Hospitals and Mass Transit. But because the cities grew at different speeds, many needed Marketplaces and some even needed Hospitals after all. It would have been possible to micro-manage them to avoid this, by reassigning working citizens frequently as they grew. But that looked like an even worse micro-management nightmare so I ended up not bothering, I just let them develop as they wanted to and added improvements where necessary. I do think that this approach increases score a bit. The dense cities grew to a maximum number of working citizens very quickly. And all working citizens being happy all the time sure helps.

I didn't use the dense build on the home continent. Since most cities on the home continent were not at maximum corruption, the entertainment slider could be used to make all of those citizens happy.

During the milking stage Babylon surprised me by repeatedly declaring war. I was playing this part in my usual way, renewing peace and ROP regularly, and gifting something every 10 turns. Nonetheless Babylon declared war four times! I might have missed one of my "nice" turns the first time, I'm not sure. But the other three times I am sure I'd been careful. Each of those times a recent peace agreement was in effect. In all four "wars" I just ignored Babylon, eventually got peace, and then quickly got relations back to "polite" with a few gifts. The last war was scary for my plans. I had planned to be especially nice in every turn from 2029 onward (thinking of the frequently magic number 20), with a gift every turn. But on the 2029 turn Babylon declared the fourth of these silly wars. Worse, this time I just couldn't get peace! I thought my diplomatic goal was toast. Finally in 2049 (!) they were willing to talk. I got peace, then gave them almost everything I could in an attempt to make them happy on the same turn as our peace agreement. (Gave maps, contact with China, every luxury, and a pile of tech.) Then I declared war on China and bought an alliance from Babylon for another few techs. Finished the 2049 turn with fingers crossed. Babylon voted for India instead of abstaining! Yay!

I'm at a loss to explain Babylon's aggression during the milking phase. I've had a more aggressive Civ (Germany) bottled up in a similar way, at a higher difficulty level, without having this problem. In hindsight I have two theories: 1) Babylon and India were never at war with a common foe; our relations were not as positive as I've had when I did this the other way, "saving" the friend Civ. 2) Perhaps I should not have held back world maps until the end; maybe Babylon was more aggressive about busting out because there was much of the world remaining to be explored from her perspective.

I ended up with a pretty good score, higher than I originally thought possible on this map at Warlord level. But it could have been higher. I made the whole game unnecessarily complicated, first of all by planning on my usual approach to a Diplomatic win (getting the other Civs to knock one Civ down and then "saving" it), and then by stubbornly sticking to the plan when the map and the Warlord level AI weren't really right for it. :) This map, at Warlord level, doesn't turn out to be a good case for differentiating Diplomatic wins from high score games.

I played a bit with government switching in this game since I had a big enough power margin to experiment. I tried Republic twice while starting a war instead of my usual choice of Monarchy. It didn't work well for me - war weariness set in sooner than I liked and I fell back to Monarchy both times before the war was over. So I am still not wild about Republic :lol: I also twice flipped from Monarchy to Despotism for just one turn right after the end of a war. I used that turn to rush temples in all the cities captured in the preceding war. I'm going to use that trick again in future when playing as a religious Civ, it gives quite a nice boost in the right circumstances.
 
Originally posted by Lemming
my story continued:

finally i researched chivalry, upgraded my horsemen-army to elephants and taught these babylonian immortals a lesson they'll never forget :D...just as i began my conquest i built the colossus, triggering a golden age, which speeded up things even more...



I thought the PERSIANS had immortals:rolleyes:
 
well, i just finished my game in 1930 with a cultural win :) i didnt try to avoid it, the score wouldnt be any better if i played it out...

my story:

after conquering all of the home continent i lost focus, i couldnt decide what to do next, and so i did some rather stupid stuff :D

i tried to conquer the chinese, who were really big (they conquered all the zulu land)...i invaded with 40 cavalry, took 3 cities, and signed a peace treaty...after a few turns i tried to took another city, and oh boy i had no chance :) i nearly lost all my 40 cavalry before i could make peace again, and so i decided to stay with the 3 cities...

so i gave up conquering for now, researched until i had tanks and went after the rather weak germans...at the same time all the other civs (china, japan, england) also declared war against germany and they were defeated within a few turns :D the cities were shared between the remaining civs, i ended up with 5 german cities...

in the meantime i was building lots of libraries, cathedrals, colosseums and so on, so getting a cultural victory was only a matter of time and in 1930 it was all over :)

score: 2054 lousy points ;)
 
Lemming: remember all scores will be lower in this game, because of the difficulty. Players used to monarch level can multiply their score by 2 to see what it would be on that level; it makes me feel better when I see my score ("But I'm doing good! How can it be so low..." :p)

I've been trying to estimate the winning score, and I doubt anyone will be able to exceed 8000 on this map. But someone out there will probably surprise me! :cool:
 
I'm in mid-game, have the whole map. Seems most of us can start our stories the same way: expanded, secured choke point, did something to get the Iron (I managed to build there before the Babs and Persians did so no wars necessary), then eventually secure the continent (I've only had two wars -- one to wipe out the Babs and one to wipe out the Persians. Both were swift takeovers. Nice to be on the other side of that, as opposed to those Emperor games where you don't quite keep up....:D). Kept moving Elite elephants to the front until I finally got that leader, built an FP and have the whole continent humming with production. Just added factories and hospitals to all the major cities, and build every wonder I can get my hands on.

Now what? :confused: I'm hoping that I can plow through this game quickly by maximizing my continent's production/research/money. I haven't set foot on the other continent. I have enough elephants left over to keep the other civs deferential to me, but I've been rushing city improvements and building rather than getting an army raised for an invasion. So I've put all workers on auto, got up to democracy, and make sure I get each new tech in 4 turns. I guess it's a race between whether I get a diplomatic, space race, or cultural victory, since the emphasis is on time not score.

--Yelof
 
This is my first crack at a GOTM and I'm thoroughly enjoying it! I have just recently started playing at Regent Level (2 games, no wins) so I was glad to see the Warlord Game.

Started out with a cultural victory in mind (not much of a warmonger) and like everyone else secured the bottleneck early. I had just found out that the Babs had the only Iron when the Persians declared war. I signed a military alliance with the Babs and started pumping out horsemen and spearmen. I got to their last city just as I was able to build the War Elephant and waited until I got one up there to try and trigger a 2nd GA - got the city but no GA. I settled down for about 100 yrs. after that then decided the Babs had to go - really wanted the Iron. I demanded tribute and they refused so I made quick work of them with the War Elephant.

Got my 2nd galley up north and started exploring. Sent a frigate east. No one is real happy with me - must have damaged my reputation after turning on the Babs.

It's now 1500AD and I'm sitting just under 1000 pts. with the Zule and Japanese just under 500. Everyone else is weaker. My culture points are now going through the roof. Not sure if I'll just ride out the culture victory or start sending units to the other continent.

Anyway - enjoying everyone's posts and hope to finish my game this weekend.
 
This game is giving me plenty of time to experiment with a whole slew of different approaches. I love it. Oh, and the English were decimated finally, so we are down to six civs on my map. I have managed to grow out all of my colonies on the larger continent to secure two oil sources and I am working on gaining another saltpeter source via culture squeeze. I have flipped two more cities as well to my favor.

Everyone is still fighting everyone else except me, and I will be victorious in about 10 turns because of my cultural score. I am at a total culture rating of about 88,000 or so and my capitol is at 8,400 cultural rating. I am seriously thinking of capturing the German capitol via sea rush. They are polite toward me, never attack me, never bother me, and would NEVER expect an attack from the sea! That city has two major cultural Wonders and I want them! Persia also has a really culturally powerful city that I want (Pasgardae) - The maginot line I built up is really helping out, and I have my sights set on pummelling the Persians and taking away at least four cities before my turn is over. In the mean time, I am taking away land from the other civs on the larger continent by planting settlements in the small strips of land left after a city is captured through war and them rushing cultural improvements in those cities. More territory gives a higher score, so I am hoping to do better than average for me...I doubt I will edge out Sir Pleb though! heheheh

And my tanks are scaring the hell out of everyone on the planet... that's a good thing. :-)
 
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